Why not email his boss [and the director of HR] AFTER you go dark? That way you won't have to listen to him. Will you be including a visitation schedule for him with your PBL? Does your PBL make clear he is not to come in the house? How have you planned the exchange?

Do you have a designated intermediary?

If he has a bad temper, do you have a plan if he tries to call, email or get in the house?

thanks, ML.
i was told by my lawyer that i couldn't legally change the locks..? which kind of makes sense since he's paying all the bills?

and if i can't change the locks, then if he says he's coming in i can't really stop him, right? what would i do, leave the house? i just don't see options there. unless i go ahead and change the locks anyway?

i am going to post my final PBL in a bit (still working it) - but yes, i'm telling him he can't come in the house. but i know he's going to protest, say it's too hard with the little kids to always take them out, and part of me feels bad about that..? are you saying that once i email him the PBL, even if he doesn't like the arrangement or wants to change it, i should just ignore his messages/emails? (are you sure i'm not making this too hard for them - the kids in particular?)

i do think i have someone as an interm. - mostly they just need to be available/reliable, correct?

also, my lawyer is really really concerned about exposing right now. he said that the cards are stacked in my favor, but if i expose and it costs him his job that the judge will probably really change what i would get, including no maintenance. he wants me to wait until we file (this week) and establish temporary support/maintenance before exposing, that it sets up a precedent at least that way.. since it's already been going on so long, a couple more weeks doesn't seem much worse to wait..?

"i was told by my lawyer that i couldn't legally change the locks..? which kind of makes sense since he's paying all the bills?"

OK, you need to get in writing a child support and maintenance(alimony) agreement. Because then it will be YOU paying the bills with YOUR money from child support/maintenance.

I understand the reasoning that exposure at your WH's job might cause him to lose your job and therefore your support/maintenance (until he starts work someplace else). It is a good idea to get the support/maintenance payments started and precedent set on that ASAP. (How long has your lawyer been working on that?)

However, I don't understand your lawyer's attitude that by exposing at your husband's workplace you'd be somehow doing something wrong that be held against you:

"he says it can shed light badly on me, especially if H were to lose his job (since she is his subordinate), and if that happened i might lose out on any temporary maintenance and such. that it could end up taking away my 'good position' in the legal eyes. thoughts..?"

Does your lawyer believe the adultery is acceptable or none of your business? Does your lawyer think you would only be exposing as revenge? Maybe you should consider changing lawyers? I would be worried if my lawyer said something like - worried the lawyer was maybe too much in line with the WS mentality to really back me up.

Of course the adulterers don't like it when their adultery is exposed at their workplace, and sometimes their boss acts as if they don't really care... but I've never heard of a BS being punished or even frowned upon by the courts for exposing their spouse's adultery at the workplace.

I did have some problems with my lawyer wanting me to allow my WH to cross some boundaries regarding visitation and also with wanting me to reduce what I said I needed for living expenses; my lawyer said I should be more careful to appear 'cooperative'... I didn't back down though and my lawyer figured out that if he didn't back me up I would just get a different lawyer. I basically told my lawyer that I could understand my WH's lawyer having those agendas - but not MY lawyer...

"yes, he is her art director (she basically works for him). but he is pretty beloved at the company and by his bosses - i'm afraid that I will just come off looking mean and vindictive..? that he will just feel protective of her and angry with me? will it really help if they probably already know about it anyway (at least his coworkers, maybe not his bosses i guess)"\

Even if his coworkers already know, their failure to tell you about it does not necessarily mean they approve. Most likely they are afraid to hurt you and/or think they can remain 'neutral'. Or they might even think you alreayd knwo but don't really care? (Who knows what your WH has been telling the OW and his coworkers about you and yorumarriage?) But if you talk to his coworkers and let them know that YOU KNOW and that you are fighting for your marriage, then maybe his coworkers will start to express their disapproval?

Also, once the separation paperwork establishes child support/maintenance payments, maybe one of his coworkers would be willing to expose to the human resources department? I still see nothing at all wrong with you doing it yourself, but it might be even more effective if a coworker were complaining about it because of the possibility of workplace favoritism? Maybe human resources or the boss might feel more pressure to act on the exposure if it's not 'just' the betrayed wife complaining but one of the employees?

thanks meremortal .. my lawyer definitely does not approve of A and is on my side. he is more thinking longterm - financilaly speaking. although he and i know my reasoning, that a judge *could* see it as vindictive, or hurting my children by affecting our source of income, and repsond by giving me a much less/worse settlement. i really don't think H will lose his job - but am inclined to wait just a bit and follow my lawyers suggestions. also, he did have some ways to bring it out without necessarily coming from me..

just mostly worried right now that H will not cooperate with planB, will just force his way back in..

phoenix, it is not illegal to change your locks. He may have to go to court to force entry, but it is not illegal. And I have never seen one go to the trouble to regain entry. If he wants in, he can hire a lawyer and get a court order.


Yes, Plan B is hard. Divorce is also HARD, and the goal here is to show him a taste of divorce will be like.


right, once you send the Plan B letter, you should accept no contact from him whatsoever. You are not asking for his compliance, you are TELLING him your boundaries. He doesn't get a vote on your boundaries.


Yes, all NECESSARY contact should go through them, so you will say this in your PBL. Your intermediary should act as a NEUTRAL SPAM FILTER. She should only pass on information that is VITAL, such as child care issues, financial, etc. Any ranting and ravng, etc should be deleted and not passed on. Her job is to PROTECT you from all contact so she should not even be telling you what he says or when he says it. She should only pass on vital info, such as WS will pick up kids at 10:00, etc.

But try to avoid any reasons for future contact by working out all visitation issues, etc beforehand.

Well, don't worry about it, but PREPARE for it. He will not WANT to cooperate. They never do. But he doesn't get a vote.

I think it might be a good idea to wait, however, it doesn't make sense for him to be concerned about your interests in exposing at work. If your H gets fired, it wouldn't reflect badly ON YOU, but on the affairees. If he gets fired, it would be because OF THE AFFAIR.

Nor have I ever seen it held against a BS in all the years I have been here. That simply makes no sense. That is like blaming the police because the embezzling bookkeeper lost her job for stealing because they told her boss. That would be irrational.

Again, if your H loses his job, it will be because of his affair. And you are presuming that if you don't tell them, that his employer will not be privy to his secret.

Frankly, the best thing that could happen to him and your marriage is if he DID lose his job and had to face the consequences of his behavior. By protecting him, you protect him from ever being motivated to CHANGE. More commonly known as ENABLING.

thanks ML, i am feeling more confident about this all. thankyou.
i will go ahead and change the locks.
i understand (and am on the same page) with what you're saying about disclosing the affair -- my lawyer is just saying that a judge could see that if i had not taken the action to expose, he might not have lost his job - which is a detrament to the kids. anyway, i'll talk more with him before monday.
thanks for everything, i'm going to go finalize my PBL right now..

here 'tis. would love any feedback. thankyou.
...........................
My Dear H,

It is with great sadness that I write this letter to you. It grieves me deeply to see what has happened to us and our marriage. The decision I now make is out of a necessity to spare what I can of love for you.

I apologize to you for my part in creating an environment that helped make your affair with OW possible.
I did not encourage your amazing passions and creativity well, which grieves me still. I did not slow down, let go, and enjoy you nearly enough. I am sorry for the ways I tried to control, criticize, or change you.

I have worked hard to understand and improve my own issues. I truly believe that I am now both able to meet your needs, and to be lovingly enthusiastic in the doing. I have much faith that we could create a new life for both of us that will meet your needs. But we cannot do that until you end your relationship with OW for once and for all.

I still love you but I can no longer have any contact with you under these conditions.

I have worked out details for visitation below, so that I do not need to be involved any longer. I am making the car always available for your visits, and have put together a list of possible places to take the children. I know this is difficult, but I can not see you or have you in our family home any longer while you continue your affair. Ben, this decision I make, I do not make lightly. And it is not in any way a measure meant to punish you.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with Allison, and I simply cannot be in contact with you any longer, knowing that you are with her. This has been a year of indescribable pain for me, but I have also found a strength I did not know I possessed. It is this strength and resolve that now leads me forward; for the protection of my self, my parenting, and the my love for you that is currently being eroded.

If you want to communicate about the children or any other matter, it will have to be through the intermediaries listed below.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from OW and are willing to follow the measures suggested to ensure total separation, I will be willing to discuss our future together.

Right now, my hope would be for us to rebuild our marriage. To build a new lifestyle in which we are both happy. I want to be your best friend, and to be the family we were meant to be.

I loved you the day we married and I made those promises in front of God, our family, and friends. And I continue to love you. But I will not be in contact with you again as long as you are seeing OW.

With my love,
(me)

My only suggestion: I would not call it a "relationship" with the OW, but an "affair". Don't sugar coat it for him...it is what it is.

any more feedback on my letter before i send it? it sounds a little bit, um, well - nice? considering the situation.. but that seemed to be the 'b form letter' right?

Agree about calling it an affair. I would also NOT give him a list of places to take the children. He is a big boy, he can figure it out. How will you give him the keys and the children without seeing him, though? I am not following how this is going to work.

I would change this sentence
TO: please communicate any PERTINENT matters regarding the children or our finances to XYZZZ and she will pass the message onto me. Otherwise, I respectfully request that you do not contact me except in the case of an emergency.

phoenix, it is real important that you are really prepared to GO DARK before you send this off. He will not like losing control of the situation and will try to test you to see if you are really serious. If you cave and allow him back in you will have lost your credibility and lost any leverage you might have. Are you prepared to go dark and stay that way? I am a little concerned about your committment, to be quite honest, after reading your fears about his "cooperation."

thanks. i am ready - really feeling it, and all around me are in agreement. i have felt a lot better since your responses about the locks; getting them changed is going to help my peace of mind. i'm also feeling better after getting the letter written. i have a good friend staying with me until tuesday, so i'm trying to get this done while she is here as well - for support if there's an initial blowup. i've been feeling really happy tonight thinking that tomorrow will be the last time i see him for awhile - it has been such a stress + rollercoaster. i have loved your comments about how 'i won't know' how he's feeling after this - love that! i can see the freedom there.

my main concern about going DARK is for the kids - they will be upset to not have dad in their house any more, with their things, etc. the list of places is more for their benefit - it is admittedly hard to have three small boys out and about all day. i want their time with him to be good for them.

i have lined up people/neighbors to be here to do all of the exchanges, so no - i won't be seeing him at all. that is the main benefit to me i think.

i feel strongly that his reaction to this will be an initial burst of anger, maybe followed by a few dirty financial moves, but most likely that he will just start moving hastily toward divorce. because i don't think he's ready to give her up, and he will be more concerned now with being able to get his own place, etc. but i really am okay with that, with whatever happens as a result. i am glad to be taking this action.

thankyou for all your help .. your prayers tomorrow night/monday are appreciated. .. p4

P, Plan B will protect your children from the day-to-day drama of the WS. I know you fear that your children will not have their daddy...but they don't anyway. This man is not the same man that they know as daddy. By doing Plan B, you are fighting for them to get their daddy back. He is a wayward, who spews babble to not only you but to them. He will twist truth to them and confuse them. The less time they spend with him right now, the better.

Also, you don't really want to try to help your WS have a "good" time with the kids. It is BETTER FOR YOUR KIDS if their time stresses out your WS. Why? Because that is reality. You are giving him a dose of reality. Reality is...he is losing his children. If he "gets that" soon, your children may actually get their daddy back...completely...in their home...with mommy and daddy loving each other.

You must remove yourself as his wife in all ways. That includes you trying to "help" them have a good time. He needs to know what it feels like to have to do these things on his own. This will be his reality if he truly leaves his family.

Remember, you are fighting the good fight. But it is a fight...a battle. And, sadly, you cannot prevent suffering to your children. But you can FIGHT FOR YOUR HUSBAND, FOR YOUR FAMILY, FOR YOUR CHILDREN.

You can do this, P. I will be right here with you. Your children will appreciate all that you did for them. And one day, your H may even thank you for the tough love...like mine did.

FWH wanted me to tell you that anything you do for your WH will allow him to feel as though he still has control over you and the situation.

Excellent post, SMB!!

hi .. i'm sending the letter late tonight. thanks for your comments, SMB - i really appreciate the perspective. i just talked to my oldest boys -- it went well. they are so amazing, i seriously do not know how someone can walk away from such a great family..

ANYWAY, my last main concern is that the letter seems maybe too nice? a couple friends have voiced that too.. so i wanted to ask you guys about it. it just sounds like the door will always be open for him to come back, which is not actually how i feel. but i'm not exactly setting a deadline either.. so how do i convey that this is not just me giving him more endless time..? i won't stay married to him indefinitely while he continues with her.

thanks so so much for your help.

p, you want the letter to be nice, because you need to leave a good taste in his mouth. You are not at all saying that you will sit around forever, you are saying you are ending contact with him and will consider talking about reconciliation IF he meets certain conditions. That is not pledging to give him any time or promising anything.

You are under no obligation to stay married to him while he continues his affair. So, if you decide to end it all in 2 weeks, there will be nothing stopping you. Harley recommends no more than 2 years, but your limit might be 2 months. It is all up to you.