I think what MyRevelation is trying to say is that Christianity doesn't own the concept of marriage, nor is it the only religion or culture that opposes adultery. But some of the finer details in beliefs/customs differ slightly. SD never stated her religion or beliefs. My interpretation of her post is that she first separated from her husband and then met her fiance before the divorce was finalized. For some of you, this is adultery. For me, it's not - if the marriage was already over. Divorce is handled by the court system in this country and I certainly don't bow down and worship them. There is no reason to argue over this - we simply disagree on one of the fine details of it because we don't share exactly the same religous beliefs. This does NOT change our agreement regarding the value/sanctity of marriage vows OR the destructiveness of adultery.

Edited to fix the name - sorry MEDC

where was I trying to say this?

Hi SD,

How r u?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(hmmmm... hmmmmm... hmmmm.....)

Gotta go to work. Had a "big day" yesterday and felt like taking this morning off.

I wish a poster had control over their own thread ... ... so a person could have some...

peace.

Peace, SD.

God bless.

Tabby, I am going to presume you mean MyRevelation and not MEDC? If so, MR said nothing about what you describe above.

What he said was this:


What he said is that Christians should not express their views of right and wrong because they are based on religion, and therefore not legitimate, in his opinion. Only secular views of right and wrong are legitimate. [apparently, since he has no compunction about telling others HIS OWN VIEWS of right and wrong] In other words, it is ok for HIM to express his views of right and wrong, but NOT for Christians.

[quote

What he said is that Christians should not express their views of right and wrong because they are based on religion, and therefore not legitimate, in his opinion. Only secular views of right and wrong are legitimate. [apparently, since he has no compunction about telling others HIS OWN VIEWS of right and wrong] In other words, it is ok for HIM to express his views of right and wrong, but NOT for Christians. [/quote]

Wow. I didn't get that at all.

Wow. I didn't get that at all. [/quote]

What did you get when he said: "You see, I don't see any place on this forum for religious beliefs. IMHO, this whole issue is about "right and wrong", and in most cases that coexists nicely with most religious beliefs. However, when they don't based on someone ELSE's interpretation, then the entire message they are trying to convey is LOST. "

Am I the only one that caught this? Thanks Pep for pointing that out! I say that makes the case for God most definitely having a place on this forum. The poster who argued otherwise is WRONG.

PM, we knew dat! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

**edit**
If you sincerely wanted to know the answers to those questions, or anything else ********, why didn't you ask her? Instead, you made assumptions and jumped straight to judgment.

**************edit**********
--SC


PPS For those of you who think you could see into SD's heart and soul and "read" her attitude based on the "tone" of her first post... in which she tried to sum up 20+ years of her life in a few paragraphs... let me tell you something about childhood abuse survivors: Many of us tend to pepper our LIVES with "LOL's". It's called bravado. A defense mechanism. A survival technique. It may or may not have any connection whatsoever to what's really beneath the surface. Just so you know.

So are you saying that non-Christians need not visit this forum? Perhaps there should be a warning at the top of the page.

huh? You damn her for not asking "questions" [of SD] and then turn around and damn her FOR asking questions of you and then use that as evidence of her "insincerity." huh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> How does that make sense, sc? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

However, aren't you doing the exact same thing to her when you presume to know her intentions and form a conclusion based on an [irrational] assumption?

Certainly it's always "about the couple themselves." No one would argue that because they ARE a married couple, or even in this a divorced couple that were married.

Dysfunctional perhaps. Began for "less than ideal" reasons perhaps. But married nonetheless.

And you raise a very relevant issue, in my opinion, regarding "motivation."

What is it that provides a "motivation" and a "solid foundation?"

If it is NOT God and what He has done for us, if it is not that God is Sovereign, not each of us individually, WHAT provides that "motivation" and "solid foundation" that would be applicable to each of them independent of their own "feelings?"

If "feelings" are the determinant, then they can be "used" to justify anything. If "absolutes" are removed and all things are relegated to being "just relative," what is left for a motivation and solid foundation that would give people a reason to persevere through the really hard times, especially the really hard times of recovering from adultery? And why would such a reason be applicable to anyone else, as that would be potentially applying a reason that is "acceptable to you" to someone else when they might not think your "reason" is good enough or applicable to them?

Where did she say that? Can you please point me to that statement? Thank you! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Tabby,
You see, I don't see any place on this forum for secular beliefs. IMHO, this whole issue is about "right and wrong", and in most cases that coexists nicely with most secular beliefs. However, when they don't based on someone ELSE's interpretation, then the entire message they are trying to convey is LOST. Speaking of one's own individual secular beliefs in a debate is only beneficial if both parties share the same basic secular phylosophies, otherwise the poster is simply wasting their time.

IMHO, this whole controversy is about the inability to recognize that inter-personal relationships often play out in the spectrum between right and wrong.

Well, a religious debate was bound to happen here eventually.

FWIW, I took MyRev's post to mean that advice is welcome, but preaching is pointless unless you know the other person shares your beliefs. It will just fall on deaf ears, or cause that person to discount everything you say out of hand.

I think every person here can agree on the basics. Adultery is a betrayal of the worst kind and is never ok. On the other hand, to say categorically that a relationship that starts while a person is waiting for divorce is adultery is not truthful, its just judgmental. Because it may not apply outside your chosen set of beliefs.

Nearly the entire first page of this thread was just downright venemous attacks against a woman who came here looking for advice. Maybe she is still a bit wayward. Maybe the cavalier attitude that came through in her first post was the true her and she doesn't get it.

The only thing we can now be sure about is that, whatever help she needs or could use, won't be obtained here.

9 To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable:

10 "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector.

11 The Pharisee stood up and prayed about[a] himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men — robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector.

12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'

13 "But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'

14"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
(Luke 18:9-14)

Hi Tabby:

You wrote:


There are several BS here (hundreds if not thousands for the last several years) that are indeed “separated” yet desperately trying to recover their marriage, where their WS is most likely telling people and believe themselves they are divorced and/or “it is over and the marriage is dead” when it really isn’t from the BS POV.

What would you advise those BS do? Accept the separation as divorce and to move on, its over?

The reason I ask is because if you read the articles here on this site by Harley and his books, he talks about the very real possibility of recovering your marriage with his principles inspite of “separation”. And I have seen the success occur time and time again.

Jo

p.s. I would also add according to SD's posts she continued to date her BH even after separation with full intention to reconcile. I'm sure that gave her BH reason to have tons of hope. Enter OM, that is if he wasn't already on the scene.

Nooooo Mel.

What I said was: I don't TRUST *****based on an observed PATTERN of behavior (not on an irrational assumption).

That pattern is: Judge first, ask questions later, twist the responses to fit the preconception.

--SC

Back, I know you don't like to discuss things and prefer to just make statements, but have you really considered what you are saying here? If this is the "position" that you want to take, you certainly can, but then it would also seem to be a logical question to apply to your own situation and to your ex-husband's current marriage.

How, really, do we know that this ISN'T!!!!... the covenant marriage God planned for him all along????

You don't want to believe that it might apply to your ex-husband and you choose to stop discussing your situation when it gets "too close" and you start feeling "shocked."

That's fine, you have the right to not discuss anything you don't want to discuss.

But it does seem to "beg" for a discussion if you are now going to argue that perhaps this impending marriage between SwingDancer and her OM (they started their relationship about 6 months into her separation, that she CHOSE, not her husband, and while she was still married). So if you are now going to argue that perhaps this man is the man that "God intended" for her, it sounds very much like a common refrain that has been heard many many times from a WS; "God must have meant the OP and me to be together because it feels so good, or God wouldn't have brought us together!"

You seem to basing your feeling on the matter of whether or not a marriage, any marriage, is recognized as a marriage by God. And that IS the question that needs to be asked and answered, but you do not seem ready to discuss that with respect to your own situation. So if you won't address it for yourself, why would you want to make such assumptions as "God intended it" for SD and her OM or attempt to chastise others for stating what they DO believe about marriage?

What is trying to be avoided here is the idea that someone can have their cake and eat it too and that everyone else is simply supposed to say "okay, it's fine, here let me help you to eat it." They may still eat it anyway, but that still doesn't necessarily make what they are doing right.