I have tears in my eyes.

JL, you have a rare gift for reaching out to people and gently helping them to look inside themselves and rethink things. You can be stern, when necessary. But always willing to listen with an open mind and heart, and then come back with more help and guidance.

Beyond that, you have always managed to stay above the frey... ignoring the bickering and meta-discussions... and helping to refocus posters on the important matters at hand. For YOU to finally get fed-up... well... I think it speaks volumes.

I respect your decision to go. There's only so much one person can do. I hope you will find another outlet to share your passion for healthy marriages. Your knowledge and gifts should not be wasted.

From the bottom of my heart, thank you for all the time and effort you spent helping me. I'll never forget it.

--SC

SC & JL,

JL's post has been on my mind all evening. I have asked him to stay and help us get back on track. Haven't heard from him yet. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

The scars we bear from being here are showing. It takes a lot for us to be here this long. Still the benefit is more than we will ever know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

JL helped the 'silent majority' a lot. I often heard others would quote or refer to his posts from many months to years in the past. His words were soothing then and still are now.

JL taught us balance. I will never forget how he helped me through my crisis. His posts were one of the main ones I would read each day.

I have never met him yet, I feel like he played an integral part in my personal recovery. My H s/b indebited to him also because it was tooo easy to write him off. JL taught me to look at all sides before jumping. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I am scared and I am hoping.... lots of conflicting emotions going on right now. I want what's good for JL and yet feel selfish for not wanting to let him go.

JMHO,
L.

Yet another crazy argument going on dominated by the same posters. For a site with a membership of thousands, it is staggering how such a small band of posters wield such power and influence so many.

I don't have the time to spend here these days but have the greatest respect for all of you who do spend hours counselling and caring for people in need. However, I don't understand why time and again threads get totally derailed when all it takes is you saying, "I believe you are still wayward, I choose not to help you" or words to that effect. Once you've said your bit, do you really have to keep on and on and on until tempers fray and the thread gets locked?

Those who wish to assist should be free to do so without being barked at. What an argumentative crowd you have evolved into - it's so unnecessary IMO. Standing up for what you believe in is honorable, but you have to question your tactics (don't you?) when people like JL and Ark feel so offended by your tone that they back off?

Orchid,

Please thank MrOrchid for his post tonight for me.

The scars we bear are showing...I agree.

My prayer is for JL to feel like he's leaving the site and not reacting to it. To me, he is MB...like Pepperband, you, ark, Star, Bramblerose, StillSeeking...

Too much loss for me this year...WAT, Motarman, redhat, dorry, KiwiJ, Suzet...

And the near-losses...Mimi, ForeverHers...

And the possible losses...JustLearning and me, too.

Wondering what to do...what lesson to learn...differing opinions are necessary for balance...all contribute...

just not able to take the knocks, the selective edits anymore...the fear.

MB was a refuge from fear...because I could come here, get differing viewpoints, experiences...hear the quiet certainty of personal recovery when my marital recovery was tenuous.

Now it seems to me to be a place of fear for me. Could just be I'm in that place myself.

LA

TT,

Can you please clarify.... is your post directed to me? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I have great respect for JL and Ark along with many others. I have learned that most post good info and learn to take the good and strip away the bad.

Your response is greatly appreciated.

L.

LA,

Mr Orchid (funny name - he is at work right now, I will have to tell him about this name. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )..... anyways.... H will appreciate your comments. He was a bit hot under the collar about the responses but we discussed it and I responded.

Not all posters are gone. I just spoke to Redhat this week. He is doing fine. I also heard from Anna Marie and was able to visit with Knewjie and [H]. They are all doing well.

Still I feel the same pangs as you are feeling. Yep, us oldies have feelings too! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hugz 2 u and your family,

L.

You are all so valuable to those of us still in the fight, still here to learn and overcome. Please know that your advice and shared experience has helped so many of us here.

I can only hope that some of you will hang on and continue to advise. For me, it's not only about marriage building, but about personal recovery. I can't get that from the MB books as well as I can get it from the vets and long time posters.

Thank you, sincerely, for all of your time and patience.

You are right, it is truly a sad day. JL was a singular gem on these boards. His calm, steady wisdom and non-judgemental nature has been a positive force that has affected more posters than almost anyone else. He is truly a man above men.

Some of you need to give yourselves a pat on the back. It's one thing to scare off a newbie whose post(s) you find disagreement with, but to drive off a tolerant, gentle compassionate soul who has been here more than 8 years takes a nearly unheard-of talent.

Who will be the next victim of this "irresistable force"?

Anyone who just wants to chalk this up to "board cycles" is either trying to justify their own bad behavior or truly does not understand the gravity of JL's decision.

Look in the mirror people. It's time to start helping those in need and to stop trying to destroy those with whom you disagree.

All one has to do is to read the responses to SwingDancer's thread to see where the real problem lies.

It is sad... and it's happening too often here lately.

I hope you stick aroung JL, I find your posts to very helpful.

Take a few days to cool off. I have before and it helps.

I can completely see why JL has chosen this course. I've spent my time on this site, and seen it go through the whole gambit as well. I've tapered my posting off here quite a bit for the same reasons that JL and others have mentioned. For a marriage building site, there's precious little 'love' in the way we address each other anymore.

At this point, I'm moving on as well. I wish you all the best, and hope that whatever happens, the people that come here get the help they're looking for.

i was gone... and came "back"... and while there are new people on here who have a lot to offer that weren't on here before...

it's incredible how the dogmatism that was not present before creates an atmosphere... which, actually, wounds... and thus CREATES... a fog. (I mean hitting wounded people who come to give/receive care... and what can I say?)

This site used to be so much more civil, kind, caring, and nice... respectful... and beneficial.

SL, This is EXACTLY how I feel as well. I don't know how to get your quote into this saying, but I am SO THERE WITH YOU.

In Judaism there is a saying L'dor V'Dor - from generation to generation. The veterans on here have given us their patience, kindness, wisdom, caring, and many times love. I believe it's "our" responsibility as the new ones to learn everything we can and help those who come after us because THERE SURELY WILL BE.

I am just beginning my personal recovery, and I NEED the wisdom from the veterans on here. Please know that just like out in the world, there are ALL KINDS of people on here. We come to this site because we are INJURED or HAVE INJURED someone we LOVE very much.

It has taken me LONG time to understand, EVERYONE one of us is G-D'S GREATEST MIRACLE. Isn't rule number one, next to BREATHING, we can't change anyone but ourselves. I guess I am asking that we remember, that. And if someone says something that we DON'T like or it pushes our buttons, that we look at why it is pushing OUR buttons.

I am coming to believe this site offers a bigger picture about G-d working in our lives and we need to HONOR G-d by not being hurtful to each other. We are hear to walk through a journey that is WITHOUT A DOUBT, crippling and G-d is counting on us to show the good that can come out of it.

I for one, hope the veteran's truly understand how IMPORTANT they are, and that US NEW ONES, NEED YOU for your wisdom, but TO TEACH US.

Isn't there a saying from Jesus that if you are slapped in the face, give them the other cheek? Now, I don't know Jesus like MOST everyone else, but I do know. To receive love, you NEED to give unconditional love.

And there are times when people are sick and just plain mean on here I am sure. Aren't there avenues of recourse with the moderators for them to handle it, while we keep to the business of helping each other survive in G-ds world.

Remember, I am NEW and this might be considered way too much rambling,

IMHO,
SG

I agree. The mob mentality that has taken over so many threads lately is disturbing...as Heartpain said, an "irresistable force."

Shooting hateful/sarcastic/contemptuous barbs -- all in the name of Christ -- is not right. Whatever truth is in the message gets lost in the venom.

It's one thing to disagree and state your position, but it's quite another thing to try to hammer someone into submission.

I sincerely hope JL doesn't leave MB for good. That would be the biggest loss MB has suffered, IMO.

Lori

JL,

I don't come here often. However today I saw this. I wanted to THANK YOU for taking the time to give me hope, encouragement and advise for my marriage. There are several people who will forever have a place in my life, and in helping with my marriage.

You are one of those people. You may never know the impact you had, I want to say THANK YOU.

It seems sometimes that negatives often wins over the good and positive. I am very Thankful that I was blessed to be touched by your help.

Goodbye JL,

Thank you for your reasoned discussion and your compassion.

I don't post much now, but I still read sometimes . . . it is kind of like passing a bad car wreck . . . you don't really want to look, but you just can't seem to help yourself.

The tenor and substance of the conversations here have certainly changed in the years I've been here. It has become more like "talk radio" and less like a conversation among friends.

I feel this way sometimes about this place nowadays. But if everybody who has obtained a level of wisdom, of peaceful compassion leaves, who will be around to keep the peace?

Who will we learn from? Who, who has wisdom, will share it?

CN, I hope you are well. Maybe it's time for you to start offering your perspective again?

Atpeace is another one, who has the ability to calm. Miss M, too. I'm sure there are many others who exude this quality for others. Csue. Toomuchcoffeeman.

It is sad. It is sad when anybody feels their contribution does not matter. Or who feels they cannot be heard. Sad, indeed. Or that this place has become a source of pain, of stagnation, instead of a place of hope and growth. And as you said CN, friendship.

Heartpain - just by way of information, the reference to cycles which I made was referring to another series of posts that JL made on another forum. JL was the one to first reference "cycles" and I was referring him back to that other thread.

If he chooses to leave, permanently or temporarily, he will be missed. But it his choice regardless of what triggered his decision at this time. I personally KNOW the feeling that he referenced, but I also think that JL will return at some time simply because there is always (unfortunately) a great need here and he is a caring person. JL never had to experience infidelity in his life, but sought to provide comfort and advice to others based in his desire to help and based on what he liked in the "MB" methods.

God bless.

JL, it certainly is a sad day for MB if you're leaving. I hope you don't, but I would certainly understand if you did.

It used to be a gentler place around here...respectful of others...compassionate. But over the last year or so it's become more and more common for threads to descend rapidly into aggression and confrontation. Murmurs of compassion are drowned by the raging of the mob.

It's possible to be forthright without being rude, as you have proved.

It's possible to see the terrible choices someone else is making without despising them for those choices.

It's possible to point out to someone that they're being selfish, without making them feel defensive and angry.

It's possible to respond with patience to a poster who is slow to 'get it', rather than get angry at their obtuseness.

If you leave, we lose a hugely valuable model of how to do those things.

We've lost too many calming voices. The balance is off.

TA

JL,

You and I have often posted on the same threads to help others.

We share a sense of peace within, and the need to help others find it.

Know that I will pray for you to return to that peaceful place within your own heart, so that you will find yourself able once again to help others - whether here or elsewhere - because I know that this is a part of you and your life, to help others in need.

I thank you for what you have given me here, through your kindness, in cyberspace. I'm sure those who know you IRL find you a comfort. There are many here who wish for your return. If you find yourself back here someday, you will be welcome!

SB

JL

As you'll recall, you talked me down from reacting badly 2 an explicit email i intercepted from RM 2 my W back in March 2002.

I'm sorry 2 see you go, but know I'll run in2 you at science meetings again.

Un42nately, I won't be there next week this time. I just got back from a review meeting there, where I was really sick the whole time.

Hope you stay in touch,

-ol' 2long