So she tells me two weeks ago in a casual conversation that she found an empty condom rapper in the front yard and was informing me because if I found it in the trash she wanted me to know how it got there. "I know how you think".

Tells me yesterday that she was going to stop by the OM house this morning to pick up tickets for some show for our kids to go to.

She reports arriving to his house at 0755, OMW is still there, but departs for work at 0800. W then carts OM kids in the van down to the bus stop and returns to OM house and spends 1 - 1 1/2 hour "chatting".

Should any of this concern me??

I would be worried about the 1 1/2 long visit to this man's house. The condom rapper? Honestly, if she had something to hide, wouldn't she just hide it? I know *I* can easily get rid of any trash I don't want my dh to see. Do you go through the trash or something? Has she given you other reason to not trust her?

Have you told her you think it inappropriate for her to spend time alone with this man?

I don't honestly get the whole condom thing, but I sure see her spending unsupervised time with a married man as unacceptable behavior.

First, I would tell her that this is really not appropriate behavior, and then, I would contact the OM's wife and share your concerns with her.

You need to do some serious checking up on your wife. IMHO, she is at the very least involved in an EA and most liked a PA with this guy.

Sorry, but I can feel the breeze from the waving red flags.

Who

Sym:

You posted this in the EN FOrum:


The wrapper, she blew it with that. SHE thought you had seen it. She wanted to EXPLAIN it. Sort of a defense thing. But you NEVER saw the wrapper. So she screwed up.

She is in DEEP. I believe, alot deeper than an EA. I think a talk with the W, in private is in order.

Time to discuss your concerns. I been in the house. It was never platonic.

Lets of mean things in emails to relatives , etc, about you is also a big red flag....

LG

What was happening to make you suspicious? Is your full story told in another thread?

The condom thing to me is a big red flag, because it doesn't make sense. Things that don't make sense when infidelity is suspected throw up a huge red flag for me.

If I had trusted myself early in my W's A I would have been much better off. What is your gut telling you? Obviously that something is up. Trust that, and find out. Good work on the spying, I just don't think you've dug hard enough.

Tyk - as listed above. Thanks LG for the assist!

To tell you the truth, I thought of nothing when she told me. It was not until I ran this scenario past a friend that her RED flags came up.

And according to my W, OMW was there initially but then left to go to work leaving them there.

However, in review of what my W has told me, she put OM kids in the van at 0800 and drove them down to the bus stop and then returned to the OM house where in she spent approximately 1 -1 1/2 hours "chatting". Now please understand that my 5 y/o DS was also there.

Does this make a difference and what do I do now?

Thanks

5 year old knows nothing about affairs. She can give her some toy or ask her to watch tv and do her thing behind close doors in a room with OM.

If it's a 10 year old, that's a difffernt story.

A FOUR year old understands about affairs. NO CHILD should be exposed to an affair, regardless. They might not understand today, but most will soon enough.

I would tail your wife and find out what she is doing, Sympatico.

Confronted her this evening and her reply was that she thought it "was appropriate considering that they have been friends for two years and his W is comfortable".

But said that "she would not do it anymore since it bothered me" and that "she just would not have any friends".

I expressed my concern as to the inference that this gave to no avail.

Ended in an argument and now I am in the spare bedroom.

It just appears that our relationship is going downhill and we are no longer compatable.

She twists the story to make me feel guilty.

Sympatico-
Sorry you are in this situation. Denial is a defense that some of us overuse. Wayward spouses LIE all the time. They get good at it. Plus you really want to believe the lies because the truth is a nuclear bomb in the middle of your family. Again, I am so sorry, but wishing won't make it go away. If you need absolute proof hire a PI. What's quicker is to hide a digital recorder in her car. That's were she talks to the OM all the time. They probably talk about sex. They probably talk about you and how they are going to deal with you. First prove to yourself that it really is happening. Then read everything on this site, study up on plan A and bust that sleazy affair! Good luck!

She stated that she was not in the mood to have this discussion and I told her that I would just leave her alone tonight.

Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill here? Am I fabricating the facts?

I am lost here! What? What? Is there no end to the irony?

I got busted on the phone tapping. Not much else left to do.

S-
The above is straight out of the playbook. "It's OK for me to be friends with this OM even if it bugs the heck out of you, my husband." This is entitlement rearing its head. Then she said she would do what you request (almost certainly a lie) while at the same time acting as if you are the one being unreasonable. I fell for this exact gambit. The "just friends" thing is either a lie now or will be soon. They ALL say this.

Well she came to me and stated that she felt insulted that I would accuse her or suspect infidelity with this guy (him compared to me), as he is not very physically attractive. I wrote the follow note and will verbalized it to her in the am:

I am going to say this one more time then unlike you, I am going to forget all this and NEVER bring it up again.

Five years ago, you independently changed our sexual relationship. I went to marriage counseling on two separate occasions and he agreed with me that something was amiss. I tried getting you to talk to me then and was unsuccessful and eventually gave it up.

Fast forward five years you start talking about a man and how “funny he was, and easy to talk to”. That coupled with a another change in our relationship got me to thinking again that something was amiss between us.

That is when I started paying closer attention to what was going on and subsequently started monitoring phone calls.

I overheard you telling your sister how “if you never had sex again, it would not bother you”. And her saying “why can’t they just let it happen if it happens”.

In a conversation with (GF), you stated that I was “needed back here for the kids and to keep the driveway free of snow” and in the next breath, talk about your luncheon with OMW in how you thought that you would be “stuck with her without distraction” until you discovered that OM was coming along and how he was the “type of guy you could talk to all the live long day and how funny he was”. And you expect me not to feel any anxiety with you spending and hour and a half alone with this guy that I barely know, whose wife is not in the house?

How you could not “relax, drink and smoke while I am at home, that you would rather do it while I am away”. So much “pressure related to sex”, how once I threatened you with divorce and you stated that I would come on to you a couple days later wanting sex and when I did not get it accuse you of being “frigid”. Not once did I hear you take responsibility for making the changes in our relationship as a reason for the way that I felt.

I am NOT looking for these things. All the changes that have taken effect coupled with the things that I have overheard have led me to the state that I am in right now relative to my distrust and suspicions that I feel towards you.

YOU HAVE CREATED this circumstance and I am simply responding.

I am sincerely sorry for the state that our marriage is in and I accept mutual responsibility for the cause. I feel that there was something that you needed and I was unable to provide it to you.

I have tried to make things right and have asked you for help which you fail to provide.

A couple of months ago, I asked you for a date that we can sit and talk. You never gave me one.

I asked you to complete the emotional needs questionnaire and the response that I got was “I don’t need to fill out a questionnaire”, “I am proud of where I am and how I got here and besides “I’m not going to change anyway”.

I asked you to read His needs Her needs and you have yet to crack the book.

How am I supposed to feel that you have been open, honest and willing to work on our marriage given the above facts and stipulations?

Well there you have it. I will no longer be spying, monitoring phone calls or putting forth any additional effort to try and figure out what is wrong with you or how I can fix it. It’s off my chest and my conscious is clear.

Now it’s on you to decide whether or not our relationship is worth the effort

For as much as you are saying, the WS will hear even less.

Why waste precious time, energy and resources when it will not be effective.

Wouldn't you rather be productive in your approach?

L.

I suggest not making promises like that.

And if your W is a WS, which I suspect she is, she's likely to ignore the rest, apart from the part where you've indicated that you're letting her off the hook for her behaviour (yes, that's how she's going to interpret the last few comments in your message).

Ya, I agree with them, she heard Charlie Brown's mom except for the very end.

However, its good for her to hear it, and it will at times percolate through her brain.

Now what are you gonna do?

Wow, Sympatico, your story sounds exactly, and I mean exactly like someone who just stopped posting here not too long ago.

The aversion to sex beginning five years ago.

The stopping and visiting at OM's after taking yours and his children to school.

The drinking and smoking.

The pressure on her to have sex.

The doubt of your own perceptions.

Wow. I can't remember the other posters name but it is exactly the same.

And I am also going to add, if you are the same you must really want our help. You desperately need to bounce this off of someone.

This time, please listen to us.

Your wife is wayward. It is not your imagination or your fabrication. You are NOT insane.

You are being played.

NOTHING will change until you face this as an affair...and until the drinking is under control or abated altogether.

YOU are going to have to start trusting yourself, your own instincts, toughen up, and be willing to make some serious changes yourself.

Time to face reality.

Thanks for the replies you all.

I am totally distraught!! I don't know what to do now. She swears up and down that NOTHING is going on, she has even suggested me giving her a lie detector test. She is admimate that this is all ME.

This morning we had another conversation and she is still bringing up issues from 10 years ago (I had an internet affair, went to counseling and everything).

Despite the conversations that I have overheard her having and the spying she still refuses to acknowledge any responsibility or wrong doing here. And she makes it believable as well.

I do not want to feel that I am unable to trust my wife or that she is in fact having an affair.

I stopped all recording. I am mentally exhausted and am ready to just through the towel in "I'm done, well done"

What should I do?

This has been driving you crazy for too long ... looks like your W just opened the door for either revelation or closure. CALL HER BLUFF AND SET UP THE LIE DETECTOR!!!

Put an end to this one way or the other.

Sympatico, go back & re-read Orchid's post.
Then respond, after thinking through what she wrote to you.