I read on LilSis's thread some comments you made regarding her WS embedding 'choices'...

The choice was

In Person
By Phone
Via Email


My question to you (and to others.. I address this to you because you skirted the issue on LilSis's thread and it got me thinking).. how -telling- is it about the level of conflict within a person when they refuse to confront these major life changing issues (divorce, infidelity etc) in a face to face setting and instead choose to deal with all of the uncomfortable things from a distance.. either by phone or email.

I ask with the motivation to gain some insight into what I've felt the entire four months I've been separated from my WW.

She told me she wanted a divorce in a handwritten note.. and in that note asked me to -call- her to discuss it that evening. First thing I asked her on the phone when I called was if we could do this face to face.. and she said no.. we haven't had a face to face conversation about -us- since.

She has distanced herself from her family and those she was close to before and throughout our marriage.. failing to return phone calls to DSD's grandparents (DSD's grandfather is also DS's Godfather).. and now she's had it out with and 'broke up with' her dad and sisters via email..

Her sister and dad have both stated that they 'feel' she's very conflicted about what she's doing.. and that is why she's distancing herself from -everyone- who really knows what happened in our marriage, her life prior to me... it's no coincidence that the people who know her best refuse to support this choice of hers.. and she's now cut all of us who actually care about her off...

Any insights?

I didn't want to T/J LilSis's thread to get into this.. I feel it could be a very productive discussion for many of us here who now have to deal long distance with our WS's.. and notice a dramatic difference in their ability or willingness to interact with us on a level that is not at all personal (such as email)..

James, my 2 cents...

I know myself I will start to distance myself from situations that I think can be hurtful, upsetting,or just don't want to deal with or have them try to change my mind.

I hope you find some answers.

Jamesus,

I don't know about anyone else, but when I have to confront or even just talk to my H about something unpleasant, my best bet is to do it by email.

I've found that for myself, I easily cry when I am hurt and frustrated, and my H is prone to get me off track, or the points I want to make go astray, or that later I find that he says 'you never told me that', or 'that's not what you said'.

It's easier for me to write out my feelings. It doesn't take the place of a face-to-face, but it makes sure (to me) that I get to say everything I need to say.

Hi Jamesus-

I prefer to have difficult conversations with my husband by email.

Like the previous posters, I tend to get too emotional when we're face-to-face.

Also, my husband has a bad temper. He's working on controlling it, but I feel "safer" using email if I know he'll get angry about the topic. This may be something to ask yourself- do you make it safe for her to talk to you?

Just my thoughts.
Hang in there-
~Saturn

I'm trying to work on that angle actually.. to make her feel safe talking to me.

I did kind of screw that up one time over the phone... but that was once in the last 3 months and afterwards we continued a conversation for about 20 minutes which was very calm, civil.. and while we did not agree.. I remained calm, cool, caring etc.. and she seemed to respond to that. It was about a very sensitive subject.. and while nothing ended up getting resolved and neither of us 'moved' our positions.. I think some of the things that were said on both sides got through.. Even if it has not yet resulted in action.

I think the toughest part of this situation all the way around is DSD.. WW maintains that DSD is mad at me and doesn't want anything to do with me.. but when pressed she starts talking about her own comfort level and parts of the conversation trend to 'I'm her mother.. of course she's going to take my side'.. and mentions of betrayal..

I think she'd actually feel 'betrayed' if DSD still wanted to have a relationship with me.. so it's still about her feelings rather than what is best for DSD.. who has already lost her biological father.. and -chose- to give her heart and her love to me as her 'dad'.. I hurt for her because she's suffering the loss of yet another 'father' figure in her life.. and there's little I can do about it other than continue to be here and -want- to be a part of her life.

It's part of the disgusting things that WW is doing.. and I don't think she really knows any better.. she has nothing to do with the stepmothers in her past (dad was married and divorced 4 times).. and probably feels like there's nothing wrong with destroying this emotinal bond between DSD and I.. it's a tough sitch.. but we can stick to my main thread for discussions on that.

Really what I want to stick to here is the 'avoidance' thing that you guys are touching on..

Why would you 'avoid' those situations if you honestly felt you were in the right.. even if others disagreed?

I've never been violent with my wife or children.. actually WW and I have barely argued or disagreed on things during our marriage.

Good question James,

My WxGF wanted to met in person and e-mailed me twice last week. I called on saturday and left a voicemail and have not heard anything.

It makes me wonder is this about being scared or not being heard or feeling that phone is an unsafe medium to discuss things? Or perhaps that the A has restarted?

Or did I break protocol by not staying in e-mail until she called me? Problem is how do you arrange a time to meet through e-mail when you lvie a long distance and have hectic schedules?

Jamesus, I'm not really sure what you mean about the avoidance thing that we are touching on.

I avoid nothing. What you have to remember, just as different people have different ENs, some have preferred ways of communicating.

Sushi,

I'm not saying you're avoiding anything..

My WW.. and from what I've read, several WS's seem to be the ones avoiding contact with their BS.

In my case (which is the only one I'm -truly- familiar with all the details of).. WW has never before had problems communicating in person with me, her dad, sister, or DSD's grandparents..

She's -starting- (since I've started going into 'withdrawn' mode.. and just plan Aing when she initiates) to respond to me again, via email or phone.. just won't engage conversation at all in person.

She's fighting with her dad and sister via email after having visited them in person twice within a week and has.. after the email exchange cut them off completely.

She doesn't return DSD's grandparents phone calls even..



I suppose as a result of the way Schoolbus typically looks into the deeper meanings and motivations that can be gleaned from actions.. I was asking if there were any insights on how much conflict that actually displays within someone that they can't bring themselves to interact 'in person' with people that meant so much to them in the past.. but yet she -claims-, and her actions state mean nothing to her now.

I don't think you should get your hopes up looking for some deeper meaning.

Could be she's just sick of fighting with everyone and wants to say her piece without getting emotions involved.

Sometimes I email my H or call his work number to leave a message, even if I know he has his cell phone by his side. Sometimes I just don't want to talk to him (usually when there's some drama going on).

Sushi,

I appreciate your concern.

I don't believe that I'm really trying to get my hopes up about it. I've actually felt this way the entire time.. that her inability to deal head on with these issues, face to face.. and actually have the confrontation that could close all of this out.. well, it spoke volumes to me about her state of mind... that it pointed to the fact that she knows, at least on some level that this is wrong.

Schoolbus has quite a well earned and favorable reputation here of being able to cut through a lot of the crap and get to (while speculative.. it's educated) some of the underlying things here that allow us to better understand and come to grips with wayward behavior.

I'd like to address your last point though, as it relates to my sitch... if she didn't -want- to talk to me, she could easily email me with a lot of the stuff she chooses to talk to me on the phone about.. I don't think it's that she doesn't want to talk to me.. it's just that she can't really do it face to face.. and it's -that- disparity I was looking to touch on with this post.

I'm glad you're chiming in though.. because sometimes a duck is just a duck.. and I can deal with that.. just seems inconsistent with a lot of WS behavior here.

James,

The oddities of wayward communication ...

Perhaps we need a book to translate the mess. I think most waywards do not want to communicate save for e-mail because they can be distant in e-mail and not worry about interpreting or listening. E-mail is such a passive form of communication.

I think they're afraid of talking or face to face but of the implication that it will force them to address issues.

The reality is not something they want to face hence the reason for the A in the first palce, an inability to face responsability and deal with the difficulties of life.

I get many of the same feelings Infodude..

I'm not sure.. perhaps my wife feels that if she were confronted with me face to face it'd be harder to lie..

I don't know.. that's why I ask.