Where are ya, RIM...I need you to hang tough here with me. Let's figure this stuff out...

Hi Lala--

Sorry I've been such a b**ch today. I just can't handle it anymore...

The reason I went MIA for awhile is that I went home... I went home and I couldn't handle it collapsed crying on the bed. H ignored me. As usual. And this is not something that is just exclusive to this... he's always done this to me. It hurts, a lot.

I told him I wanted to talk to him, I calmed myself down, pulled myself together. And you know what? All he could do was yell at me... talk to me with all this contempt in his voice. I said I wanted to talk like adults, he said to me "he tried that before, and I didn't want to talk before, so he's not doing that anymore". Its like he's just being the worst possible person he can... just to hurt me. And its so confusing. I just don't get it... why for so long all he wanted was to fix our marriage... and now that he has that opportunity he could care less about it. I moved home in July... I've been here awhile. Things have been rocky, and I stayed with a friend for awhile after that, but I've been here for awhile. He REALLY started this behavior in September.
He kept saying over and over he didn't want to talk-- he never does. He said over and over again that he's realized "this is never going to end". I said to him, well the way things are now, no it will never end. It is going to take BOTH of us working together in order to make this "end".

I tried to explain to him about emotional needs (again, we took the questionaire, but I'm sure he doesn't remember ANY of it).


Its like once he gets angry (for WHATEVER reason... and even before this), that is the ONLY thing in the world that matters... and it doesn't matter how anyone else feels or what they are thinking-- he is angry. And he is VERY selfish when he's angry.

So-- he stormed out of the house. I told him that it hurts me VERY VERY much when he does that. But he did it anyways. He said he didn't care if it hurt me, because I didn't care when I hurt him.

I just can't take the excuses... the excuses that just make no sense and REALLY sound like a WS talking-- the "you did this to me, so that is why I am hurting you now" excuses. The justifications. They make no sense. And I feel like I have all this hurt from the past too... and now the hurt from now to deal with. Everything is my fault, his REFUSAL to accept blame.

I just don't know how to get through to him. He's so very selfish. He'll admit it. He says he's being selfish, but that he doesn't care. But in the same breath tell me that he loves me and doesn't want to hurt me!?!??! I just don't understand at all.

And, sadly enough, slowly, even though I don't want to, I'm losing faith in him. I'm starting to think that this response from him was inevitable. That once he got what he wanted, (me back), only his own hurt feelings were going to matter, over fixing the marriage and above all else.

You can't fix a marriage with one person. My plan was to plan A until March-ish. Then go plan B. Things were going well enough recently that I thought I could deal with that. But today just dealt me such a blow...

He won't even LET me help him. I ask him how I can help, what I can do, etc etc. He says nothing. He wants to do this alone (clearly, its not working, but he's still beating his head against it..).

Part of me is starting to think he just WANTS to push me away... so that he can just blame it all on me in his own head and move on with his life... because if he gives up now, he won't know what it "could have been" where as if I give up, its just my fault.

Its just so lonely, and I just don't understand.... I don't understand why he doens't want to feel better... why he constantly is so destructive. We aren't talking typical BS hurt here, we are talking vindictive, resentful selfish behavior and talk. I'M NOT KIDDING YOU, read any thread here about ****** that a WS pulls and says... and you can fill in my hubby's name there... HE IS ACTING EXACTLY LIKE A WS-- still. And justifies and justifies and justifies and makes excuse after excuse. This isn't recovery. This is just slow torture and death. And punishment. Because our marriage IS dying... IT IS. I've accepted this. In fact, I EXPECT it to die. I really do. How's that for plan A thinking? But I'm still trying. And yes, I got overly emotional tonight. I did. I cried and I bawled to him. But I didn't LB EVEN ONCE. I was proud of myself. And when he yelled at me, I calmly asked him to stop (he screamed at me "no!" (ironic, eh?), and kept talking to him calmly... I didn't raise my voice even once.... I kept trying to explain what he's doing that hurts me, in case (just in case) he didn't know already. I know he does. But I was giving him the benefit of the doubt, thinking maybe if I told him, he'd not hurt me like that anymore. No such luck. He REFUSES.

And some of these are basic things, like not screaming at me, or trying to talk about things. He said we should have a conversation about this on Saturday, but then said he wasn't going to do it anymore because in his eyes "we already had the conversation" and he doesn't want to talk, so any excuse to get him out of it, does in his eyes. Anytime I ask him if we can talk, he says no because he's hungry, tired, stressed, busy... fill in the blanks. We can't talk. And when we do... he just LB up and down and pretty much leaves every opportunity for growth between us on the table... even if I point it out.

At this point we are just on cruise control. Sure, we can have fun together. Sure, we have some good SF. But, the problems are still there, they aren't fixed, and he refuses to deal with them. And quite frankly, it seemed like his mind changed overnight about that-- maybe it didn't and that was just how it seemed to me, because at that point, in September, I was still a tad foggy, even though I was living at home. I was in withdrawl, I'd say. But now, I'm pretty solidly out of even withdraw. I have no desire to talk to OM, and I say that honestly. I really don't.

H just came home, and I went in and greeeted him in the kitchen like nothing happend. Gave him a big hug and a kiss... even though what I really wanted was to throw a brick at his head. I plan A'd. I think I am going to start a count down calendar at work of how many more days of Plan A until plan B starts...

I just can't take this... you don't know how lucky you are to have a H that wants to work with you, that wants to grow with you and make your relationship better-- or at least SEE what the relationship could be. Mine isn't. Mine is almost OUT to destroy it... it seems that is all he's focused on sometimes.

Oh-- and all of this came AFTER I told him I had a rough day at work today. I really feel like he has VERY little concern for my feelings... and I know I shouldn't expect that he does. Its just so hard when I have all this hurt built up from his As and now he's acting like a WS too...

For one thing, I'll be such a stronger person after all of this... no matter what happens.

I just don't know what else to do... I really don't. Talking to him just DOES NOT work. And I just don't get the whole "you did this to me so now I'm entitled to do it back". That is what he SERIOUSLY believes!!! That is SUCH CRAP! Wow, the world would be a horrible, horrible place to live if that were true!! But he plays that line with double standards, it applies to him and how he behaves, but even though he's done a TON of things that I never did to him that were very hurtful, I willing to bet I'm not "allowed" to do those things! (not that I would... but it just shows the double standard).

I'm just tired of keeping score on hurt. Its like he has this mental score and in his head, he's "hurt" me 100 units, and I've hurt him 150 units, therefore, in his head, he's entitled to 50 more units of hurt on me before he has to make any effort in this relationship whatsoever, or before he can even "decide" whether or not it is worth TRYING.

He says its not worth TRYING unless he knows he wants it... I guess this is why I called the stuff he says "fog"-- BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE! Although, it has been renamed the "blizzard" by TMTS.

My patience is wearing. He seems to be OK again now, but I'm not. I'm really not. I'm glad he is, but I am sitting in the living room trying to hide the fact that I'm bawling and that I'm still so hurt, because he'll just get MAD at me for hurting. He gets mad at me for being hurt, so I have to hide it.

I just don't know how much more of this I can take... I try not to get my hopes up, but I really had them up recently... that maybe we had turned a corner.

I KNOW we could do this if he would put in his half of the effort. I KNOW WE COULD. I can do what I need to, and I believe in him. He just refuses....

So hurt... back to tears.. I have such a headache from dealing with this...

RIM

ok, rim.....BREATH.

I'll be back shortly...putting the boys to bed now...

How did dinner go?

Here are some random thoughts based on some of your recent posts.

RIM, have you ever seen Cool Hand Luke?

At some point in the movie, the abusive Captain (warden? anyway - boss over the prison) told prisoner Luke, "you got to get your mind right, boy."

The biggest part of your current battle is your own mind. One of the things that will continue to set you up for big tumbles, is to have expectations of what he should do and how he should do it. Of course, this is no way to live for all of your life, but it is a mindset that might can help you get through this for a period of time. Another thing to address is the "it's not fair" aspect of it all.

You do not want to start playing "List those offenses!" with your husband, trying desperately to be the one who was the most offended for the longest period of time.

I understand that part of what makes this harder in some ways, is that your marriage has been disconnected and detached for some time, so you have a internal bank that has been screaming to be filled by your husband for a long time.

One of the things to recognize is that people respond to pain, unhappiness, discomfort, FITB - in very different ways. Some people really can forgive much more easily than others. Those people who can forgive more easily, can't understand when their spouse doesn't. Easier forgivers think the harderto forgivers are doing it on purpose. Are choosing to do this. And there is some truth in that, but.

Some people are just not as emotionally equipped to handle it. It's harder for them. So, in some ways, internally *they may be trying harder than the easy-to-forgiver is*.

It's just that their results aren't as successful - (Obvious? Consistant?)

You guys spent a lot of time apart - Dr. Harley discourages even ONE night apart. He has seen what time apart can do to a marriage. Most likely, neither of you had much love-reserves in the first place.

You were wondering why he would act like this now after you have recommited to the marriage. It is not an uncommon response. And if he starts recommitting into the marriage, you are going to have to deal with your own anger against him as well. It's already there, peeking out every once in a while. There is sometimes an emotional backlash when you feel that the emergency has lightened up a bit. BS who Plan A and woo their WS back into the marriage, may find themselves with massive amounts of resentment and anger. Resentment and anger that went largely unexpressed during the Plan A period. Resentment and anger that suddenly bubbles up (and sometimes explodes) - temporarily squelching any love you have for your spouse - and you look at them and wonder "what the he!! was I fighting for him/her so hard for?"

I would hazard a guess that that may be some of what is regularly coursing through your hubby's emotional wires right now.

As to the trip away with friends, his negative reaction might not just be payback at you. Could be that he doesn't want to have to have to hold himself in check in front of others for several days. Could be that there is an anger at any activity approaching *normal* that might seem like things at home are normal and working when he is feeling anything but.

I would suggest that you do what you can to drop the defensiveness. If he tells you that he's doing this to you because you did it to him - rather than get your back all up about it try to defuse it. Respond with gentleness - that you are sorry that your past actions (to which he is referring, ie saying no to activities with him in the past) were insensitive and caused him pain (whatever your own words to express this would be.)

Not groveling. Not whimpering. Not all down and woe-is-me.

Gentleness. Kindness. Softness of heart.

Is there anyway you could counsel with the Harleys via phone? Did you know that resource is available? Perhaps instead of going into it for marriage counseling (if your husband is opposed to doing so) perhaps it could be more along the lines of trying to find out where do we go from here.

What do you think?

Hi Graplin! Nice post...this sitch is a tough one.

BTW-I tried to find your story in here just b/c I like to draw from the experiences of everyone and I couldn't find it. I'm new, so I'm probably just doing it wrong... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> What happened in your sitch? How far into R are you and are you the WS or BS? Sorry for all the questions, just curious...

Hi everyone...

First things first... dinner was just fine. Its like things just went back to normal. And I let it. I even got a little playful after dinner and was insinuating SF for later tonight. He's now working on his computer... doing stuff for work. He's still being a little distant, but the situation has been diffused.

And, graplin, thanks for the helpful post. You are right, I don't want to play "list the offenses" with my H. And we've done enough of that in the past. And he's VERY quick to try to start that game. I've recently done VERY well at not joining in. I just say that I'm sorry, like you suggested.

I really don't think that the reason he doesn't want to go on the trip has anything to do with not being around other people. We've been fine with that recently, and if anything, he WANTS to be around other people and not just with me as much as possible. That is part of why I wanted to do this. He's a "life of the party" kinda guy and likes to be the center of attention... so being with a group of people is kinda natural for him...

I think in a way, right now, he's kinda like the BS after the plan A, like you mentioned. He has all this built up resentment towards me... its just frustrating that there really is nothing I can do about it.... I have to wait for HIM to decide HE wants to change himself. The problem is that he has no incentive for that right now...

I have considered MC with the Harley's. We were going to a MC, but he was pretty useless... well but my hubby would also sit there and LITERALLY shoot down EVERY suggestion the MC had because he REFUSED to put in ANY (not even the smallest things) effort-- he kept saying over and over he wasn't going to do anything until he decided if he wanted the marriage or not. But at the same time would threaten me that if I left the house "it was over" with no chance of us ever reconciling. The MC was pretty useless, and was actually recommending we separate because of my hubby's complete refusal to do anything. So-- we stopped going to him, and thankfully, I found someone who is now a dear internet friend, who has guided me greatly. I didn't end up moving out, she steered me to plan A, and to this board. And truthfully, if it wasn't for her, I wouldn't be here on this board or in my house right now. I was fed up and ready to leave. I owe her a lot... (but I digress).

I suppose I could give the Harley's a stab. Can't hurt. Although, H is pretty against counseling of ANY kind right now... mainly because he knows that I've ponied up and made the changes I need to, so he resists ANYTHING that might push him closer to having to face himself, and change himself. But then again, I don't want to waste $200 for him to pull the same stunt he did with the other MC... the whole "I refuse to do ANYTHING at all for my wife or for this marriage, and I am only looking out for myself, that's it and I don't care who I hurt in doing it" (that is his attitude, and word for word what he told the counselor... not much you can do to "fix" or help a couple when one person is saying that!

I slipped for a day. I guess that is part of plan A... its so stressful and hurtful and requires so much bottling up of your own feelings to put someone else's first... that sometimes you just BREAK. I need to learn to keep my own emotions in check, my own hurt in check, and not play the groveling woe-is-me.

Tomorrow will be better. It has to be. I will MAKE it be.

My head is POUNDING... but I'm still plan Aing away. I slipped a little, this wasn't my most perfect plan A day. But most of these things I've kept to this board instead of lashing out at him. That is the beauty of this. When I want to throw a brick at him, I come here instead...

RIM

Hi everyone...

First things first... dinner was just fine. Its like things just went back to normal. And I let it. I even got a little playful after dinner and was insinuating SF for later tonight. He's now working on his computer... doing stuff for work. He's still being a little distant, but the situation has been diffused.

And, graplin, thanks for the helpful post. You are right, I don't want to play "list the offenses" with my H. And we've done enough of that in the past. And he's VERY quick to try to start that game. I've recently done VERY well at not joining in. I just say that I'm sorry, like you suggested.

I really don't think that the reason he doesn't want to go on the trip has anything to do with not being around other people. We've been fine with that recently, and if anything, he WANTS to be around other people and not just with me as much as possible. That is part of why I wanted to do this. He's a "life of the party" kinda guy and likes to be the center of attention... so being with a group of people is kinda natural for him...

I think in a way, right now, he's kinda like the BS after the plan A, like you mentioned. He has all this built up resentment towards me... its just frustrating that there really is nothing I can do about it.... I have to wait for HIM to decide HE wants to change himself. The problem is that he has no incentive for that right now...

I have considered MC with the Harley's. We were going to a MC, but he was pretty useless... well but my hubby would also sit there and LITERALLY shoot down EVERY suggestion the MC had because he REFUSED to put in ANY (not even the smallest things) effort-- he kept saying over and over he wasn't going to do anything until he decided if he wanted the marriage or not. But at the same time would threaten me that if I left the house "it was over" with no chance of us ever reconciling. The MC was pretty useless, and was actually recommending we separate because of my hubby's complete refusal to do anything. So-- we stopped going to him, and thankfully, I found someone who is now a dear internet friend, who has guided me greatly. I didn't end up moving out, she steered me to plan A, and to this board. And truthfully, if it wasn't for her, I wouldn't be here on this board or in my house right now. I was fed up and ready to leave. I owe her a lot... (but I digress).

I suppose I could give the Harley's a stab. Can't hurt. Although, H is pretty against counseling of ANY kind right now... mainly because he knows that I've ponied up and made the changes I need to, so he resists ANYTHING that might push him closer to having to face himself, and change himself. But then again, I don't want to waste $200 for him to pull the same stunt he did with the other MC... the whole "I refuse to do ANYTHING at all for my wife or for this marriage, and I am only looking out for myself, that's it and I don't care who I hurt in doing it" (that is his attitude, and word for word what he told the counselor... not much you can do to "fix" or help a couple when one person is saying that!

I slipped for a day. I guess that is part of plan A... its so stressful and hurtful and requires so much bottling up of your own feelings to put someone else's first... that sometimes you just BREAK. I need to learn to keep my own emotions in check, my own hurt in check, and not play the groveling woe-is-me.

Tomorrow will be better. It has to be. I will MAKE it be.

My head is POUNDING... but I'm still plan Aing away. I slipped a little, this wasn't my most perfect plan A day. But most of these things I've kept to this board instead of lashing out at him. That is the beauty of this. When I want to throw a brick at him, I come here instead...

RIM

Res, my journey to MB didn't involve infidelity. Here is a LINK to a thread where I posted some personal info. Scroll down further and I gave more info in response to Larry's questions and I think there may be a smidge more on the following page.

Kinda boring actually, no guys in tunics and tights blowing announcement trumpets, no red carpet and showers of rose petals, no crowns and coronets, no grand processions...

I might should have sprung for a camel, elephant, and a clown for the parade - but didn't want to be too ostentatious. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ahhh, thanks Graplin! I had assumed you were a woman, but wasn't sure! What an interesting debate, though!

Had to do a drive by post.



Graplin wrote a good post that I need to make a comment.

First we all know SF for most men is important but dont discount other EN. For me - I need calm enviroment and domestic support in the house. Work is competitive and combative all day. At work 630am (wake up at 430am) and home by 7pm for 5days. I just need to have some calmness with no dramatics at the end of day. JL used to use the word grace in his postings and he is so accurate.

A woman who has grace and is able to create a safe and calm home environment is worth everything.

I even know that one of my own vulnerabilities is if a woman "gently" touches my arm, shoulder or hair on my head and is kind and soft spoken will make me melt to the pavement. With much regret, my spouse is not much in the affection department so I know that I need to be careful.

I have not read the entire thread - good luck and hope your H realizes that you are trying to get it back together.

Thanks Graplin for that post - very good.

((((RIM))))

Look they can't all be good ones, we've all had days like this, I have one weekly. (I've filled my quota for this week)That being said, think of it like poker, when you’re at the table have your poker face, even when you go all in a loose, you can only break down after you've left the casino. This is where you go once you leave, and then let it all out. You've read my stuff, can you imagine if I said even a couple of things that I spew here. I hold it in and let out my thoughts and feelings here.

What you describe tonight is pretty wild. Is it the length of his fuse, is it the A, or is something else going on? He won't see an IC so that's a tuff one. This doesn't sound like a "blizzard" it's more like a tornado, there and gone real fast but leaves much destruction.

Take care.

Good Morning RIM,

Get ready I've got a tough one for you this morning...

Has he even been physically abusive towards you? Because what you describe from the last couple of days certainly sound emotionally abusive.

Second one is... Could this all be a reaction to your reactions? Maybe he can feel or see that you expect something positive out of him all the time so he reacts negatively.

Just things to think about. I hope your night went better, and you have a better day today.

Good morning!!!

First off, I woke up with a better perspective, saddled up, and back on the plan A horse... ready to ride! Tonight is date night. I got all gussied up, and I must say, damn I look good! And, knowing that I look good is giving me that tiny bit of strength I need right now..

I'm ready for date night... we are going to get dinner, and then I'm STILL not sure what I want to do. I really want to find something where we can have fun, but at the same time, open that door for communication (so, movies are out, plus there's no really good ones out anyways...). I liked the pool hall suggestion, but all the pool halls in my town are all skeezy... no nicer ones... I was thinking ice skating... there's a relaly nice outdoor rink in the middle of downtown they put up every year, but I forgot hubby is getting a toe nail torn off today (its all infected and they can't save it... its falling off itself anyways...) so that probably isn't a good idea. Oh, and I'm gonna get him a "get well soon!" balloon and card on the way home, even though it is just a toe nail <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Last night went fine, he worked until we went to bed. We went to bed, had a little SF, and then had a little more this morning. He seems fine thus far this morning. Lala, you are right... it is like a TORNADO. Does a lot of damage, and then is just GONE. And he doesn't apologize, doesn't recognize the damage he's done, how much he's hurt me. That hurts the most... we all make mistakes, but he just brushes them under the rug like they aren't a big deal, but they are to me... But, I can't expect that for now. That is not part of Plan A.

OK-- so the more difficult questions... (you knew I was avoiding these, didn't you TMTS!). So, we have gotten into a physical battle. This was right before I came here and found MB. It happened after he had been drinking. It left me with a few bruises. But, I've also tried to touch him gently during arguments and things like that, and he's shoved my arm away forcefully. I don't know. That was what started the physical battle... I grabbed his arm as he was storming out on me (what he usually does... and he was leaving me downtown by myself, where I don't really know my way around, not like he was leaving me home...)-- and he shoved me so hard I fell on the ground. I got up and shoved him back (brilliant, I know...) and it all went downhill from there... I ended up with a few bruises on my legs and arms... and he at one point twisted my arm so hard my elbow hurt for a few days....

It may be reactions to my expectations of him, I don't know. I am trying REALLY REALLY hard to have NO EXPECTATIONS.

I think maybe when he gets in these self destructive modes, maybe I just need to let him go. I can't keep rescuing him from his self destructive behavior. Maybe he'll realize what he's doing faster. But do you know how hard it is to just pretend nothing happened after those "tornados"?? VERY. VERY VERY. A hug and an "I'm sorry I hurt you". That is all I need/want... that's it. An ACKNOWLEDGMENT that he knows he hurt me, and that he's sorry. Instead all I get is a speech about how I deserve it. Nice.

I guess I don't know if I should continue to just act normal after he comes back from these tizzies. I mean, plan A says I should. For now I'm going to. I REALLY need to stop "rescuing" him though from those... I need to stop the begging and the pleading and the trying extra hard to calm him down. It just ENCOURAGES the behavior, I think. So what, if he wants to act like an idiot and ruin our evening, oh well. Oh well. That is HIS FAULT, NOT MINE. He needs to learn to control his emotions... and express ones OTHER than anger. He's very adept at expressing anger, but not so much on the other emotions. Typical guy, I suppose. But the funny thing is, he is a self-proclaimed "emotional person". He says he is "overly emotional" and a "more emotional person than me". I really don't get that. Maybe he had some emotions while I was in my A, because like TMTS, he was afraid he was going to lose me, but those are long, long gone... and they certainly weren't there before the A!

So-- I hope your date night goes well, TMTS. I'll check in Saturday at some point, make sure you post and let us know how it went. I'll let you know how mine goes!

Maybe I need to stop rescuing him and just let him hit rock bottom himself... but I'm afraid he'll just run away from his problem, rather than fixing it... I just hope he wakes up before my love bank is TOTALLY depleted. I really don't want to have to Plan B... and Plan B is going to be really difficult in our situation. I can't afford our house alone on my salary... that means I would have to leave, and he's already threatened me (over and over) that if I leave the house again, it is over. So, I'm sort of stuck there. I'm not close to plan B yet, but it is something that has been tumbling around in my head. My plan is to plan A until March, and if he hasn't committed by then, he's going to get a whopper of Plan B...

RIM

I got the impression from the link that graplin WAS a woman?? (read the very last one on the page??)....

Maybe I'm just an idiot... graplin??

RIM

I can relate to this. Very emotional, but no comfort in expressing it other than AO. For me I would just bottle things up...work, W, kids...than something would get me going. And you know the tough part is that it takes a while to get out of that pattern, and he needs to realize that it's there before anything good can happen.



I sucked at it too, and still get down because of it. It was the hardest part for me and still is. You want so much to see a light bulb go on in their head where they tell you exactly what you so desperately want to hear. What helped me (On top of the support I got here) is the realization that she could sense this and see the pain in my face.



Could this be your biggest hurdle? Are you afraid of him? Can you see it happening again? I understand you love him, but if he puts you in a hospital or worse...
The physical thing is a tough one, you really want to be honest with yourself on this one.

Good luck to you too. I'll probably be on late night with an update... the later it goes the better. LOL

OK- NOW we are getting somwhere. This sitch is volatile and is only going to get worse b4 it gets better. Maybe you need to be apart. He needs to get his friggin anger in CHECK. You are being borderline ABUSED at this point, which is what I was hearing a little of yesterday, and now you've confirmed it. This is not "typical guy" behavior. PERIOD. Only a weak/twisted man would push a woman down and then try to leave you downtown on your own. He sounds like a complete jerk who is completely self-absorbed and who has little regard for anyone else when he is angry. Doesn't sound like it takes him much to get there, either! Which is typical abuser behavior.

I would not recommend you stay with this person now, unless he goes into intensive counselling to deal with his anger issues. And I do suggest you leave b4 you end up getting hurt. He can do the work, THEN you can fix your M problems IF you think you can and he has changed his behavior enough. Be honest with yourself here...what part of being with him makes you happy? Walking on eggshells till he decides to blow up again?

I agree with the "little regard for anyone else when he's angry". That is a HUGE issue of mine. Just because you are angry... even if it is justfied anger... that doesn't give a right to go and do whatever you feel like doing!!! I guess that is my main issue. He finds excuses, excuses it in his own head, excuses it verbally to me though.

And, at this point, I'm not really afraid of it happening again. It scared the living ****** out of both of us... and I told him the next day that if he EVER touched me EVER again, I would call the police, have him arrested, and there would be no more chances. But I think we were BOTH embarrassed by our behavior that night. Things had just gone so far downhill at that point, and that was a point when he was drinking a lot too. And I think that incident in particular sort of curbed the drinking for a bit for him. That, and his grandfather was a drunk who beat and cheated on his (very sweet!) grandmother... and after that incident, I mentioned to his mother about his constant drinking and mood swings (nothing about that incident in particular)... and she called him and said that she didn't want him to end up like her grandfather and to be careful because alcoholism runs in their family (he's got an uncle who's a pretty big drunk too). So... I think that's helped.

Maybe I am being nieve, but I think that was an isolated incident. And I promise you... if it so much as happens again, I will make good on my promise to him. I guess I excuse it a little because this was before my plan A days, and I was really egging him on that night... not that that excuses what he did, it doesn't. But, I certainly made some big mistakes that night too. I was egging him on concerning his own affairs....

So, I'm sticking with the plan as is. He has major changes to make IN HIMSELF. And I need to stop enabling him. I've determined that's what I've been... for a very long time now... far before this situation, but my guilt over this situation has turned me into a BIGGER enabler. He has to deal with this on his own. And if he doesn't , well shame on him, he'll lose me, and I'm sure this will resurface in future relationships if he doesn't deal with it now.

I guess maybe this has shown me my role as an enabler...

I'm sticking with plan A... for now. He did show while I was in my fog that he IS capable of recognizing... and fixing... some of these problems. Its just now he's gone back to these old patterns again. And I've gone back to my enabling ways. Not good. He was in counseling for anger management for awhile while I was in my A... he did a lot of self evaluation... and really made some good changes in himself. And... I believed that he could keep them up. If I hadn't, I probably wouldn't have came home and would have divorced him. But now they are all back (but he says over and over he's not that same person he was before, except... he is).

So this is it... he can wake up and smell the roses in the next month or two... or I'm going plan B... with a long list of personal changes he needs to make in order to have me back. And I've learned a lot about myself, and have made myself better. His turn. And my turn to stop enabling.

Stop enabling.. that is my goal. He wants to have a melt down, have at it. I'm no longer participating or "comforting" him. If he wants to talk like adults, fine-- great!-- I'm there. But the melt downs are all his to deal with. Dealing with melt downs that are destructive is my "line" in my plan A. I'm just not doing it anymore.

Now, my question is... so after his melt down... I can GUARANTEE you he isn't going to apologize or anything, or acknowledge how hurtful he is... so, do I just play along with his game of "nothing ever happened" (that is his MO... freak out, and then later on act like nothing happened, but never apologize or anything...). So, for now, I think in my plan A, I will accept his "acting like nothing happened"... for now. That is something that needs to change long term. Everyone makes mistakes, and he needs to be able to recognize his, and APOLOGIZE for them, genuinely. But no more enabling. Meltdown all you want hubby, I'm sorry, I can't be there for you anymore during those. I just can't. That is my line in the sand.

RIM

What's AO, TMTS? Sorry, I try to keep up with the shorthand, but that's one I don't know yet?

RIM

And... rwinger... I didn't want to ignore your post either (thanks!).

You are right about the whole "creating a calm environment". He's made the comment to me a few times that he doesn't WANT to come home because it is just more stress there. So, I've tried EXTRA hard recently to not make it that way. And he's been "hiding" less at work and other places.

Along those lines, he's an auditor, so this is his busiest time of year, working long hours. And on top of that, this year he has a really big PAIN IN THE [censored] client he's working on... so he's super stressed with that. And he's kinda leading things up there this year too, which makes it more stressful because he's the go-to guy there.

So, I've been trying hard to sort of take some of the "home" burden off of him, and let him focus on work, and to try to be supportive recently. And make home a good place.

I think that is important to him also, rwinger, and you hit on an important point. Thanks for the reminder, and I'm going to try to re-focus some effort there!

RIM