email to these two Spanish girls he works with.
He has found out and texted: im leaving the job, u said u wouldnt write to (company name), no i have to leave. i dont blame u for what u did.
Then i rang him and he said one of the girls that he hasnt seen in 3 weeks (cos they work in differents buildings) showed him my email and asked him what should she do. He answered her: just leave it...
Gosh, i just cant believe my husband has done this to me.
He just called: he said they were only friendships but that it was wrong and wont do it again. He started then using bad language saying: you ****** up the only good job i've ever got, u ****** it up.
I hang up, im the sadest woman in the world and i dont know what im going to do.\
Im not able for my 2 little angels,this is killing me

A,

They all get angry when exposed. It is textbook.

Who

Hi Arancha
I wanted to say that you are getting great advice. Like you I am from another country and married to a person with inappropriate boundaries. I suppose we didn't see what someone from the same culture might have spotted eh!

And I want to say that, whatever happens you must do the following urgently and in secret. Take copies of all documents that refer to your and your husband's assets and his business interests. Take copies of his tax filings for at least the last five years. Take copies of deeds, his bank statements everything. Put these copies in a safe place outside the home - mail them to your mother if necessary. If things get ugly, you will be amazed at how the assets that are from the marriage will just vapourise. Without the documentation you could spend a million Euros on lawyers and never find them if your H is anything like mine.

In Ireland the only assets that belong to your husband are those he owned before the marriage and did not co-mingle, actively manage or spend. This means that the name on the property or bank account is irrelevant, if the assets was acquired during the marriage half of it is yours. But only if you can find it!

This is especially important if you are considering going to Spain.

Then counsel with Jennifer, even if you have to do this alone, we have just started and she is wonderful

Best of luck and your babies will be fine because they have a wonderful mother

Thanks a lot for ur advise lied_to_again. Do u have Jennifer's number, do u know what the code for America is?

A,

You can schedule on line thru this site: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7020_sched.html

I believe someone will contact you to schedule. It has the number if you prefer to call. The US code is 001 I think.

Who

He called again more calm. We talked for a while, he says he IS compensating to me for what he's done by working in Spain, he says he is there so we can all move there in \july. I said if we dont start communicating now, we'll never make it to Spain. He agrees, he says we'll discuss books and articles together. He seems to want to change. I dont tell whole conversation on the phone but he does seem repented and wanting to give it another go. He said he loves me and that when we move to Spain i'll be a happier person and that when im happy he is happy.
He says that he wants to move to Spain because he thinks the sun and heat will be good for his mental health, and he is going to start working less and less and we'll be able to spend more time together and he'll make it up to me...
He admits they were friendships on the net but that i called one gay once and asked him on a date too.
this is a gay i know and that i connect with. im not in touch with him at all, i only knew him cos we went to the pool where he worked but i suppose i did talk about how nice he was, how we connected...My H says this hurted him a lot thinking i was in the pool talking to him.
Once he told me i should have more male friends since my need for conversation/attention is so big...
I couldnt believe he was saying this seriously.
So the day after i rang this gay (he didnt want to meet, he said he didnt want to be between the 2 of us, that he hoped we sorted it out...), anyway, i told my H about this call, and we just laughed...When i called this gay i told him i would like to meet him cos my H had dare me to meet other men,...told him my M was a dissaster.,,..So apparently my H says now this kind of relationship hurted him a lot

sorry i meant to say guy,not gay,sorry 4 my English

Wow, fees for phone consultation are 275 euros for a 40/45 min session. I find that a bit over the top! because we'd need LOTS of sessions. I dont believe u can achieve much in a 40 min session to be honest. It should be at least an hour session..this is my opinion.
They probably charge that because people are willing to pay that but i find it a bit abusive to take advantadge of people in troubled marriages...
anyway none of my businness..

Can anybody guess why does my H want to move to Spain?, could he not have good intentions by doing this?, is he not doing it for me but for his own interest?
He says he is doing it so i'll be happy for being at home and because the sun and heat will also be good for his mental health.
Im taking a risk by waiting to move to Spain?, what is he planning...?, sometimes i think i should just go to a sol. and get rid of all this rubbish of life i have, always enquiring, wondering...

Arancha

Its $195. Thats currently £98 or €132.

See here for details

Thats the hourly charge of an emergency boiler repair man around here, Arancha. I guess perceptions of value vary.

I have not seen anyone who has counselled with the Harleys regret it.

I also don't think the accusation that the Harleys take advantage of people in troubled marriages is accurate.

The very boards you are using now are fully funded by them.
The basic principles on the header pages are basically fully functional summaries of three Harley bestselling books.

I think in one session you would get enough information to have a plan for recovering your marriage Arancha.

"Anyway, just wanted to say that the reason why i still see a tiny bit of hope in my M is cos i think my H was a good man. I know he suffers from depression or something related to that and that he has had a difficult childhood"

I felt the exact same way about my WXH. That's why I stayed married to him for 25 years. But he left me anyway, for OW#7; he divorced me. Unfortunately I found MB's and started applying the Plan A and Plan B concepts too late.

You have been given some very good advice by veteran posters who have participated at this site for years. I certainly understand how scared and upset it makes you feel to consider that what they are telling you may be true. It's perfectly natural to want to just deny what's going on. It's natural and gives some sort of temporary feeling of protection. But the sooner you take some action (like implementing a plan) you will feel somewhat better. And more importantly, you will be better equipped to deal with this in a way that will greatly increase the odds that your marriage can be restored.

Please go back and reread the advice you've been given so far, plus the info posted at this site about Plan A & B, His Needs/Her Needs, etc.

I agree with those that are telling you that at the very least your WH has been having a string of EA's. If he hasn't already had a PA he soon will if this pattern of behavior is not interrupted. Following the plans here at MB's gives you a course of action to provide just such an interruption.

The veterans here are very good at providing the info and support to get you through this.

Orchid, Star*Fish and others are trying to tell you something you of course do not want to hear. It comes as such a sad shock to the BS, most of us posting here understand that all too well. Please go back and read what Orchid and Star*Fish posted to you in this thread. They are not trying to hurt or upset you. They are trying to help you.

thanks Mm. They say that when a M has been a failure it has been Hs and Ws fault. Im just thinking what have I done wrong. I must have done things wrong. I havent fulfilled his needs. i know there was no excuse for the EAs,,..but was it not my fault at all that our M is not working out?

A,

Of course you share the responsibility for the state of your marriage. Marriage is a partnership. The affairs though, are 100% your WH's responsibility.

That is the beauty of MB, it helps give you a plan and mechanism for building and maintaining a happy fulfilling marriage. Which I suspect, even most WS want.

Who

that's what i mean, so it's my fault aswell as his that our M is a dissaster. So that's why i think i'll try and implement Plan A, i know it might not work but i must say i've never tried to fulfill his needs in the right way, now i know i can do it better.
He has to correspond and get involved in this task.
I dont have lots of hope but just a little.
starfish advise was very clear and i didnt like it.
Nobody knows the whole story but me.
I know my H is not a jewel but is the only one i've got and the dad of my kids and i'll give him a last chance.
I do know now everything about the house and all he has, i have access to the computer and all bank statements and ALL i want. he never hided from me when he bought them, he just didnt tell me and i never got involved, so part of it was my fault too.He is a good dad to the kids now and cares for them,not like i would but he is their daddy and my son adores him. He plays an important role in my son's life.
I am strong with him, im not a doormat, but i'll also have to be smarter this time. I do have copies of everything so i dont think i have anything to lose just for trying one last time

Plan A is the opportunity for you to make positive changes to demonstrate to him what your marriage can be like if it is not destroyed by his A's. Work on improving the things you wish you had done differently in your marriage.

However, this alone rarely works in getting a WS to stop the A(s) and to do their part in working on the marriage.
That's why eventually you may have to go to the Plan B.

Oh, and as part of Plan A you should expose his A(s) to others. If you can find out specifically who some of the OW are, and if they have a boyfriend/husband, then you could expose what's going on to them. You could also expose to your families and friends. Exposure can be a very effective step in causing the A(s) to end sooner rather than later.

Please understand that your situation is worse than what we usually see here in that your WH isn't just temporarily behaving in an unacceptable way because of involvement with ONE OW... He has developed a pattern of behavior that is destructive. And no matter what problems you have contributed to the marriage, even if he is just reacting to your faults, he has no valid excuse for what he is doing to you and your marriage. His problems are numerous and serious and will need to dealt with. I think some posters may be worried you are not realizing how bad things have gotten and are trying to get you to take it seriously.

Maybe you're no saint yourself... but don't let that prevent you from doing what you can to save your marriage...and to tell your husband that his behavior is less than what you desire and deserve in a marriage.

Also, there is such a thing as a serial adulterer: adulterers who live an adulterous lifestyle no matter who they are married to and no matter what their spouse tries to do to improve the marriage. Since your husband is acting badly in so many ways, some of the posters will want to warn you that the recovery rate with serial adulterers is not as good as with a spouse who has commited just one adultery. I was married to a serial adulterer and tried all sorts of things to save my marriage to no avail. MB principles might have worked for me if I had found MB's sooner... but I do feel it's important to warn new posters who have spouses like me X that it will be a bigger battle.

When there is physical abuse in a relationship it needs to be taken very seriously and will need to be addressed in counseling. So of course posters who respond to you are goign to try to get you to see the seriousness of that and may even advise you that the safety of you and your chidlren comes first and is more important than even the goal of saving your marriage.

But even if you are not able to save your marriage, it is still worthwhile to learn and employ the MB principles. You will have given it your best shot and will know that you at least tried to do what's best for your children. And even if your marriage ends you will have learned valuable tools if you marry again in the future.

i dont agree that you have to assume he is a serial adulterer. i just cant agree to that. how can u know that?. he has definitely looking for other girls but i caught him and he admits it was wrong. he is been quite affectionate, left his computer opened for me and..i dont know.
would it be stupid to agree to have sex?, is that not a sign that he loves me?

A,

I don't think that MM is assuming anything. You have told us that your WH has a history of hooking up with women via the internet and that in some cases he has met them. Keep in mind, it doesn't have to involve sex to be an affair.

I know of what I speak because my FWH spent nearly our entire relationship frequenting internet dating sites and collecting phone numbers from women he met in bars when traveling.

He used this as a mechanism for dealing with any difficulties we may have been having and any rough employment situations he was experiencing. I think it made him feel like he was in control of something.

Eventually, he "graduated" to an EA that evolved into a PA. For a long while, I believed that he may have engaged in numerous PA's or one-night stands, even though he adamently denied it to be the case.

But when you have been lied to for so long by someone, it really becomes difficult to trust your own instinct as to whether or not they are being truthful.

I only provide this example for you because what you have described is very familiar to me in my personal situation.

I certainly would, in your situation, go ahead and plan A, but at some point, you are going to want to be able to confirm that he has stopped engaging in inappropriate behavoir. If you can't, it will eat away at you and make recovery pretty much impossible.

Good luck.

Who

I agree with what Star*Fish posted:

"He keeps you in the dark about where he goes, his business, the finances....he is physically abusive....and he's had mulitple affairs and a porn problem. These problems are enormous....together they are overwhelming and scary."

This is based on the description you gave of your WH's behavior.

Your WH has a PATTERN of adulterous behavior - not 'merely' a recent, temporary change from his normal behavior because of involvement with ONE current OW.

The same MB principles will still be helpful but perhaps in much larger doses and over a longer period of time.

We are just trying to help you face the reality of your situation - not trying to offend or discourage you from trying to save your marriage.

He is telling me as much as i can handle to know about the businness. I agree he is not the most honest man in earth but he knows now i want to know so he does explain me. Besides i have ALL documents if i want to learn about what he does. What he does now is very simple, he is trying to sell property so we can move to Spain. i know he is not trying to buy. i have here all the files of banks accs.,, he has always welcome me to have a look at them so i know what's going on with business but i never have had an interest with having to mind kids and all.
He says one of this girls he met only once and that he met through Skype and was only talking to her for a wknd on phone, he says he met her to help her get papers for employment since she's from Ukrania and had no money or good English at the time. and then he kept in touch with her but not often. he doesnt agree this was an EA at all, but he was just trying to help her. he agrees he should have told me about it but says i'd have been mad. He agrees it still was wrong and wont do it again.
He has done the EN Questionnaire and we have talked a good bit throught the wknd.
Yesterday was my birthday and he forgot about it. That hurt me a lot but then he was nice during day doing what i wanted so that kind of compensate.
I was surprised to find out that his 1st EN was affection. I agree i have been cold for yrs. He hasnt been good either, but at least now we are talking and communicating and he is saying all the time how much he loves me and that he loves how i have become so nice.
He says that in order to fulfill my EN and be the H i need he is going to have to stop working. He finds work stressful and that it takes a lot out of him.
He says he only met these 3 girls once and during the month of Sept and i did see that on his computer when i dicovered the emails. So i dont agree he is an adulterer like some posters have said.
i dont know, this is so hard for me, he still wants to communicate and talk so that is a lot.
i went to councelling on my own. he doesnt like this councellor. he says she is on my side completely.
But he agree in reading books, looking at MB, and maybe doing phone councelling with Dr. Harley. This is going to be a long proccess and im willing to give it last try til the summer when we hope we'll go to Spain.
What do u all think?
I am learning i have had a good bit to do with his behaviour, eventhough i know it hasnt been right what he has done.\
The money issue has still to be sorted. He puts money weekly into family account, as long as he puts as much as i budgeted that i needed i'll leave it for a while. i know where the other money he makes goes. It goes to pay all the debt we have with all these mortgages.
He is trying to sell but it's hard at the moment to sell property, i know this because i know that a couple of property has been for sale for at least half a yr but couldnt sell.
About physical abuse, we've both been abusive physically towards each other. i called the guards twice not because i felt at risk or not safe but because i knew that way the abuse would stop and it did about 3 yrs ago.
We have been verbally abusive too but me as much as him

"is that not a sign that he loves me?"

I never said he didn't love you.

What I and others have been trying to get you to see is that he has a pattern of inappropriate behaviors, emotional affairs with OW that may lead (or may have already lead to) physical affairs with OW.

Some of us posting here have first-hand knowledge/experience with being married to a spouse with such a pattern of behavior.

I know all about assuring yourself that because you haven;t seen any proof yet that he is 'in love' with or physically involved with a particular OW yet, that it's not that bad... or won't lead to something worse... I assure you I've been there/done that myself. Unfortunately because I waited for more proof of something more serious before dealing with the problem more assertively, my WXH's addiction to those activites just grew even stronger.

I guess there is some confusion as to what sort of response you are seeking here? The situation you described indicates a pattern of inappropirate behaviors that is in itself called serial emotional affairs. In most cases it is later discovered that what the BS has found out or been told is only the tip of the iceberg and there is much more going on then admitted to or suspected. Perhaps if you read some of the other stories here and the threads about how the WS typically behaves and talks, you will start to see what we see as typical WS words and behaviors?