Thanks to all of you and your continued help. I've worked things with my W, with all of your help, through the affair portion...the beginning of it anyway. I'm still having a problem with lying and I don't know how to fix it. She asked me a question today and since it had been a while since it happened, I delayed and ultimately didn't give her the information. I gave it to her as she asked questions, but didn't come outright with it and I acknowledge that and feel terrible given all the opportunities that she has given me. The problem is that it's like a relaps and it scares her. I'm worried (again) that she is going to back out of the marriage. I feel that if I had some sort of plan to work off of, that I could overcome this action. I would love to talk to a counselor so that I could figure out WHY I do it and fix it. I'm afraid that my continued lying will break up my family. All of this is in conjunction with an affair that we are working past as well. Any advice/guidance would be GREATLY appreciated.

Here's a plan: STOP LYING.

Seriously, that part of it is very simple.

Call the Harley's...as soon as possible, before you lie your way right into a divorce.

Really, there is nothing more to lie about. Do you think you are saving your wife from pain? Nope. Do you think it will hurt less if she doesn't have all the answers? Nope.

Find "Joseph's Letter" here on MB. Do a search for it. Read it. Maybe then you'll understand how important radical honesty is...

Please don't think that you have worked through the affair portion of anything...especially if you are continuing to lie when she asks for answers. That is not "working through" anything. And if you think that you can somehow fix this in a matter of days you have a lot more reading to do!! It could take up to two years to rebuild your marriage.

Get the books. Call the Harley's. STOP lying. Write a No Contact letter to the OW. Start with these...

brian,

I think talking to a counselor is a really good idea. Please give the Harley's a call....the information is right on the homesite. H and I went to one of the weekend seminars....and it really helped too. Read the section on The Policy of Radical Honesty. When you're involved in an affair....you have to learn and make a habit of DIShonesty to cover up the affair. You can learn to make honesty a habit too....and you do that....by practicing honesty every day.

Even a very small lie or omission will set the dial back to zero in the trust department. The thing that will drive your wife away is not honesty....it's more lies.

Hang in there.

Brian, you don't need to find out WHY in order to fix it, you need to make a decision to stop doing it. You have full and complete control over your lying. Focusing on the PRESENT is the solution. You know right from wrong and true frm false, you simply CHOOSE to lie. You must stop making that choice. STOP. Who gives a damn WHY?

I know it is very hard to tell her the truth because it is hard to watch her reaction and face consequences, but please heed my advice lest you will be doomed to years of hale: suck your guts up and SPILL YOUR GUTS. No matter how bad, how ugly, how disgusting. Get it all over with in one fell swoop.

The faster you get it out, the faster this will be over and the quicker you all can recover.

If you have any silly notions about holding back tough stuff, you had better put those aside now, becasue she will smell it like a bloodhound and will get it out of you one way or another. It will come out easy or it will come out hard. But it's coming out. Don't make yourself die a death of a thousand cuts while she drags it out bit by bit and falls out of love with you in the process becsuse she is so disgusted.

That is the first step. The second is to make a decision to STOP LYING. The solution lies WITH YOU TODAY. Make that decision and PRACTICE honesty. Stop telling yourself you have to go to a "counselor" to find out WHY. you don't. You probably would never find out why anyway, nor is it the solution.

p.s. I second starfish's advice to get thee to a MB weekend. You and your wife will benefit enormously from it. You will also have direct access to Dr. Harley in guiding you through the MB program.

She left straight after work and went out with a friend stating that she needed some time. She came home drunk, with no ring on. When I asked her where do we go from here, she stated "I don't know". I don't know what actions to take from here. How do I let her know that I want to be honest after all this has taken place?

She is attempting to act like you?

Then you act correctly and show her. Right now your words mean little. Your deeds show more but even they will be questioned. Know this and keep moving forward. Expect her to doubt you but keep moving in a positive direction.

Learn how to hold your tongue, don't retaliate and move forward. When you can't handle it, find someone safe who will help get your balance back.

L.

Ok...here we go. We talked this morning and she said she still felt like there was something else and told me that we couldn't get through it if I didn't tell her everything, that there was no hope if there were still lies. After all the lies, I finally unloaded and told her that I had met the OW in another town and that we had slept together. So on top of having an EA, now she has to deal with me having a PA. She asked me some details, cried a little, punched me in the chest and then said that she needed some time and got in the car and left. I'm afraid that I have devastated her in order to show that I'm not selfish and telling the truth and now there is no hope. Everything is out now, but damn, it's been so much for her to take in with EA, lies and now a PA. Now I am here with my son and don't know what to do. PLEASE HELP ME!!!!!. I'm sorry to all for the other posting...I didn't think that people would come back to this one.

When she gets home, just comfort her. And don't allow her reaction to stop you from telling the truth. This is a step in the right direction! Is there more to tell her? If so, get it out there TODAY. Don't wait, Brian.

Comfort her how? She doesn't even want to be around me. There is no more...that was the last bit of it and boy was it hard getting out. What do I do if she asks me to leave?

Then be accomodating. She may ask you odd things during this time of frustration. Your A removed her safety net and she is scared.

Let your actions and some words show you are truly sorry. If she says stay away, then stay away but show proof you are being good. Have a 3rd party document or be your witness that you are NOT having an A.

If she wants to be mean to you, take it but don't let it go into the abuse mode. She is angry and upset which she has a right to be but abusive is not a right. Know the difference.

Keep up with your responsibilities. Read SAA and HNHN from Dr. Harley. Put them it into practice and call Jennifer C @ MB for a session AFTER you read those books.

Time and patience are now required to restore her trust in you. She may love but you wounded her love and she has to access how to deal with that wound.

You've got a lot to do.

L.

This is Brian's W.

Orchid, you're right; I shouldn't have punched him. I've never done that to him and won't do that again; I did appologize to him; that was unacceptable.

I left this am and called the OW; we talked and she filled me in on some details; all the same details Brian provided and then some..of course. They met on several occations for the PA and twice in our home/bed for a few day stint each time.

I came home and asked Brian a few questions; I knew the answer already; he didn't know I talked w/ the OW. He had a chance.. and lied some more. Then I told him I talked with the OW and he came clean... That's the problem; he got caught AGAIN and then came clean over some BIG stuff.

I do love my husband. But I have to think about me and our son. I told him no more for me; I deserve better!! I've tried this 4 times now and each time more lies. My life feels like that song by Tina Turner, "What's love got to do with it." Right now it's about our son and being the very BEST parents we can be. I'm afraid... I want to protect our child; not exactly sure how. We don't fuss in front of him; though he knows when there is tension in the air. I so wanted him to enjoy a family life.. I understand he still can; it will be different. I cry for him (our son) and I feel like a failure; I couldn't keep our family together.

We're not sure what to do about the living arrangements. Does he stay until the DV is final?

I'm hurt beyond words discription and feel sad for each of us; as crazy as it sounds even for the OW. What a mess.

Damn it, I told him to stop lying. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

lpwv, can I make a suggestion? I know you feel like divorcing him today, but you may not feel that way in a month. Can you hold off a few months on the decision?

It is very possible to turn this around and have a GREAT marriage with alot of hard work. We can help you do that, if you are willing to give this a shot.

I know you are very hurt and I am so sorry for your pain. {{{{{{lpwv}}}}}}}}}

MelodyLane,

I value your support and knowledge. I can wait to file. I have the DV papers and I can keep them for a little bit. He ordered the book, "How to Survive and Affair"; should be in Monday.

It's super hard to imagine being w/ him again. I've been reading strings all night and see so many other peoples pain... my heart goes out to all.

I imagine them having sex together and it makes me want to melt into darkness.

I'm a strong gal; but this is marriage #2; both ending in an A; this is really tough for me to hang in there. I keep thinking there has got to be someone out there that can respect and love me for who I am; who will want to be committed to me and care enough about my heart to take care of it.

I get about the EM needs not being met; I moved to his hometown (HT) 1 1/2 years ago; we agreed to that together. I was helping him achieve his dream. He was supposed to get a job here ASAP. That didn't happen, and the A kicked off 2 weeks after I left w/ our son to his HT. This gets me on so many levels. Were we probelm free? No. He felt I didn't give him enough affection or call him enough while at work; I felt unloved, controlled, and unaccpeted by him, but this was MY marriage; I wanted to grow together, learn, and apply our knowlege (counseling, etc.); I was in it for the long haul...he gets lonley and doesn't have me right there; he turns to another!!!! My previuos boss told me not to go; I told her we were strong; we could make it... I guess I'm about to learn that wasn't a good idea in making an A proof marriage.

I've made so many mistakes; I trusted him completely... I'm learning that's not the best policy either through this web site. I undestand that now.

Thank you for reaching out to me.. this one I can't handle on my own. I/ we pray often; I believe that's why so many things have come to light so quickly (not by him). We ask for God to take our family where it's supposed to go; lies have no room; it had to come out, somehow.

lpwv, has he ended ALL contact with the OW? That is the essential first step. He should send her a no contact letter that is outlined in SAA. [i will post a sample at the bottom]

I will give you a couple links that outline what it will take to recover from this. But the key thing is that all contact is ended FOREVER and that he open up his life to you with complete transparency by giving you passwords and staying in contact with you all day long.

Are you satisfied now that you have the FULL STORY?

Also, can you start up your own thread so you will each have your OWN threads? Let him have this one and go start one for yourself. That will make it easier to give you each the attention you need.

Read these links:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html

A no contact letter for him to write to the OW. This should be approved by you and MAILED BY YOU. [or he can email it with you standing by if easier]

[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

Thank you.

I appears he has NC w/OW. She confiemd that today as well. We were waiting for the book to come in (read it has sample NC letters)

I will start my own thread. I'm gong to read through these links.

lpwv,

Thank you for your update. Actually despite how crappy you feel, he is a bit farther than most. He is farther than my H was, I can tell you that but still not where he needs to be.

Btw, how old is your son. Our son was 5 when the A was exposed. He is now 13. The A lasted about 3 years with PBR (OW), he had ONS about 3x before he latched onto PBR (psycho babble rabbit). We are in recovery now but I can tell you it takes both to have a good recovery and it isn't easy.

I caution you NOT to believe all OW tells you and if she tries to give you more info..... ignore her.

One thing about the A, the need for control is a great craving for the WS and OP. The BS needs to get back in control and if you are willing to read up and implement the MB principals here, you will have good support to move forward. Whether that is with or w/o your Xws is your choice but you will be stronger and better as you move forward.

Btw, lying should not be tolerated. Let him explain why he felt the need to lie and then ask him if that need still exists. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The reason why I put it this way is because you both have to recover individually then if the M is still a goal you both have, then recovery together for the M and family is a must.

For now, please read SAA & HNHN (both by Dr. Harley). Then, let's talk. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

lpwv,

The source for his lies are anger and control issues.It appears that he still has no real desire to change because you have acknowledged your weakness/his strength four times previously.

His use of your marital bed bodes poorly as a prognostic factor. That is the ultimate "in your face" betrayal and shows the utter lack of respect he feels for you and your marriage. He lies because he can. He will continue until you show him that you believe NOTHING of what he says.

Stop all attempts at fixing a marriage that YOU can not fix. If he truly wants to fix the M, he will. Any impetus that comes from you will be seen as a sign of further weakness and while it may give the illusion of progress, it will not produce a lasting M.

Protect yourself and your child emotionally, physically, and ESPECIALLY financially.

Best of luck

Best of luck.

Great points. The first time tonight I've felt empowered. All advice is worthy and marriages are worth fixing; if willingly fixed by both parties.

I don't have to be "our" victim. I can move on from this and thrive. I do understand the disrespect associated with this; I told him so; I completely feel it. Each time he decided to lie/withhold information; it was taking my decision to be informed, be safe, and utlimately choose. Control has been a huge issue in this marriage and it must STOP!

"People treat you the way you allow them to treat you."

lpwv,

I see you have great survival skills and a beautiful attitude. Wouldn't want to be the one to get you mad. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Keep up the good work. Your inner beauty is shining through. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hugz,
L.