Krazy,

I hear you ... you were upset and may have embellished the conversation between you and your W due to your anger.

However, even with that in mind, I have to agree with the others. Man, you've tried your heart out, but you're killing yourself. I've been one of your biggest cheerleaders ... you are a damn fine man to have tolerated what you have, but you are not getting better ... in fact, I've noticed a downturn in your mood through the tone of your recent posts.

Please, protect yourself and at least, consider moving on with your life. You're a good man that deserves more than what life threw at you.

Distance yourself from the source of your anger/misery.

Ok, well in that case, you need to stop bringing OM into your lives by talking about him, and using his short existence in your wife's life as ammunition againt her. Certainly, I advocate bringing up problems and triggers, but saying nasty things to your wife is OUT.

Would you have treated her this way pre-A? Why start now?

Sure, raise the bar, but don't slap her with it every chance you get. When you feel anger raising and you are about to say something nasty, WALK AWAY.

Hi Krazy:

You know I think you are doing pretty well. I saw this quote and it sure brought back memories of my marriage.

Wouldn't it be great as a guy if you could just say: "Well I will go to work and bring home a paycheck for you this month if you treat me right and have plenty of sex with me. Not just cause I want to but because you love me and want too also. If you do not want to meet my needs then I really don't feel like going to work anymore until things change.

Can you imagine what that would do to marriages? But some how if it is sex that is being withheld it is not so bad.

That I guess would have been my fantasy. To have my wife go to work and pay the bills why I golf all day. And if she does all of that and support me well then I will go ahead and have SF with her. Even if I don't enjoy it but I will do it.

There is really nothing you can do about it. Nothing I did ever helped my situation and I tried a lot of different things including counseling. The only thing I will say is if you allow her to do it (or not do it) that is what she will do.

I had the same problem pre-affair but she chose to find another guy to have SF with instead of me. If a woman does not want to have sex with you there is little that can be done.

Now having said that there is a lot she can do to change things. When I filed fo divorce my now XW said she would do anything but for me I wanted out.

You have to decide what you will allow and can accept. Your only 2 choices are to leave or stay. No one can give her a pill to change she will have to do it on her own. If you are unwilling to leave if she does not change then there is nothing you can do.

Krazy71

I used to think that your posts and replies always had an element of anger that just seemed like it would never recede.
But now I believe I see from your W's statements to you, that it was indeed HER that was continuing to fuel this anger.

Had my W said things like that to me, I would have insisted she leave the family home. I would have packed her suitcases for her!

Your W still seems to be in a state of selfish entitlement and as such, expects you to " excuse" her adultry, rather than repenting and asking for full forgiveness.

I cannot see how this could ever be sucessful in restoring your M. It will not work!

Your W is pregnant and I can see how very much you want this to work, but it is your W who has the lion's share of earning to be done, not you!

Hang in there, but consider the need to radically change all of this in the very near future.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Nah, I treated her like a queen.

I started on d-day, when my life was shattered.

But you are right. I should stop bringing up OM. It's just not easy when I feel like he and my W caused all of this, and I've got to clean up the mess, so to speak.

She didn't exactly fuel my anger. My anger was/is like a nuclear reactor. It keeps going all on its own. My anger has caused problems, no doubt. I have been guilty of being too angry, too resentful, and plain mean. I have also been guilty of punishing her, although it wasn't a conscious effort at the time.

Oh, and she's not pregnant now...I was referring to her last pregnancy...our daughter is 15 months old now and doing well. My W was about 6 weeks along and knew it, when I busted her on d-day.

Once again,
It is your W who has the lion's share of cleaning up the mess she left in the wake of her A.


all blessings,
Jerry

How hard would she fight you for custody and division of assets? Have you guys discussed D at all? Do you live in a fault state?

It's truly whacked how the courts don't take adultery into account. She can have all the fun of an affair, dictate the terms of recovery, and when you've had enough and pull the D trigger she will likely get the children and half of everything. Charming.

They certainly caused all the trauma that you are living with. You didn't DO that to yourself.

In this state, we'd have joint custody and split the assets 50/50, unless I become a crack dealer or something.

So why are you still there?

Not taking into account what she's done or what's she's doing... answer this:

Do you love her? Did you mean it when you got married?

How long will you hold onto your anger?

Even if you divorce, will the anger go away?

How does all this anger in your marriage affect your daughter? Kids know more than you think they do, even little ones.

How long does this go on?

What are you going to do about it?

This is no way to live.

OK, gotcha now. WOW, it almost feels good to hear from someone just like I was. My anger and DJ and LB hit it's peak at two years from DDay. For the record, I am now closing in on 6 years from DDay.

Didn't have this place for the first couple of years. Wish I had, the voice of reasoning so to speak .

Takes a man(or woman) a long time to soften their heart after infedelity. A very long time. Anyone who tells you they are completely R'd after two years, is IMO, simply trying their best to convince themselves of that. (No disrespect meant to those who feel that way).

I hate when folks say everything will be honky dorry after two years. It just isn't so, IMHO. But that's just me.

I still to this day have issues, but that is my problem. I think part of your anger is that you somehow EXPECTED more of yourself. I know I certainly did. Simply didn't happen that fast.

Can you be patient for now? Find other avenues to direct your anger and bitterness. Ever thought about getting a punching bag to really work out your frustarations on. It really does work.

If I can help, call out.

All Blessings,
Jerry

Wow Jerry thanks for saying that about being angry for expecting more from YOURSELF. I would have to agree with that statement.

I am pretty close to being as angry as Krazy is although i will admit that i no longer say things about the OW (but then again i didn't walk in on it either). I have finally decided to not let her have anymore of my life she took enough already. I am not sure what i would do if i saw her in a dark alley though

I figured that once i decided i would forgive my H and let him come home and try to work on our M my anger would ease, but it hasn't and i did expect more from MYSELF.

I don't think I'm angry at myself for the lack of progress, just angry about it in general. I thought after 2 years things would be far better than they are.

Instead, on a good day I only think about the A a few times, and wish death on OM once or twice.

I can hold a job and not kill anyone, so I'm hesitant about ADs...besides, I don't want anything dulling my pain. I will learn from this pain...I already have to a certain extent.

This was excellent, graplin.....something I am dealing with and will continue for awhile (its all about me right.... ;)). And the worst part is if WS DOES in fact do those things for you, it only seems to make things worse.....how to get out of this tangled-web they weaved?????

Krazy....

I hear ya man. I haven't posted to you, and my first thoughts when you wrote this many months ago, "what an [censored]". But then I see that your anger is not so very different from my own. And unfortunately, I HAVE expressed it to WS. So I say better here than there.....

praying for ya....

not2fun

Krazy and Crazy,
Stop thinking your are somehow K R A Z Y!!!!!!!

I'm here to tell you what it took me so many years to truly discover. Anyone who is COMPLETLY recovered after two years is not normal, IMHO. They are kidding themselves into thinking that it is now over, but they are also lying to themselves just to get along.

Don't believe me, ask Bob Pure if he feels that way after 4 plus years. He finally admited that he is hurting like hell.

this doesn't go away overnight and trying to put a timeline to it simply doesn't work.

I so remember the song " Mr bojangles" where his dog up and died,,,,, and after twenty years he still grieves.

Don't put yourself into some outside imposed timeline. It will take you as long as it takes. Period!!

Just my humble thougts,

All Blessings,
Jerry

I have to say the first six months after I found out about my FWW I really was basing my recovery on the fact I didn't kill anyone that day, it was a good day overall. It actually scared me that even though I really only wanted to see one certain man stop breathing after various torture techniques spread out over a week or so, I found myself having to control my anger/rage/murderous intent with clients at work, friends, waiters, bus drivers, domino's pizza delivery etc I fully understand the term "blind rage" now.

I think you have learned a great deal already if you walked in on your pregnant wife and you're not in prison right now.

That's precisely what I'm trying to convey to you Krazy.

You put certain expectations on yourself and your R that were unrealistic and not in keeping with your perssonality.

Now you need to get real and learn the difference.

All blessings,
Jerry

sh@@, this ain't easy stuff is it?

Krazy,

Do you WANT to recover your marriage?

Have you been to MC or IC?

Have you counseled with the Harleys?

If I knew where you guys lived, I'd be tempted to drive over there right now and just kick your WW's butt. She has a lot of nerve to ask you to "earn" anything. I wish you could gain full custody of the kids and have her pay child support.

OK, sorry, I guess I'm not "Marriage Building" at the moment, but nothing makes me much madder than someone with such a sense of entitlement.