Hey Top Rope!

Thanks for letting us play on your thread!

Semper Fi,

RIF

OK,
then lets start up a collection.

*********
No prob RIF .....
BUT .....aren't you suppossed to be asleep?

Lead Crybaby reporting for duty. <salutes>

I agree TopRope.

I feel like I might have to start kepeing a back-up copy of everything I post because threads keep getting deleted or locked.

Also, it's one of the troll-tactics IMHO to post really bizarre, hateful, and frustrating things... until they get finally get a reaction they can pretend is 'abuse', THEN they delete all the evidence of what the posters were reacting to!

I don't like all the deleting and locking going on myself.
It comes across as censorship and/or hiding the evidence IMHO.

Oh, and I'm the 2nd to the oldest of 8 kids. 90% of the tattling that went on in our family was my baby brother running to mommy (still a momma's boy and in his 40's), another 9% was my youngest sister, and the rest of us 6 kids did the remaining 1%. I could probably count on one hand the number of times I tattled to my parents. One was when I tattled that the babysitter colored a page in my coloring book... hey I was very young and I really though she was gonna get it! LOL My mom just laughed at me right in front of the babysitter! (grrrr) Another time was when I told my mom she might want to go check out the adjustment one of my sisters was attempting to do on the sewing machine... with a hammer! LOL And THAT time I got teased by that sister for being such a snitch!

I have never, ever, here or anywhere else online, e-mailed a mod to complain about another poster. Positng in a message here that I thought Back should be banned was a first for me and based on the discovery that she is here to troll, and to distort MB principles to lure a married man away from his wife, and that she has posted some really hateful things to people. I made an exception for her...

And I wouldn't have even done that if her coddlers would have just stayed out of it and threads weren't being deleted and locked.

Hey,
I hear ya Mer-Mort.
Ain't it always them youngins that start all the trouble, then run and tattle when ya try to get'em back? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

As to the frustration:
To be fair,
I wasn't singling out any particular poster ........my gripe is {and has been} with what seems to be a new found Culture of running to tell, which has for whatever reason evolved here on the MBer forum.

{As per your story, maybe all the tattlers here are the younger children in their households & that's just how they operate in Life, who knows <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />??) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Look,
Of course there will always be instances where it is both proper and necessary to inform the mods of activity they may not have been aware of.
That's a given.

However,
that should be held out for the LEGITIMATE cases ..........{which come up only Every so often}.

Unfortunately,
the threshold has been reduced to so low a level ......that almost anything is now fair game to send off an email to the mods about.

The broad spectrum should NOT include interpersonal squabbles {which far too often carry on from thread to thread} Such as:
someone disagrees with a particular posting style OR they've got their feelings hurt.

Sorry,
but those are not reasons for which the MODS should need to intervene.

Since much of the UnderLying issue seems to be about Control:
Perhaps Take the advice given about marriages and apply it to posting ........control what you can, which is YourSelf.
Otherwise,
All your gonna experience is further frustration by continuing to make attempts to Control others
[on a message board for goodness sake].
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

{And it happens again in shinethrough's thread} --- LOCKED!!

Well this is what I was typing up to post there ----and I ain't gonna just delete it ----so here it is----even if NoBody ends up reading it or cares,
Not like I haven't talked to just myself in the past:

***********************************

Good grief,
can you people please stop with posts that will end up edited.

IT really makes continuity in a thread just about impossible.

I mean if your going to take the time and effort to type and post,
wouldn't ya really prefer if someone actually gets to read it???

This is EXACTLY what it's all about TR

Don't take crap from anybody.

Billy Joel

MEDC -- Nice quote, however...are you aware you are quoting the words of a man that is rumored to have cheated on every woman he's ever been involved with?

I don't go with rumors from the media. I know he has had infidelity but I saw an interview where he expressed deep regret for that.

Catlover beenthere/donethat regarding both John Stuart Mill AND Billy Joel

Sweet

*whine whine*

Holy Cow top,
I just read your thread and lo and behold, you're right.

I had no idea that the thread I started 4 days ago actually got locked down. Sheesh...

My appeal was to unlock a thread, not get my very own appleal shut down.

What are we coming to here????

Are the usual supects going to get us all locked down here, for something as innnocuous as preserving the good advise from one particular thread, only to have it locked down because of the bickering?

This, to me, is the tail wagging the dog.

It might be better to lock out certain posters who have nothing to add but untruths and slandering for the sake of being heard.

This forum, is far bigger than us as individuals, and one must ask, what's next. The whole forum gets shut down?

Thanks for the heads up Top, I didn't know my thread got shut down.

All Blessings,
Jerry

C'mon Melody or somebody. I double dog dare you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

No sweat there Shine Through.

Hey would I lie to you??

Although sorry it happened to you too.
(aside --- Ever try to read threads where every 2nd or 3rd post is completely edited) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Sheesh, just give me the unrated version <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />.....I'm over 18 .....ya know.

Now as to the topic:

Far too many of these threads concerning our Civil War here on MBers seems to end up referring to trolls and such.
Now I will agree that Some of the more contentious threads are due to trolls ........however, not near all are.

We've had just as many running feuds and locked threads on legitimate issues and with truly needy posters.

It seems to come down to posting styles .....and the clash over should ALL styles be represented.

Now IMO,
Just like there are the carrot and stick approachs to MBing plans ....... there are also the [color:"red"]carrot [/color] and [color:"blue"]stick [/color] posters.

Indeed Over here
we have the more direct, straight on, tell it like it is ...& at times more abbrasive [color:"blue"] stick [/color] posters.
On the other side are the more touchy feelie, supportive, be your cheerleader ..& and at times coddling/enabling [color:"red"]carrot [/color] faction.

(And no, no one TOTALLY falls into one camp or the other ........this is not an Always/never situation ......however, many do have very very strong leanings to one approach or the other).

With that said,
Ideally they each have their place and use in the forum.

In addition,
both ARE needed and Neither is as effective without the other.

Unfortunately,
each type can be just as sensitive and combative when dealing with the other type.
Especially once a history has developed.

Also Keep in mind,
that Both parties have co-existed for years on the board and done better than a fair job at helping needy people.

So whatever your personal style .....perhaps try to accept that each type needs each other for a proper balance.

They are not you .....and you are not they .........Do your part and stop having such an issue with how someone else addresses another adult.

On the other hand,
if the actual advice is harmful ........then feel free to take that up as each incident warrants.
[I know, that opens another whole kettle of worms, with the begging the question about what " [color:"purple"] is [/color] " [color:"brown"] is [/color] crapola .....but what can you do??] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

In closing,
Just like some newbies need a pat on the back .....some need a kick in the rear .....hence, we need folks willing to do Whichever approach is necessary.
Maybe Stick around and be the balance against which approach you tend not to embrace.

toprope,

The message in the title of this thread....about "crybabies and complainers" is in direct contrast to the the messages I've seen the moderators post in the years I've been here about how to handle differences. They have always encouraged people to report a post they find offensive, and almost everyone on this forum has used it occasionally. I hope that people will not allow the namecalling to discourage them from using the resources that have been provided by the administrators and been encouraged by the moderators, just because some might label them a crybaby. The truth is that if more of us used the tools here, instead of having petty arguements....the number of locked threads would almost disappear.

Reporting a post (instead of engaging in heated arguments), is far more likely to keep peace on the board than starting a whole thread to make fun of the people who are willing to use it. The locked threads are the failure of all of us posters who decide instead to bicker. Surely, even you must believe hitting that button is a far better alternative than bickering and fighting with people over their styles and perspectives. The ignore button as well as the report button are the two tools provided to keep more peace here. I hope that the people really interested in rebuilding safety and productive discussions....and avoiding locked threads and editting....will make use of the alternatives that have been provided. Obviously, it's hard to do that....or so many of us wouldn't have been editted or contributed to locked threads. There's enough responsibility to go all around for the state of unrest right now. It's no one person or one group. And anybody can choose to be part of the solution, or part of the problem. I think the tools are superior to more discussions about who is ____________ (fill in the blank with a criticism about somebody else).

This is just one of many similar posts from Justuss:

Star,

Thanks for clarifying it for us. JustUss explanation shows the real job of a mod and how much time the mods put in as VOLUNTEERS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

I hate to invoke Godwin's Law, but IMO couching this as merely a difference in styles is the logical equivalent of asserting that Hitler's Nazism was only a difference in governmental styles. (With the acknowledgment that this is the logical assertion taken to an extreme).

I think most people would agree that parents disciplining children is a good thing in the same way that many forum members think 2x4s are a good thing.

It starts getting hairier when we start defining those terms.

Disciplining children is a good thing. But when you start trying to define discipline, the factions begin.

Some think disciplining consists of "time-outs", nothing else.

Some think of discipline as verbal correction, nothing else.

Some think grounding or restriction on a child's fun things is discipline.

Some think a single swat on the butt with a hand is good.

Some think using something (wooden spoon, belt) for that swat on the butt is good.

Some parents were raised getting slapped in the face and some were raised getting whopped about the head - and that's their idea of discipline because that's what they got when they were kids and look how good they turned out.

Some parents use switches and think a few raised welps on the legs with a little blood in them is the way to go.

Some parents think that disciplining their kids means they can do whatever they want to their child - sticking the child's hand over an open flame, starving them, humiliation & mocking, etc.

Would these all really be considered mere "styles of discipline" and therefore sacrosanct since it's just a style?

Would the people over the years who have spoken up in regards to the harsher child discipline really be crybabies and complainers?

2x4s have been discussed and just like the concept of discipline, everyone brings their own idea of what a 2x4 is.
Is it just blunt honesty? Stern words? Strong verbal correction? Chasing? Mocking? Namecalling? Questioning motives?

Like discipline. can 2x4s go too far?



Is it direct, straight on tell it like it is? I don't know that anyone has suggested that we lie, what has been suggested is that perhaps 2x4s, like discipline, taken to the point of face-slapping and head whopping might be a bit too much.

Do you think namecalling comes under the heading of straightforward honesty?

I don't.

And evidently even the namecallers don't.

When asked if namecalling was helpful, the response was "It makes me feel better."

So calling long time posters like Orchid and LA names and accusing them of bad motives probably isn't an attempt to wield 2x4s of honesty and straightforwardness.

Call it what it is, what the namecallers have said. Namecalling that makes the namecaller feel better.

Do you (rhetorical you) want to defend that as some sort of style that is justified? I know that posting this is most likely going to result in a flurry of posts that will not address what I have said, but will instead label me and drag out abject misinterpretations with a few names thrown in. And the flurry will end up getting your thread locked.

Getting your thread locked is not my intention. I have never tried to get a thread locked, nor have I notified the mods in regards to anything.

Why will it get locked? Because if some folks who disagree with me when I say some are going too far with their "discipline" respond in the usual way - the thread will degenerate quickly. I hope to be proven wrong.

You can read those locked threads - although it is hard to follow with all the editing. I, like you, wish the editing didn't occur, because IMO it is clear what participants appear to be operating with little self-control and a lot of disrespect. There is little discussion of *what* you are saying, but a lot of discussion about *why* you are saying it.

And in doing so, the thread quickly degenerates, because you aren't dealing with ideas anymore, you're dealing with personal attacks.

Did you read Just Learning and Bramblerose on *why* they were leaving?

JL wrote, "It used to be a place where even people who were wrong were accepted and treated with respect all the while showing them what the resources were here, how to use them, and gradually turned those people perspectives to something positive.

In short this was a site of help, hope, and support. One line retorts, black and white statements about something that is very very fuzzy, and just plain intolerance seems to have invested this place by what seem for all purposes to be nice people."

Bramble wrote: "This place is no longer a safe, respectful place - and the problem runs far deeper than the cycles I've witnessed over the years. I hate to say it, but over the last few weeks, I've seen some terrible, cruel things done and said...by people I had once respected. And what is worse, I have seen it supported, tolerated and even encouraged by others."

Had they stayed and tried to address the situation that they wrote about, would anyone really think of them as complainers and whiners? Would they be considered enablers and coddlers because they never saw the need to verbally attack others in the guise of posting styles? Do you think they didn't speak straightforward truth to the people they responded to just because there wasn't a trail of controversy behind them?

Or did they see something destructive operating on this forum and tell us?

Again..Graplin..I agree with you !

Well said, graplin. I agree with you.

But...be careful who you put on a pedestal. We're all human and even those veteran posters you mentioned have stooped to name calling and heavy "2x4" wielding. - one of them, at least.

Fox

I so hate to invoke REALITY, but doesn't it just SO SUCK that we cannot control other people here? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I always found this prayer so helpful when I become OBSESSED with the behavior of others:

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Hope this helps! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />