Hi guys, wrote to you but didnt answer to me and nobody else has offered any support. Maybe you can answer to me/
Justkeeping u were where my H has been, please help me.He is working at moment in Spain but is coming in 4 days to spend Christmas with us. I arranged Councelling for day after he arrives, how can i approche him, should i say something like:
I arranged C for us and would like u to come,
then he'll say: no,im too tired to go
If im more aggresive and say: i think u should come after all that has happened u owe me that much, we need to talk...
He doesnt want to talk about it much on the phone and i believe he is thinking that having profiles in adults sites has been wrong but is not a big deal and that i should get over it without talking much about it. You see i dont really know the extent of the relationship with two of these women. i think he could be lying as usual.
I am sending him articles of this site, like the rule of honesty, or Affairs on the Internet but im affraid he is so busy working he is not reading them.
Im implementing plan A by emailing, texting and ringing him and being nice to him. He says that i sound in great form but doesnt want to involve emotionally with me. He says i'll never forgive him 4 what he is done and that's it. This sounds to me like that he isnt really sorry for what he's done and doesnt realise how much he has hurt me.
Dont want to crowd him either while im implementing plan A
Justkeeping what do u mean i should maybe keep my boundaries if he things it wasnt a big deal and that i get over it.
What if he doesnt care wether i get over it or not because he things is going to be too difficult to recover a M that has always been so difficult?/
I would really appreciate ur help.!!

Hi Ar,

It sounds like a very challenging situation. There is one thing I believe I personally know that I hope is helpful.

I believe your focus on your Plan A must be a focus on your action steps without being "enmeshed" in any of your husband's negative emotions. I'll try to tell you what I mean... it may be hard for you to understand.

However, the less that you are "enmeshed" in your hurt feelings or your husband's responses that hurt your feelings... the more powerfully you can "walk out" your Plan A.

I believe you need to protect your emotional wellbeing. One way to do that is recognizing we all "react" to what we are most focussing on. (I'm sincerely looking to help you here... having not practised this, I think, in a way that was effective... and trying to "relay" what I think would have "worked for me". I'm really not sure if our makeups are enough alike that this will help you... but please evaluate and determine if it is something that will "strengthen you" in your Plan A.)

It's like there is a side of your H that you need to "reach" and "connect with" in order to restore love. But right now, a "side" has come out of him and is at the forefront that is not the "side" of your H that is the side that you need to connect with.

(Dr. Harley talks about a "taker" coming to the "forefront"... pushing a "giver" aside.)

There is "giving" and there is "reserve" on "your side" that you must "walk out" in an effective "Plan A"... to bring your H's "giver"... back out... in relation to you.

He must not feel threatened. Do you know what really, really "threatens a man"? (Guys, please let me know if I'm totally wrong here... it's things I've gathered from my own experience, reading, and stuff.. but I'm certainly not saying I'm some end all expert or anything. Just trying to give my POV.) Ans. A WOMAN'S HURT FEELINGS TOWARDS HIM.

Please don't kid yourself. He is not going to be "sensitive" to your hurt feelings at this time... as long as his "giver" towards you is not at the forefront of the relationship (as it is not when an H has an affair).

Therefore, an effective Plan A is not going to "call on him" to be sensitive to your hurt feelings over what he has done.

If you "lay on him" those hurt feelings of yours towards him at this time... this is what I believe happens: Rather than "pulling him towards you"... as it might if his "giver" was out in relationship with you and the bond was still strong and exclusive... the "weight" of those hurt feelings will cause his "taker" to look at you and think, "what's in it for me?" (that's how takers think).

And the taker will think, "nothing much... she's taking, taking, taking from me... and just plain "wearing me out" with laying her burdens on me".

A very fragile bond will have weight put onto it that it cannot, at this time, support.

Though it goes against all of our "emotional reasoning"... please don't call on this man... in your Plan A... to care about your feelings. Don't think a call to "see how much he has hurt you"... is going to do anything but drive this man away.

Please effectively Plan A in a way in which you remain calm, reasonable, and attractive emotionally... but (in his eyes)... "giving" and not "taking".

I have more to say because I want to support you in not emoting in a "hurt feelings" way that is not going to effectively help you restore this bond. Please call on others who really will support you in caring for you in your hurt feelings... and make it your goal to become strong and get over them.

I mean it. Your hurt feelings, in your H's eyes, may perhaps be the greatest "threat" to your attempts to regain his love. If so, would you agree that hurt feelings on your part... are not going to "help" restore that bond?

You've got to stay strong. And by "strong" that means not "falling" into "hurt feelings". If you don't "fall into them"... you won't "threaten" your H with them.

This is about ACTION! And all I know is that you must have a strong strategy and focus on the action that is going to produce the desired result.

Against all of our humanity as BS's... "hurt feelings" are not a "badge of honor"... we can afford to wear in relation to a WS we want to "win back".

I love you... I feel for you as I write that... because it is not from a heart that is callous towards your sufferings. It's more as a "coach" (who has learned from her mistakes)... who knows that she knows that she knows... this is how she "blew it"... and wants to see you "win".

And if any way I seem or sound insensitive... I sincerely apologize. That is not my heart, motive, or intent.

But if you want me "on board" to support you in your Plan A... as a coach... I would come "on board" to discourage you from emoting or expressing "hurt feelings" towards the H in any way... in word, or deed in relation to him... callign you to "play it cool"... and "win"... and bring his "giver" back out into the open in the exact opposite way our "hurt feelings" would deceptively tell us "will work".

I do want to help... but don't want to impose... and do not want to injure you in any way.

Have a great day.

Okay Back, I'll respond. You are totally offbase here. A woman's feelings toward a man do NOT threaten a man.

"Feelings" of others threaten someone who is weak and want's "everyone to love them and think they are the best person in the whole wide world."

What you seem to be projecting here are your own feelings, and speaking about them in the "3rd Person" as if they belonged to someone else, in this case...Men. What you seem to be projecting is that "feelings" control behavior, reducing men, and women, to "instinctive creatures" only and removing free will CHOICES concerning behavior.



And this is so far offbase from what is needed that what you are advocating is denial and dishonesty. Back, a WS must also see the intense pain that their actions have caused. In "affair proofing" a marriage little helps a recoverying WS than KNOWING how deeply and profoundly their past actions have hurt the one they love to keep them from repeating such and being the cause of such pain.

P.S. I also know that I know that I know that I know... all I personally have to do is "play it cool"... and my ex is back. No matter what anyone on this site says... I know what the Lord has told me.

uh huh. You "presume" upon the Lord to do what YOU want done. That's an interesting position, Back, but wholly unScriptural.

"Nevertheless, Father, not my will but yours be done."

FH,

I think I may need to get out one of Dr. Harley's books and quote from it to say what I mean and am relaying here in paraphrase for consideration.

If it is wrong... no, I wouldn't want her to take the advice.

But her husband is very, very concerned "she'll never forgive him".

He's saying that he's concerned about her hurt feelings (not in a way that's concerned for her... but for how he feels... himself.)

He's speaking for her emotionally. He's enmeshed himself. He isn't speaking for himself.

So we need to "translate" and see that if he was speaking for himself, what would he be saying?

That's what we need to look at, imo.

I'll need to quote Dr. Harley... again, am not a person who wants to debate.

He must not feel threatened and she must deposit into his love bank to win.

There is a time for all things in recovery...

"am not a person who wants to debate."

This you have made eminently clear to me.

But it would be a good idea to quote Dr. Harley and other experts in recovery to be clear as to what IS said, and to be certain to include the entire context in which something is said.

FH,

I am prayerfully lead of the Lord personally. Are u saying you know God's will for my life?

That's extremely presumptuous... and judgmental.

I wish you the best... and I thank you that I personally believe there is sincere concern underlying your statements. Yet, I sincerely believe it is misguided.

How I follow the Lord Himself is what matters... not following someone else.

This is why God gives us the inward witness of the Holy Spirit and why we each have our own personal relationship with Him. We need to follow the Lord in personal relationship... and Jesus Christ, not even other Christians, is our intermediary between us and God.

I will be lead of the Lord personally. Your doctrine may not be right. You haven't considered that... though you are free to apply your own understanding to your own life.

Have a great day.

I need to get ready and go into work on a Saturday. With grace, I'm working on some large deals... with a wonderful Christian young man who is bipolar. The challenge of the opportunities are compounded by his challenges in "walking out" incredible opportunity... without losing his emotional equillibrium.

I smile and chuckle and think it's a great test I'm certain to grow from.

Blessings and I'll be back when I can... and I'll look up Dr. Harley's books. I have 2 out that I've been re-reading... and I have others that I think may be in boxes in my basement or in a spare room.

I'll look for them or... oops!... shouldn't be a problem for Dr. Harley... may have to go to the bookstore and just buy a couple if they somehow got lost in a move.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I highly recommend the books!!!

"He says I'll never forgive him 4 what he is done and that's it." - Dare him to trust you. If you think you can forgive him, than assure him that you can and you will. Much strength to you!

OK... on the site here are excerpts from Dr. Harley's books. I quickly clipped and pasted this... suggested reading on "unfaithful husbands"... there is info available to read right from the site - but I recommend getting all the books and studying.

I don't have time to go into what I am seeing for paraphrase... I seem to recall something specific Dr. Harley said... but I could quickly grab this. (It's along the lines of what I was thinking... and, again, please feel free to evaluate all "non expert" advice based on what Dr. Harley teaches.)

Excerpt (and please feel to read more on the site):

From the way you describe your husband, I would assume that you are tempted to smother him in Love Busters: Angry outbursts, disrespectful judgments, selfish demands. You have been deeply hurt, and you want to retaliate. But you'll only be shooting yourself in the foot if you make him suffer for what you've been through. Resist the temptation because it's in your best interest for him to love you and care for you. He won't do either unless you deposit love units and avoid withdrawing them in his Love Bank.

My opinion... all hurt feelings drain the love bank... and it's deposits that are needed.

Aranchaa, let him know that you will give him an opportunity to EARN your trust, but that trust must be EARNED. Regaining trust is HIS JOB, not yours. Nor is he ENTITLED to your trust after he has broken it. Trust is not an entitlement and you would be crazy to trust an untrustworthy person. He must EARN that trust by behaving in TRUSTWORTHY manners.

So let him know that you are WILLING to allow him to EARN your trust and show him various ways he can do this, ie: giving you all his passwords, complete transparency.


Perhaps not. But it is possible if he strives to JUSTLY COMPENSATE you. But he must EARN forgiveness. What is he willing to do to EARN IT? Will he take steps to justly compensate you? Please read Dr Harley's article on forgiveness and just compensation: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html

Also, I would second starfishs recommendation that you do phone counseling with Steve Harley. It will be worth every penny.

Exactly! Great advice, imo.

Do NOT play into the negative... move to the positive... talk about forgiveness... focus on it... be strong!!!!

True strength is in being positive... and not playing into any of his fears... but squealching them... and doing so by moving to solutions.

Play it cool. Be positive. Stay strong!!!

Aranchaa, another very important element here is the fact that your H travels for a living. That will make recovery impossible unless you travel with him. Traveling jobs are invitations to adultery. The condition that led to adultery will have to be removed in order to recover the marriage.

Don't forgive or promise forgiveness unless it is contingent upon JUST COMPENSATION, Aranchaa. It is not in either of your best interest to do so. Promise only to give him the opportunity to EARN IT.

I'm sorry Back. I am not "rising" to your bait.

You made it clear that are NOT interested in actually discussing Scripture anytime it might "conflict" with your opinions. You then "run for the hills" and stop all communication about what the Scripture does and does not say because it might "interfere" with what you want to believe.

So discussing doctrine or anything else of Scripture with you would be an exercise in futility. I tried that, gave you your own thread where that could be discussed civilly and rationally, and you chose to run away.

With respect to my beliefs, I am willing to discuss them and why I believe them. You are not.

Therefore, you are welcome to your opinions regardless of how judgmental they are and how you "feign" being hurt and insulted that anyone would "dare" to be judgmental of another person's beliefs.

You CAN'T know what I believe Back because I gave you the opportunity to discuss those beliefs, and you ran away.

Discussion is, apparently, NOT in your vocubulary. All that does seem to be in your vocabulary is "whatever Back wants, Back is entitled to and Back will get." It's an interesting philosophy, but not one that I agree with.

I guess we'll just have to leave it up to others on the system, and ultimately to God Himself, to determine who may be "misguided" in how they surrender to Him rather than try to "use Him" to get what they want and who may be "misguided" in their understanding of what God has revealed to us in His Word.

I don't understand this thread. What are you all doing debating religion with a lunatic in someone else's thread? As if there's even a chance of it going anywhere.

Aranchaa, hows it going? I don't know if I can help you but I will try.

Tyk,

I have no interest in debating. I have stated that repeatedly (and again on this thread).

I have stated support for a person in a Plan A to be positive, and stay as strong as possible by remaining positive and focussing on solutions.

I am not a "lunatic". In their logic... some are saying I "want their attention". No, I do not want their attention. (Which would be akin to "wanting" the attention of a person determined to "beat you up".) I've stated repeatedly I want them to focus their attention on positive matters... and have put a number on ignore. I've made every effort to try to "rise above" it.

I'm sorry that FH got on here and expressed frustration towards me. But I can't "control" FH.

I have read most of Dr. Harley's books.

I "coach people" in real life implementing plans, focussing on goals, taking action steps, remaining positive, and achieving goals.

I'm not "defining" what the poster's "Plan A" looks like.

I support people in focussing on achieving clearly defined goals. Professionally (in what I do professionally) one of the first things is to "write down" the Plan, define clearly measurable goals, state activities that will lead to achievement of the goals, define the action steps, and implement the plan.

Then one measures results and quantifies/measures achievement/success... to stay "on track" with a plan.

One measures activity... and focusses on action... and it lifts a person up... and puts them on the path... to success. I've been involved in aiding numerous persons in achieving their defined plans and goals.

I am a professionally trained and certified planner, and manager, who helps people implement plans.

It's what I do...

I wouldn't "create the plan" in this case of a "Plan A"... but I support achievemant of the goals thereof.

If the poster wants the support of a person who professionally aids and motivates others to successfully achieve their own stated goals in a plan... etc... I offered support.

Have a great day.

[color:"red"] Here's some wisdom from JL (cut and pasted from another thread... with another post to follow by JL [/color]

And you point is????

You seem to be waiting for him to fix this. Wrong answer.

You have skills, you have talents, you have motivation, so start thinking about this as you suspect he might. Start to learn to speak HIS language. Start to develop a plan for being the W YOU want to be and make it so it is the W he wants as well.

First and foremost YOU need a detailed plan. Your plan cannot be like my diet plans. "I plan to lose 20 lbs." That is not a plan, that isn't even a goal, that is a wish. When one gets serious, they have a detailed plan, with timelines, ideas, fall back positions, how to handle disappointment, and most of all GOALS. Not just "I want to be happy or with him." I want a, b, c, d, e, f, and I am willing to do 1, 2, 3, ... to reach that goal.

You have goals for your career. You have a plan for how to reach those goals. Time to do the same for your marriage and emotional life.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

[color:"red"]Well, here's more wisdom from JL speaking for males on "how to get"... the H. It's positives that produce positive results.: [/color]

PSSST Married,

Just a little secret from the male fraternity. The more you let him in, the more you love and respect him...THE MORE YOU HAVE GOT HIM.

So I am not saying the word control. But, I think you will find that as you learn to love, open up, and respect him, the more you'll have "got him"

Funny how that works isn't it???? The thing you wanted and felt safest doing (controlling) is the very thing that led to your loss of control. Told you these things were nonlinear when you got here, and now you are seeing not only are they nonlinear they are counter intuitive as well.

This is sounding like real progress Married. You and your H are to be congratulated.

God Bless,

JL