It's been a few days now since I found out. The uncontrollable crying has past, kind of. He has begged me not to leave him, he has said he will do anything to keep me and he quit all contact with her, changed his phone number, and has genuinly done everything possible to remove her from his life.

I've asked for him to tell me everything, which he swears he has, and she has contacted me via text message (a least until I called the police on her) to fill in other details so I have a pretty good picture of how bad it was, and it was really, really vile.

She was my 2 year old daughter's babysitter and he used that as an excuse to see her.

He brought he to our home and slept with her...in my family room and in the spare bed just before it became my daughter's new bed, that I then would lay down on and put my daughter to sleep and read her books and sing her to sleep.

I got sick on our 11th Anniversary and was home sick and he went to "work" and slept with her. I feel like my marriage meant so little to him that he couldn't even choose me on our anniversary.

He took her out to dinner, while I was at my parents, at the resturant that we went to for our last anniversary.

He told her he loved her, he claims to me that he really didn't, but he did say it.

He told her things about my body that he didn't like, that our babies "ruined" my body (BTW, I am 5'5" and 130lbs, my boddy is not "ruined".

And the list goes on an on and it's so vile and hateful. I keep looking for this glimmer of hope that somewhere he choose me over her but the fact is I busted him and he came clean. He said he wanted busted, that he wanted out, but he didn't do it on his own and I am not sure he would have. He claims that he would never have left me, that he loves me so much and that he will do anything to make it right. But the wounds are so deep and the facts are so hurtful. I do still love him but I am not sure what kind of woman would stay with her husband after doing these things and I don't really want to be that kind of woman.

It seems like it's as bad as it could possibly be, how bad do the indiscretions need to be before it not worth saving? At what point do you look at the situation and say to yourself this person couldn't possibly have loved me if he did these things and I should just move on with my life?

I am sorry you are here at MB, but it is the best place to be able to assist you in getting information and learn from people who have gone through much the same feelings.

It appears to me your H was having a lust affair and said anything he thought the other woman wanted to hear to get what he wanted. Pretty usual for affairs

People who have affairs do anything, say anything, lie, change relationship history, they steal from their families time and love, and will behave like pigs, man or woman doesn't matter, I know because I did.

What you feel now is very normal. However I do recommend you do not send your H away yet. WHY? well its a bad time to make a life altering decision, and it would seem your H has broken off the affair (though you need to be a bit wary of his statements right now) wants to stay married and will work on it.
The question is do you REALLY want to end your M? If he is genuine is it worth trying?
I feel it is worth a try from what you have written.

most M which have suffered an affair do recover. How well you recover is up to both of you, how each of you work on the M. However a lot of the work is his and should be to show you he is genuine about this.
I would advise you to contact one of the Harley's and ask for advice, read everything on this site, and with one of the Harleys make a plan to recover your M.

Also as some really experienced regulars come online please ask them questions, answer questions they ask so they can get a good idea of the situation within your M and so on.

please don't make a decision right now. Let the shock pass and think about what you really want.
And one very very important thing .. YOU ARE NOT TO BLAME!!
no matter what excuse he comes up with, he CHOOSE to have an affair ... you see an excuse is just EXACTLY that. NOTHING you did or did not do made him have an affair, he owns that 100%.

dont give up yet!

Sosadnow listen to aussieswife. The crying might have stopped but the hurt is still new. You need time to come to grips with whats happened.

EVERYTHING you are feeling is NORMAL.

Read all you can here, especially surviving an affair. Take a step back, regroup, make no decisions yet. An A has been compared to a death in the family. It takes time to go thru the grieving process THEN make decisions. It is NOT a short term process.

Ask your questions here, vent here...we will help you through this horrible experience.

I'm sorry you find yourself here, but let us help you, and comfort you.

(((Prayers)))

sosadnow,

I can tell you on the other side of my life.

I would advise you to do whatever it takes to forgive... and restore your love for your H.

If I had the chance... oh that I wish I had had the strength to heal sooner.

I am without my ex. He's married the OW.

There's no other man I'll ever love... as long as he lives.

I'm alone.

What kind of a woman heals and forgives and loves him?

A wiser woman... a woman having greater grace... a woman with a real chance to spend the rest of her life with, potentially, the man she loves.

You... I'm praying.

The pain will pass. Please, please, please.. for love's sake... for your own sake... for everyone's best interest... don't miss the opportunity.

The hurt feelings will pass... with healing... and you may just as well heal from within the relationship as from outside it... because if you miss the opportunity to restore your love with him... my testimony, my life may tell you... you may spend years regretting it.

I understand the pain. But wisdom resides in grace... not acting or deciding on the basis of pain or wrongs done.

It's a higher choice... with better results.

(I feel like I'm in "It's a Wonderful Life"... and can't seem to get out of it... can't get the benefit of the ringing bell... like wouldn't it be wonderful if the life of love I really believe I was truly meant to have... could only be restored... living again?)

Don't miss the bell.

Don't miss the chance.

Please don't choose to react out of hurt on the basis of wrong and give up everything your heart truly, in love, may desire.

For whatever it's worth....

Merry Christmas

I guess maybe I'm just looking for answers that he can't seem to give me. I want to know why he would risk everything we had for this other woman.

We had a good marriage. We were a good team. Unlike some of the other things I've read here, we seemed ok. I guess we were going through a tough stage. I was starting a new business, finances were bad, we have a 6 year old and a 2 year old who take up so much of our time. We didn't get to sit and talk to each other much or spend time alone but we really didn't fight, we just seemed busy, and then this came along.

I want to understand but it seems like these things aren't really possible to understand and that drives me crazy.

He tells me it was like a drug that he needed and that she pursued him and he was amazed because she was a pretty cheerleader type and that really turned him on. He tells me he just couldn't seem to get away and he couldn't give it up until I brought him back to the reality of the situation. Does this make any sense?

My husband was so straightlaced. Always doing what's right. Never lied, never cheated, drove the speed limit, a regular rules and regulations guy. I never, ever for one minute thought he could do something like this. I don't even know him as a person who could.

Actually, this is very common. A person who says "I would never have an affair!" is actually quite vulnerable to one, because they do not put boundaries on their behavior.

Affairs usually have a slow start. A look, a conversation, some "opening up" with personal problems. Nothing bad or shocking. Time goes by, another conversation, a longer look...a touch....

It is a slippery slope. I had an affair, and I always thought of myself as sooo ethical. Now I know my weaknesses, and have put very strict boundaries on my behavior so I stay far away from that slope.

I just wanted you to know that your husband is not a bad person because he had an affair. He trusted himself too much, and when he emerges from this fog he will learn how to protect your marriage so that it will NOT happen again.

Hang in there.

Hi sosad.....sorry you're hurting but glad you've come here. Almost every BS who comes here could make a good case for leaving their marriage. Infidelity is a heinous act and the wounds go so deep....it seems as though it would be impossible to ever recover from them. And infidelity is certainly grounds for divorce.

So why does Dr. Harley, or the folks on this forum discourage divorce? There are beaucoup reasons, but here's a few:

*What more and more counselors are discovering is that marriages can and do survive infidelity.

*Divorce is as tragic and infidelity and the it's an incredibly poor solution that can have horrible effects on children.

*Our society is in the midst of a crisis, and we want to fight for marriage because family is the foundation of our society.

*And finally.....because we still loved our spouse and had no intention of letting some homewrecker win this war.

Almost all of us have pondered over the same questions right after d-day:

*Is it worth it?
*Am I a fool for giving this another chance?
*Do I really want a man who would do these things?
*Will I even like myself if I can forgive him?
*How can I ever feel better?
*How can I ever trust him again?

and the list goes on.....

That's what d-day is....discovery day, destruction day, demoralizing day, disillusionment day.

We hear some really rotten stories around here....and on a scale of one to ten....I'd say you're probably about a six. There are some times when I personally don't think a poster should try and save a marriage.....serial cheaters, multiple d-days, abuse, addiction, OP is a family member etc. Your situation....as awful as it is.....is not so severe that if you want to save it, that I would advise you not to try.

In order to try, you've got to recognize the reality of where you are right now. It's okay for you to feel fatalistic about the chances of your marriage surviving....right now the pain is just too fresh and overwhelming. It will get better....but it's going to take a long time, and during that time....it will be gut wrenching.

What this program offers are some real strategies that will give your marriage a chance to heal. It will give you hope and support when those things are hard to find. Even if you want to end your marriage, please don't make that decision right now because while you hurt this badly, you are only capable of an emotional decision that you may regret later.

So please, start filling us in on the details of your marriage. How old are you two? ages of kids? How long married? First marriages?

Also....what have you been able to read so far in the books, on the site, and on the forum. It's important for you to get up to speed on what Plan A and B are. Most folks here are going to want to know who knows about this affair? Is the OP married? How old? Living with parents?

((((((((((((((((sosad)))))))))))))))))))

Yes this makes plenty of sense. Bioneurologists now know that affairs work on the reward stystems of the brain....just like other drug addictions do. The highs are created by powerful biostimulants. The obsessiveness is the result of low levels of serotonin. And the risk....just heightens the experience. These things peak at around 6 months....and gradually decrease over about 18 months. When the attraction chemicals are gone....the affairs are usually over.

Remember....he loved the way he felt about himself when he was with her....he didn't love her. She flattered him. She fed him admiration and inflated his ego. My H's affair had nothing to do with our marriage being awful....I felt the same way you did....shocked. It had to do with too much time apart, opportunity, and ultimately....weak character.

We had to work on all those things to reach recovery.

sosadnow - We all understand the raging range of emotions that you are facing right now.

So let me give you just one potential answer to your question for you to consider.

"I do still love him but I am not sure what kind of woman would stay with her husband after doing these things and I don't really want to be that kind of woman."

Let's rephrase this to read thusly:

"I do still love her but I am not sure what kind of man would stay with his wife after doing these things and I don't really want to be that kind of man."

I was that man. I saw no hope for our marriage given the 6 year long intense affair she was in when I discovered it (no she did not confess it or choose to end it until months after I discovered it).

We are now still married and 5.5 years out from when I told her to get out and leave home. We are in love and she now (now that she is out of the fog of the fantasy of the affair) considers it, and him, to have been the biggest mistake of her life (and not she couldn't see it "back then").

My advice right now? DON'T make permanent life changing decisions right now while your emotions are running rampant.

Do get into JOINT marital counseling ASAP, but do so ONLY with a counselor who is both trained and committed to SAVING marriages. Counseling does NOT mean that you have decided to "forgive and forget," but it is "Emergency Room" treatment right now for the big issues, including your need to KNOW what had been going on. You have a "third party" to ask you both the "hard questions" as well as someone to help you both as members of ONE marriage unit, not as individuals.

God bless.

I am sorry you are here in so much pain. This to me would be a HUGE issue that would require the house be put up for sale immediately if you wish to recover. There is disrespectful and then there is stuff like this.

Some of the things your H did ...sex with her on your anniversary while you were sick...making hateful comments about your body...sex in your own home...etc..would make me file for divorce immediately(but that's me). Recovering your M is possible. But based on the details given, it will be harder than most I have seen here in my time.

So, you asked about how bad things need to be before it is not worth saving....I think your H has answered that question with his actions.

No matter what happens, speak to an attorney immediately. Discuss your legal options and protect yourself.

If you decide to try and recover your M, you will find help here. But be prepared for a LONG battle. Also, get rid of the triggers for pain that you are able to...furniture/house etc...none of those things would be worth the pain they cause.

BTW, have you been tested for STD's? 50% of affairs result in one STD or another. Be mindful and careful of your need to protect yourself.

I wish you peace and happiness. And while I am hopeful your M can recover (if that is what you desire) I want you to make sure that your self respect and dignity remain intact.

(side-note...be very careful of Back's advice as she is new here and obviously has some issues she needs to work through).

medc....Thank you for that really practical and well thought out post. You hit on quite a few things that are really important and hadn't been mentioned. That's what's so great about this forum....if two heads are better than one....imagine how many heads and sets of eyes we have here.

"It seems like it's as bad as it could possibly be, how bad do the indiscretions need to be before it not worth saving?"

IMHO the worse the indiscretions were the more time and effort need to be put into the recovery by the WS.

Your WS's begging could be an indicition that he is truly broken and wil be willing to do what's necessary to repair the damage he's caused. Or it might just be an attempt on his part to get you to forgive and forget ASAP so he doesn't have to make changes, and so he doesn't have to suffer any consequences of the adultery. You will be able to tell the difference by how he ACTS, not what he says.


If he is truly repentent and ready to repair he will have no objection to:

sending the OW a no contact letter clearly stating that he chooses you over her, that he regrets having had anything to do with her, and that he wants zero future contact with her

answering ALL your questions

going to a marriage counselor (that is not pro-divorce)

removing himself from situations/locations that might have him coming into contact with OW again (even changing jobs if they work together and moving to another city or state if that's what it will take to prevent running into her)

making changes in himself to prevent any future adulteries
(including individual counseling if needed)

working on the marriage to strengthen it and to ensure that EACH of you get your most important emotioanl needs met by each other (and NO OTHERS)

becoming accountable for his time, money, communications (e-mails, phone calls, text messaging)

Promising, crying, begging... may mean the adulterer is truly broken... or it just may mean they are selfishly saying whatever they think will get you to 'get over it' ASAP. His behavior will reflect the truth.

Like others have said your feelings are perfectly normal.

As FWH let me offer this bit of advice ... don't look for answers to why ... especially from him ... his mind is simply not capable at this early stage.

The analogy to a drug addiction is a good one ... right now he's in "detox". You wouldn't expect rational answers from someone coming down from a crack addiction.

In time there will be the opportunity to reflect and understand. While I 10000% support the contention that there is NO valid justification for an A, there are always underlying reasons in the M before the A that made it susceptible to an A ... that's where you ought focus the recovery efforts.

I was also one of those "never me" kinda guys ... straight-laced, considered myself moral ... to the point that I had convinced myself "I can handle it without letting this go too far" ... "I can stop if I wanted to" ... you're not alone here!

Keep reading as much as you can, post regularly and try to get some experienced posters here to give you the lowdown on Plan A.

Finally as some encouragement here ... and not to diminish how much pain you feel right now ... you're actually further along than many other BS who find themselves here. This site is littered with WH who refuse to break contact with OW even after they're busted ... in these early days you seem to have that much going for you.

Be strong!

Thank you for all your advice. It has really helped me try to slow down and wait. Someone asked for more info about our marriage. We've been together 17 years, married for 11. He was the love of my life and neither of us were married before. We have two children, 6 and 2. He worked out of the house and had a lot of freedom, I am starting a business and work long hours. I'm 39, he's 38. The OW was 28 and married, her second, with two kids.

He sent her a no contact message. She called, he didn't answer, she called more and he gave me his phone and I answered and told her she didn't get the "closure" she felt she deserved. The next day we changed his number and threw away the phone. I asked him to do these things and he readily agreed.

He has answered all my questions, he has not held back any of the details becasue I asked becasue I felt the only way out of the pit was to get to the bottom. It was excruciatingly painful.

He quit the gym that they both went to and the spinning classes that he taught. He has not agreed to quit his job as a Handyman which concerns me becasue he has so much freedom with that type of job. I don't know if I should insist he get another job, it certainly didn't help that I didn't know where he was during the day.

He has let me look at this phone, even keep it with me. Change the phone numbers on the property we are selling to my number so that she couldn't get the new number.

He threw away our couch, ripped out our basement carpet and got rid of our spare bedroom mattress so that everywhere in our house is "clean" I'm not sure what to do about his truck, although I really don't want to ride in it.

And we are starting counseling tomorrow, although we already has a short conversation with her two days ago.

I really want to believe he is finished, he tells me he is and I think he has made the effort so far. Right?

it most definitely sounds like you have things going in the right direction!! having a WH as seemingly cooperative is a huge step ahead

by no means does that mean you shouldn't remain vigilant and suspicious ... you do still have a long way to go ... keep your senses on high alert

I think you've set very reasonable boundaries to ensure you have as much transparency as you will need to help youself through this and he is doing his part in that so far

Here's the hard part ... it's still early for both of you ... there will surely be some bumps in the road as he gets deeper into withdrawl ... you'd be wise to keep your boundaries in place but not dwell on them ... focus on the elements of Plan A ... when he does have moments of doubt/weakness (and he will) you'll want to be creating the environment that he wants to be in (being a downer or harping on the indiscretions could help him self-justify a relapse or renewed contact).

Keep your chin up ... you've got a lot going the right way!