Here's one more thing. I had nearly blocked it out entirely, and I'm disgusted, absolutely disgusted with myself for this:

About an hour after I caught them, we had sex.

I don't know why. I can barely remember it. I sure wasn't horny. I was insane. I don't know why my W went along with it, I don't know why I did it.

I've only done one thing in my life that truly made me feel real disgust for myself, and that was it.

Until now, only her and I knew about it.

Damn, man ... I don't know what to say. I know its probably not very manly, but I feel so sorry for what you had to endure (and continue to endure) ... I truly can't imagine what that must be like.

I try to relate things to my own experiences, but my situation just wasn't that "intense". However, I do feel "cheated" at times ... not just over the infidelity ... but also because I never got the chance at any type of "satisfaction" with the OM, and I can only imagine that those feelings are "off the charts" for you.

Amateur pyscholanalysis here, but do you think this unresolved issue with the OM is the source of your anger towards your W? ...that he took something that belonged to you ... your W won't "give" it back ... and you missed the opportunity to "take" it back from him?

I know I have these "self worth" issues re: OM at times, which usually causes me to get into a "funk" towards my W. Obviously, I don't have the answers, but sometimes it helps just to know what the real issue is.

I wish I could buy you a beer, but all I can do is wish you Good Luck in you quest for resolution.

Krazy,

I don't think that you are that uncommon in vaing sex with your wife on d-day. I don't know that it has ever been addressed in a thread here before, but I bet you are not alone. I can't site the study, it was a long time ago, but I recall something about the difference in sperm in different circumstances and there is a battling for superiority sperm that is produced in certain situations.

In know in my real life, the few people that I have talked to about the infidelity in their marriage had the same experience you did, myself included.

Again, maybe I am reaching for straws, but do you have regrets about how you handled that horrifying d-day. Do you feel any shame about not doing OM harm? I am not a man, but you spoke like you thought you should have at least made him seek medical care.

How much of your feelings of who you are as a man were affected that day? What I don't know is if it is your job to heal that , or it that WW's job. Hopefully you can get some advice from the BH's on the board.

PS: I think that being there as a father to your children is a helluva lot more manly than serving time for killing some POS OM

Krazy:

I just want to let you know that I cried when I read the story you just posted. I put myself in your shoes (althought I'm a BW), and couldn't help crying loud while reading...

And that helps me understand you more about your anger and your pain...

I didn't have such a dramatic encounter. But my rage echoes the same way as yours after Dday.

And also I wanted SF so much after Dday. I felt ashamed of that also. But now I am getting better. I couldn't understand that either, but a wise lady called "anyname" in this board gave me an explanation. She had SF every night with FWS for two years after Dday. I am not sure if this applies to everybody, but for some, me inluded, the heightend SF drive after Dday is partly fueled by insecurity and human nature.

I used to feel so ashamed and ask myself why, why my desire suddenly get so strong with such a man and I felt there was something wrong with me...But I slowly recognized this part of human nature and made peace with it...And I even venture to think that the physical part during A is also fueled by the insecure nature of it since during A, there was no true commitment.

So please don't beat yourself up in this respect. From my own experience and some others experience I know of, it's complete normal for some people and please don't feel ashamed of that.

My H and me are making great progress in recovery. I experience the same kind of issue as you do. My desire is still very high and his is still low. And one strange thing is that my SF drive was close to zero before his confession of the A. We had SF only about 5 or 6 times a year after kids were born mainly because of my low S drive. But now everything is so different and it's just strange. I want it all the time and H has performance anxiety now. And I have learned to control myself a bit and things are getting better.

One thing I learned during this very difficult time for both of us is that anger doesn't us anything. I have been having angry outbursts and LB all over the place for many many times this year. And I just couldn't help it. It happens and it takes a life of its own when it's triggered. So I do understand your pain and your anger and your outburst and how it's just so hard to contain sometimes.

Just recently I realized that this is not getting us anywhere and I started to change my ways. I start to build my self love and I start to communicate calmly my negative feelings. I'm still learning and I'm not there yet. But I see great results because of my self care. When I become happy with myself again, I see my H become so happy also and everything impoved. I still back slide a lot, I just had another explosion last weekend. But I apologied to him.
I realized that yes, my anger is justified, but it didn't justify my angry outburst and my verbally attacking him and hurt him...I feel even worse out my explosion and I need to stop it for my own sake and for my marriage's sake.

Another thing is that we need to build intimacy and we should put that before the SF. We need to become friends with our S first. I have had a huge problem with that because of my anger, but now I come to realize that the way I behave won't get me anywhere. And our intimacy builts up quickly when I stop my destructioin. We started to talk and we started to feel real close. That's the ultimate goal.
Just like you, I need to find an outlet for my anger also and I'm still struggling with that.

Krazy, I just want to let you know that your feelings are normal and there are a lot here that feels the same way. But we do need to find a way to put the anger in the right place and stop the destruction it could cause yourself and your marriage if that's what you want to save.

Best of luck to you and hope you find peace in your heart.

LovingAlong

LovingAlong,

Thank you for taking the time to read it. It was hard to type.

Krazy,

I know your getting a lot of responses to your thread. Hard to respond to them all, I'm sure.

I hope you will take some time to at least briefly answer the questions I asked you in my post on the previous page.

And let me say... I'm so sorry for what you went through. I can't even begin to imagine....

--SC

Smartcookie,


I will ASAP..this is a crazy day at work! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Smartcookie,

For a variety of reasons, she had built up resentment and demonized me for a long, long time. She said she felt like leaving, but didn't have the nerve. She thought to herself at the time, "Fine. You want me to stay? I'll stay, but I'll have my fun and get revenge, too."

She was living with one foot out the door for a long time. She figured if she didn't get caught, fine...if she did, she'd be single. No big deal either way.

I'm paraphrasing, but that's what she told me.

She also claims that she was going to inform OM that she was done seeing him before he left that day, due to her being pregnant and her newfound desire to work on her M.

I know that "I was ending it" is right out of the cheaters' handbook, but I think that maybe, just maybe, she honestly believes it. I'll never know for sure, because I ended the A, not her. Is it ever true?

Then again, she claims she never had an O with OM by choice. She can have them easily, but she claims that it was like a boundary to her (nice boundaries, I know). She wouldn't use our bed, made him pull out, etc. She says that even though having an A is awful, she had these "boundaries" that she wouldn't cross WITHIN the A.

Does that sound plausible, or is it just minimizing in your opinion? Is it even possible she's telling the truth, or am I fooling myself?

This ain't smart cookie,

but uhm:

sorry dude [but at least on this issue]-- "YOUR FOOIN YOURSELF"!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Or to be more precise,
she's STILL FOOLIN YOU .....and sadly your [maybe] buying it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Just add it to the WS List:
you know the one:
*they Always Used protection,
they always took their wedding rings off,
they Never said I love you,
they never discussed YOU or your sex life , ect*........yep sure right. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Top Rope,

Were you referring to the "I was ending it" cliche?

This A was a little different...they would meet every 2 or 3 months on average, for a quickie. No gifts, no dates, no deep emotions on either side. Very little communication in bewteen "meetings".

They were f_ckbuddies, but barely even counted as "buddies". They used each other.

That's why it wasn't much of a stretch to think she could easily discard him.

"inform OM that she was done seeing him before he left that day"

"she never had an O with OM"

"she claims that it was like a boundary to her"

"She wouldn't use our bed, made him pull out"

"She says that even though having an A is awful, she had these boundaries that she wouldn't cross"

WW lies to lessen your pain and her pain. To calm you down, damage control, not have to admit the truth as to the what when where who why how questions were asked by you. WW advoiding her feeling pain having to admit to the truth.

Sorry to not be clearer there Krazy.
Easy to misinterpret in this medium sometimes
(you'd think I'd get that by now, huh?) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

First,
I was simply adding your W's bull stuff to the endless mountain of Other WS's lies and half truths.
As a result,
I was simply using some of the classics as examples to go along with what your W was [eh' em] saying.
I was in no way implying that she Used any of the examples I listed.

Now as to your own list,
indeed your last sentence was asking are you being played for a fool.
I stated IMO yes, you are. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Your last post itself points this out.
OK,
lets just take everything that you yourself have stated.
The ENTIRE relationship was based on SEX, pleasure and using each others bodies.
That means No attachment, no deep meaning, no permanent feelings.

Alright,
got it.
I'll take that at face value ......more of that going on then people want to believe.

However,
you then can't have it BOTH ways (with what your attempting to believe).

After convincing us all that its only about the SF,
then we are supposed to swallow that she never had an O in all the times they hooked up,
and even straight faced claims it was By Choice??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

That doesn't even pass the 1st grader test. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Please,
IF the A is all about the Sex and hooking up (with NO other type of bonding)......yet "by choice" WW NEVER has orgasms ---
Then there would be NO POINT to getting together.

No one gets together repeatedly for sex, with someone they (allegedly) have no other connection with .....and doesn't get the pay off.

Makes absolutely NO Sense what so ever.

Why?
Cause the sex, pleasure and fun WERE THE ENITIRE reason for them coming together.

So there is one lie that your W just didn't think all the way through.
Lies tend to pop out [in the moment} like that.

On the one hand she says its only sex,
which spares your feelings as you think it was just bodies and not hearts and minds.

OK,

But then she claims no orgasms,
as to protect your Manhood and your sense of sexuality.

Can you see where EITHER story by itself, you could probably accept ........but that when forced together into reality and examined at the same time.......they really make no sense and one or Both are not true.

Anyway, that's what I was more so inferring in my first post.

This is one reason why soooo many WS do NOT Want to continue talking about the details of their affairs.
Because upon further review and deeper scrutiny,
many of the lies they want to continue to conceal end up contradicting one another and they end up exposing themselves with their own testimony.

And as far as the "I was ending it on the very night you JUST HAPPENED to walked in" part
.....oh brother.......that is patterned after the strategy of:
"if you saw us kiss" --- all we did was kiss
"if you caught us one time" ---- that was the first/only time
"if you only know about Oral" --- then all we did was oral ......ect, ect, ect
Are ya picking up the pattern there. Hope so.

Guess it comes down to WS lie. And lie Big time.

Question becomes are you the type that needs those lies to be amended in order to move forward?
I know I did, as it began to prove to me [with an action] that my W was at least beginning to "get it" and that our relationship did indeed mean more to her then protecting her memories of her A.

Only you can answer what you need though.
I wish you success in figuring out what that is and how to get it.

OK, how do I convince her to admit the truth after 17 months?

Yes, I do need the truth to move on, and I don't think I'm getting it now.

You may never get the whole truth. And maybe that would be for the best. If you got the whole truth and nothing but the truth, what other mind-movies would you see? I know some of the facts of my H's A, but not all. I don't want to know all. The little that I do know sometimes drives me crazy. My mind works overtime with images.
I do not think you are being selfish in wanting your W to want you. You are married. You are supposed to be partners. She is not supposed to want anyone else. Nine months after a birth is long enough. I only waited 6-8 weeks after my children were born, and then I got my drive back. I know it is different for every woman, but 9 months?
I want my FWH to want me just like you want your FWW to want you. So far, in that respect, we are doing fine. I hope that you can get this situation worked out, so the other issues can be taken care of.

(Not)Krazy,

All that stuff about what she did or didn't do with OM... or whether or not she intended to end it... who knows? It does sound wacky and contradictory to her statement that it was all about sex/strange/pleasure. The only problem I have with discounting it outright is that waywardness itself is not logical, rational, consistent, etc. If waywards were thinking straight... well... they wouldn't be waywars would they?

But while you hash out that part of the picture with others... I'd like to refocus your attention on the first half of your post and the questions I posed earlier. This part:



And these questions:


See... all that stuff about building up resentment toward you and having one foot out the door makes sense. But she could have chosen to deal with it in any number of ways.

--divorcing you.
--putting arsenic on your powdered donuts.
--flipping you the bird every time you turned your back on her.
--putting ex-lax in your brownies. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

You get the idea.

But the question is: Why did she choose to "get her revenge" by having an affair... and why did she get such a charge out of using and being used by OM to boot?

Let me put it another way. What was it about HER (not you or your marriage) that led her to make that choice... and to actually ENJOY the cold, calouse f-ing of OM?

Do you see where I'm going with this?

People have affairs because there's something broken, damaged, deficient inside themselves. And it doesn't sound as though, from what you've written, that she has identifed what that is. Much less addressed it.

She needs to answer some questions:
Why did she have the affair? (and revenge against you is not an acceptable answer.)
Why did she enjoy using OM and being used by him? (and revenge against you is not an accptable answer.)


I know this post is getting really long... but before I close, I just want to reveal to you my bias here.

I'm a FWW and a childhood sexual abuse survivor.

I cheated on my husband twice. Once in 1996, a ONS. And again in 2005, a 6 week or so affair.

In the middle of the ONS, I became so horrified at what I was doing, I stopped it, mid-act, if you will. After the OM left... I remember lying prone, pounding my fists on the bed, sobbing, and screaming.. "Why, why, why did I do that? Stupid, stupid, stupid!!!" I hated myself, felt physically ill over it, and vowed I would never let it happen again. I also didn't tell ANYONE about it, including my husband.

But... and here's the important part... I never really answered my own question -- why?

Over the next nine years... I continued to let all those hurt, broken, deficient parts of ME fester... never answering the question of why. And in the meantime, the state of my marriage continued to disintigrate... and I continued to build up loads of resentment against my husband (for a variety of reasons, just like your wife).

And then history repeated itself. Only then did I begin to do some real soul searching. And I discovered some, shall we say, "unpleasant" things about myself. I also, finally, started healing those old, old wounds of childhood sexual abuse... which... as it turned out... were the root of many of the "unpleasant things about myself" that I had dragged into adulthood. (Does that make sense?)

So once again... my question is... what emotional/mental crap is your wife carrying around? Where does it come from? And what is her plan to heal/fix it?

I believe those questions are at the core of her personal and your marital recovery. When, and only when, she figures out the answers to those questions will she be able to take responsibility for her actions... be completely truthful with you... and begin to heal herself and her relationship with you (including your sexual relationship.)

--SC

Bump

Sorry for the shameless bump.

Still no progress in this area...it just continues to get worse. I can feel myself becoming more resentful every day.

I've told my W this. Her response is always something like, "It's not like I want to have sex with someone who feels that way about me."

So, there you have it. A catch-22. I'm not going to be a "good boy" without being rewarded, and she's not going to give rewards until I am a "good boy".

By good boy, I mean my attitude must improve. Less anger, less sadness, more trust, and less obsessing about the A in general.

I swear that sometimes I think you've got to be borderline retarded in some way to have an A in the first place. They all act so f_cking stupid.

Very true. However, you might want to refrain from saying this to your wife as it will not help things along.

Well, Krazy, I'm currently in a SEXLESS M, so I can't help ya there.

I can only say that, recently, I've stopped obsessing over it, and it has helped me. I'm not saying all is great and well, but *I* don't feel like sh!te and ANGRY all of the time.

I swear, I thought the resentment was going to eat me alive.

I hope other BH's can help you out.

I know better than that. I'm usually FAR more diplomatic. Not ALWAYS, but usually.

You should hear some of the stuff she says! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />