Hey JJ!

Why the name change?

you don't have 2 answer that if you don't want 2.

-ol' 2long

Are you sure this is the girl you want to marry, 411?

I mean you are so young, with no children together, you treated her well...and now this.

If you treated her well, and she still left and had an affair (is it an affair she is having? or just wanting to be single?)...I don't see why a Plan A is in order, (the goal of Plan A is to try and identify the ways you may have failed, to correct them and to be the better choice than the AP while exposing the affair).

That's okay if it is, but it might be more effective to try a totally different plan. If marrying her is truly what you want.

Well it started on a fun thread we were having where everyone was changing their names, and I decided I liked it better then weaver.

I mean I don't even have a loom, 2long. And eveyone thinks I am a guy. Mimi thought I was a guy for the longest time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

And oh gawd, I hope I never have to weave that parachute together again anyway. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I treated her too well as in I became a doormat. I did have my failings however she thought I was going to propose in April and I didn't so she may have thought I would never propose but we had only known each other for 1 1/2 years at the time.

Of course it's a difficult decision because everyone says run and don't look back.

I know I'm attractive to the opposite sex but I've never felt the way I do about her with any other woman I've known.

I know I didn't meet certain ENs obviously, but I'm not sure how I can be a better choice while I'm away save for positive contacts with her or NC.

I'm just looking for advice. Easy to see what's happening everywhere else but not in your own situation.

Ain't that the truth..

Ok.. well, what kinds of reasons did she give for leaving?

Not everything is babble.. sometimes they actually have legitimate gripes that you can.. and SHOULD be working on in your plan A?

Hate to say it, and I usually don't take a negative view on things, but I think you should leave it.

Look, recovering from betrayal is difficult. Its hard even for people with LOTS of reasons to work for it. Reasons like kids, property, intertwined families, long histories together, all that. Its hard even when the WS is repentent and trying thier hardest to work with the BS.

You don't have any of that. What you have is a 2 year relationship that never progressed to the point of marriage and a woman who cheated on you even when things were pretty good for the most part. She isn't sorry, she's not realizing she made a mistake, she's not putting effort into rebuilding. You've got alot stacked against you, and not much going for you in this relationship other than you love her.

I get the feeling of "love" and all that, but really look at what you're claiming to want. You want to try to rebuild an essentially new relationship into what? A marriage? How long before you would actually feel comfortable marrying this woman now? Years I would think, anything less would be quite foolish given her betrayal.

I just don't see how its worth it. Sorry to say it, but I would suggest you take this as a learning experience, be thankful that you found this out BEFORE you married, and apply all the great things you've learned here to making your next relationship something truly special.

I wish you the best!

411,

Does she have a history of this same kind of behavio in past R's? Leaving the R, instead of working out your problems?

Was she cheating on you? I am confused as to the afair.

James ....

Reasons for leaving were as follows: She wanted a man with more ambition more drive etc. I had been making changes for me and I am trying to head to grad school in 2008. She said ILYBNILWY she said she had troubles with trusting and being worthy of love.

I think you are right.

So very ture on all your points no ties save for my good intentions and my love.

Agred that it would take immense amount of time.

you are right. I guess I'm just still in shock feeling like this isn't happening. Thanks denial! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I guess I feel I'm stong enough to get through anythign but of course the relationship which is over.

I wish you the best too tyk.

Yes, she does have that past behavior of cheating and then ending a relationship.

Her A started in July I believe as an EA but I didn't any inkling (too stupid or in too much denial too realize) until August when we moved into our new place)

D-Day came at the end of September.

I moved out because I couldn't deal with being with someone else and me living there with nothing from her.

Ok Infodude.. I'm going to level with you here.

She wanted a man with more ambition more drive etc.

TRANSLATION: I want a guy with a good job and money to take care of me. I don't want to wait around on a guy going back to college where I'd have to do the heavy lifting to support us.

(my wife is going to get to this point pretty quick with Wonderboy.. betcha)

She said she had troubles with trusting and being worthy of love.

TRANSLATION: I don't trust myself, because I am not trustworthy. I equate trust to love and if I can't trust myself, how could you trust me? I don't deserve your trust because I am betraying you with OM.


Brother.. if you're fighting for this, I'll support you, but I honestly don't understand it. I've built 4.5 years with my wife.. which isn't long in the grand scheme of things, but we've joined kids, made a kid, and joined families.. made promises to eachother and to God..

You're looking down the barrel of a potentially Bi-Polar depressive woman who isn't committed to you or the relationship.. is probably lying to herself, and may have been lying to you all along throughout your relationship about this, that, or the other.

Let me ask you this... what did your friends think of her before the A?

Believe her in this.

This is not a woman you want to marry, or probably even be friends with.

It takes 6 mos to two years for people to show their real stuff, after the chemical high dies down. It's unfortunate that for some people the beginning is the only time they will ever act like that again. She couldn't keep it up even for a year and a half. It wasn't you, 411.

Don't go chasing rainbows. Find a woman who makes you feel good about yourself. Anything less is a shameful waste and a stupid choice. Sorry. Your not stupid, I didn't mean that. But choosing a wife is the most important decision you will ever make. Choose well.

The thing is while I don't have heaps of money my family does have a good sum of cash.

James, I fight because of the type of person I am and knowing what she has been through it is a solitary fight because while everyone supports me they also feel as everyone else feels i.e why would you want this in your life.

I guess I look at it as promise to God to not forsake those who have forsaken you.

I have never been a religious person and I grew up with a Catholic father and Jewish mother. They let me decide my own religious beliefs. I think this whole episode has pushed me towards becoming a catholic and putting faith in religion.

I agree with your synopsis James and the insanity of contemplating any relationship with her.

My friends thought she was nice, a good person, who they liked

You are correct as is everyone else. I don't mind you thwacking me as I am being an idiot. I'm BS in a BS fog. I think my relationship ex was very much like what I'd imagine an A is like.

The irony is that my father had a very similar situation with his ex fiance.

She dumped him and he was devastated and then he met my mom 6 months later.

My mom and dad went back to his country and the ex fiance saw my dad with my mom and wanted him back.

My mom went back to the US and the ex started up with my dad again all the way up the engagement dinner where my dad said he couldn't do it and he came to the states and married my mom.

He later found out she had 1 miscarriage and a baby with another man.

I guess I jsut need to take care of me and take comfort that I didn't waste my life with someone who would have done this to me down the road again.

I deserve better.

The thing is 411, that past behavior is a very good indicator of future behavior. In fact it is the only indicator you have to go on, only being with her for two years...and her doing it again as she has alway done.

Not good, and your energies might be better spent in figuring out a way to get her out of your head now, so that come the new year you are back to living your life again, in joy.

I had to get over the love of my life, who also my DD's dad, and I have to tell you that the hardest part was making the decision to (get over him). After that, it wasn't so hard anymore. Still had pain at times, but mostly I had peace...once I was able to make that decision.

As do we all brother.

But we have what we have. You're the one who can make the choice to move on.

I think it would be a wise decision.. I know it hurts like he11.. but if this is the kind of woman she is.. what if everything was wonderful for 4 years.. or 5.. you married.. had children.. invested in the relationship against your future (read.. home loan.. debt etc.. stuff you incur early in a relationship to build that foundation).. then she pulls this again?

Is that something you're willing to risk? Putting children through this? Going through a divorce instead of just losing a girlfriend? Building family traditions over years and then one day having nothing to hold on to?

Look around the board.. see the pure -anguish- spouses who have years invested in marriages.. children.. look at what they are going through. I know it feels terrible just the way things are.. I understand you have -that- love for her.. but you might be the luckiest one among us to know now, instead of later.

Her past behavior bodes terribly for the future. I guess that's why even as attractive as she is she'll never be married because she isn't addressing her issues and is running away from them.

I guess I just need more time to properly heal and that can't happen while i'm obsessing.

I'm sorry and glad to hear that JJ. Sorry that you have endure such a terrible experience, but glad that you have come to peace in your life.

You do (deserve better).

And look at all that you've learned! Stuff about relationships that you never knew before. Emotional Needs, radical honesty and love busters! This isn't stuff the average person knows going into a relationship, I know I had no freakin' clue about any of it, neither did my wife. Had we known we could have spared each other an incredible amount of pain! Trust me, you're going to see relationship problems again, now, you are armed with the knowledge of how to recognize problems and deal with them in a productive fashion. I know most of us here wish we'd had that.

You're a man in his prime, entering grad school, with a lot of promise and unlimited potential. You'll be fine, you already got a leg up on the competition. I remember long ago thinkin' college babes were hot. I bet they still are!

The irony is I really have nothing to complain about relative to everyone here. I guess I'm lucky in that regard. I pray for everyone here nightly because everyone here deserves better and why we are all being punished is something that makes me wonder on a nightly basis.

Are we being punished really or are we being pushed to become stronger people?

My hope is that God is working to make us stronger.

Would I reconcile at this point if somehow she came crawling back? No, my requirements are very difficult for her because I was a great partner. She's incapable of being in a committed relationship until she owns her bipolar depression and acts accountable for herself.

Life is a risk now getting back with her would be considered a high risk low reward scenario i.e bad investment unless she's willing to take responsability.

James, I'm with you and I will be praying hard for you and your family this evening and all other evenings.

I have learned an incredible amount of things since our break-up. The things I've leanred here regarding POJA, radical honesty etc. The red flags to watch out for in relationships. Most of all I've learned that in spite of my exes atrocious behavior I've learned that there are great people still in the world.

I appreciate everyone here and I will continue to do because this is one of the worst things that can happen to someone.

I've learned that I have the choice to be ash or the phoenix.

I choose the phoenix.