Thanks Lala, It sounds like you guys had a very good evening. Did the kids settle down for you?

I feel so much better after going curling... for the first time in a long time I actually was able to get my mind of this.

I can only hope that you are right about the seeds taking root. My F thinks that she will not be able to handle X-mas. See I'm French Canadian, and we celebrate x-mas on the eve. When I was a kid Santa came when we were at midnight mass and he was a personal friend of my grandma. So your routine for the last 20 years has been that we go to my parents place on the eve, then drive to my ILs and sleep there for x-mas morning. It worked great. Well this year she's not coming to my folks place and I'm not staying at her parents place. On top of that I'm on vacation for two weeks and I plan so stay there for a couple of extra days. My neighbor is now convinced that the M has skipped town and is avoiding her. Now all of this is just wishful thinking, but its hope, and right now, just a sliver of hope is better than none.

Yeah, we are getting better and better every day.

Mind if I ask...why are you not spending Christmas together? Is she too embarrassed about everything or is it just a planned break from each other..?

The news about OM is very encouraging. The longer NC goes on, the more your plan should work.

The weirdest thing just happened, though. I was looking at the recovery section of the board, just to see if anything new had come up. I went into a post by Jet- something about it drew me in, and I was struck by the similarities in his story. Particularly about the triggers, which were my H's worst enemy. I began posting to him, and in the middle of typing my DH called. I told him I had found someone I was going to reach out to and he goes..."you mean Jet?" I just sat there for a sec in stunned silence. I said "How did you know that?" We did the same thing the other night about Mrs. W's comment about the unconditional love/soulmate stuff. Sitting there talking about something else altogether, and he said "ya know, I've been thinking about" and I said "what Mrs. W said" and he finished "about unconditional love and soulmates." We just looked at each other wide-eyed and laughed.

The thing about Jet is, he just came back to the board after being gone for a while, and DH said "don't you remember that post I had you read back in August that brought up the stuff about his WW's friends trying to get her to go out with them. That's HIM!" How bizarre. It was the only post I had ever read b4 coming here on a daily basis a couple weeks ago. It was a huge catalyst in ending my "friendship" with my XBF. Of all the people for me to connect with...and without even realizing!

Anyways, I hope you get some sleep and take comfort in the good moments. For now, it's the best thing to do!

Basically too embarrased to face the family, and it's kind of a modified plan B. I want her to deal with her folks on her own and get a taste of life would be like. I don't know if it's really a good idea or not but, it's the way she wants to do it. I will be visiting her folka durring my time there so I'll get a chance to talk to them before she gets in town. Only time will tell what kind of imprint it will make.

My MIL did invite me for X-Mas dinner a few days ago. I had made plans to go out for dinner with my folks and my Brothers family.
My WW asked me if I was coming for the X-Mas dinner. I didn't think it would be such a good idea... too much tension as this is the first time we visit either of our parents since exposure and the announcement to separate.

I don't know if my thinking is right on this one. Please comment if any of you think it might be a good idea to accept MILs invitation. I have promised to go help my MIL with a few computer issues and wireless setup for her new laptop, so I will have some time with them. At the end of the day I don't know that they will be of much influence to my WWs thinking, because when push comes to shove she is their daughter and if she needs help (especially financial), I'm sure they will be there for her. That being said no one really knows what her F is thinking. She spoke to him once for about 5 mins since this happened and the conversation did not go into much detail.

I discovered a new LB this morning. My WW was getting ready for work and asked me to turn on the kettle. (She brings hot chocolate) So I thought I’ll clean her cup for her. Well the inside of the cup is black so when I looked inside of it and saw something I assumed that it was dirty, so I dumped what was in it and cleaned the cup only to find out latter that it was just powder in there and I had wasted a whole cup of her favorite hot chocolate. She was somewhat peeved, because she had to use what was left to make this morning’s cup. So we may want to add to the LB list – do not mess with spouses hot chocolate… It’s her favorite kind, after eight hot chocolate, but I’ll go get her some today.

TMTS,

You're creating your own tension and stress...

Why do you have anything to be embarrassed about around her parents? Are they likely to greet you at the door with.."Oh, I see you are still with loser boy. I thought you were dumping him for that sexy hunk..."

Guess what...They want to see you guys recover too, in all likelihood.

If I were you, I'd go and maybe try to see if you can get your folks to understand why it is important to you to be with your W right now.

When at MIL's for dinner, be on your absolute best behavior. Be nice to your W. If the topic of the separation comes up try to remain cool. Try to plan out in advance how you will handle it so that you don't break down.

When we react negatively to something and lash out in anger, it is from our fear. What we fear is being hurt. Our pain makes us angry and we strike at what we see as the cause of our pain.

But once we can control our fear, we can control our anger as well. The pain might still remain, but once we understand that we will survive, we can overcome the fear and do what must be done.

In battle, everyone is afraid. Anyone who is not afraid while being shot at and while someone is trying to blow them to bits has other issues to deal with. Weapons are designed to maximize fear. They are loud and awesome in their power. The destruction they rain down on others can stop a soldier in his tracks and overwhelm him with fear.

But a soldier has to overcome his fear and not be paralyzed by it. He lets it heighten his awareness and senses, uses it to refine and speed up his thought process. If he becomes angry and lashes out blindly, his time is short because he is not acting like he needs to in order to survive. For he not only needs to shoot back, he needs to keep from getting shot himself.

So he fights back the desire to flee the battlefield and begins to fight back the enemy. Others around him see him fighting and begin do the same and finally a counter assault is made. The enemy is defeated.



Right now your wife is afraid. Maybe even more afraid than you are. Some of her aggressive behavior can be attributed to that fear. She has hurt you and is afraid you will hate her...or hurt her in return...or simply stop loving her. If she gives up OM, she might lose you as well and would have no one to fall back on. She can't decide which way to go. OM looks like a poor bet, but in her mind, that means she is losing him as well as you.

Add to that the fear of losing her children. Though she might retain some custodial rights legally, she knows what this is doing to her children. Daughters need their mothers to teach them how to become women. Even the seven year old knows that what Mom is doing is wrong.

Your wife will throw all kinds of things at you in the heat of battle. They will be loud and seem awesome. But they are really only blanks. She can't really kill you with her words, only scare you.

You need to overcome your fear and fight for your marriage. The enemy is not your wife, but the affair. It isn't her fog talk, but her fear. You have to become the leader on the battlefield. You have to stand firm and tall and faithful to your cause, your marriage. Show her by example that the fear can be overcome. Help her to overcome her fear of your marriage being less than she wants from it. Show her by your actions that it can be better than she imagined.

You don't have to defeat your wife to win this war. You have to defeat the affair...

As RIF would say...

Semper Fi!

Always faithful!

Faithful to your wife...

And faithful to your marriage...

Mark

All part of the plan right? I get your point. My going to her folks will be the easy part, no embarrasment there, it's the WW at my folks place that may not be so easy. My folks are meeting me for lunch today and I'll bring it up. I know my F will be ok but is my M I'm worried about, she is very much old school and tells is like it is LBs or not. That and the fact that this has brought up so many bad memories of my F's A I don't know if my M or my WW would be convinced... but it's worth a shot. My F has been reading up on the MB concepts and is in full support. You’re right about my IL's, I've always been good to their daughter and always got along with both of them, in fact I think my MIL would be disappointed if I didn't come.
I'll let you know how I make out.

I was having a good day until after supper when I was sitting on the couch looking at my WW and my eyes started to water up. Unfortunately she noticed, and didn't buy it when I told her I was just tired. So I told her that I was sad, but I was alright. She went to the kitchen to answer the phone and I could not hold on to the tears. Well next thing you know my ODD sees me and comes over and gives me a hug, I apologized for not being strong for her. So before my WW got off the phone, my ODD started up on her on how she upset me, and it was probably because of the hot chocolate incident this morning, where in my ODD's eyes she "wigged" out on me. I did think the hot chocolate thing was such a big deal, but next thing you know my WW decides that she not taking her shopping tonight so my ODD tells her that she doesn't need to live with her. This b**** of a monster has taken the sweet W I married. She completely lost it on my ODD who in turn lost it right back on my WW and told her that I said that the kids would not be hurt by this. Well that really got her going and started suing out things like "he thinks I'm stupid", "I can't believe he said that to you" (Which I didn't by the way, when asked I told my ODD that her M thought that they would be OK and that they would adjust) Which is what she told me. Anyhow, she changed her mind and decided to bring them shopping anyway. I just had a major LB withdrawal from her right now, she keeps this up and we'll need to go into Plan B sooner than later if at all....

Oh I forgot about my WW going on about the hurt that I caused her through the years and arguing with my ODD about how hard it was for everybody. She was freaking right out! I stayed right out of it because my ODD can handle herself quite well.

Is this normal behavior when under the fog? I can tell how stressed out she is right now and she's starting to let it more. It's really getting to her now.

I don't know what to think anymore.

Now she across the street talking to the neighbor about buying a couch... she has no appartment, but she'll have a couch. I don't get it.

Stop...

Breathe...

Deep breath...

<Hold>

Let it out...

Totally, Dude!

Should have had something planned to relieve the stress. Maybe next time you can take DD shopping (and invite W to join you at the last minute. Do this before you are sitting on the couch looking sad.

Always be looking for ways to make LB$ deposits. The more deposits you make, the more she will want to be with you. The more time you spend together, the more deposits you can make...

Just searching here. Not to beat you up, just to get you thinking about being more proactive and less reactive.

Just a thought....

Hang in there, TMTS. Take care of those kids.

Does ODD know what's really going on with Mom?

Mark

Why are you trying to understand someone who is so unreasoning and irrational?

Mark

Yes she knows about the A and knows that she's leaving. She has no ides that this is a fog that she is under.
I'm talking to my F and I feel much calmer now. Don't know where she's going to put that couch...

Hi All,
I've seen a completely different side of her tonight, and all the blame for it is being directed towards me. She blames me for the past, she blames me for pushing her away, she blames me for my ODD's reactions towards her, and she blames me because no one wants to take her side. For the first time I have seen the alien! The true venomous alien and I didn't like it. I was smart enough to stay out of the argument, but like Mark says I need to be more proactive.

LaLa - I read you have somewhat of a temper, did you have days like this? Was any of it directed towards W2S? Was it all directed to him? I’ve never seen anything like this from her; it is completely out of character.

What gets me is that last night and this morning I felt very good, we spent time together last night I felt good all day, then boom! Next thing you know she's loosing it and buying furniture.

I had lunch with my folks today, and that was hard (It was the first time I've seen them since exposure) My M started crying and wouldn't let go of me. That was tough. I couldn't bring myself to ask her if I could invite my WW to come over for X-mas eve (I doubt she would accept, but you never know). I did tell my WW that I would go have X-mas dinner at her folks place. It will be a little awkward but more for my WW than me. She will be very nervous about her M starting up on her. She hasn’t heard her F’s disapproval yet, and I’m sure that won’t be fun either.

I just finished running 3 miles so I do feel better. WW is out shopping with ODD while I'm doing homework with YDD. I hope that she's calmed down by the time she gets back, so we can engage a little. Try to get one or two deposits in there before we go to bed. No R talk though (If she asks about what I told ODD, I tell her the truth… that she thought that they would be ok, and would adjust, but I didn’t agree and they would carry this for a long time). But I sure will not bring it up. I’m not even sure she will even want to talk to me, so we’ll see.

Thanks for everybody’s support.
Mark use the 2x4 if you see the need for it that usually helps.

Tell your daughter that you have a plan. It is good that she knows the truth of her family life.

She needs to remain respectful to her mother, but should feel free to voice her opinions and concerns.

YIKES!!!!!!!!!!! Nothing like a 13 year old daughter!!!!!!!!

[color:"red"]<THWACK>[/color]

Why are you trying to understand this [email]cr@p?[/email]

You do what you have to do. Let her do what she is gonna do.

I know this stuff is hard, but you have to get back to action mode instead of reacting to what she is doing and saying. Study that reverse babble.

"This is all your fault!"

"It must be, I'm being blamed for it."

"You are pushing me away."

"I ask you to stay you get mad. Then you're mad because you think I'm pushing you away."


Don't try to straighten her out about anything. Let it all go.

You have to make her want to spend time with you. You can't do this by trying to fix her or talk sense to her. In this way you are pushing her away. Start planning fun things to do with DDs and invite her after the girls agree to your plans. Do something totally different. Take the girls out for a cup of hot chocolate or something after dinner tomorrow night. Take everyone out for a piece of pie. Do fun stuff together!

Mark

She knows about the plan, but I have let her vent her anger to her mother, and warned my WW to get ready for this because it will come. And it has been coming in tidal waves. She's allot like me in terms of reacting and not backing down once she starts, but I should tell her to tone it down. Even though there is part of me that is hearing what I would like to instinctively say.

I sure hope things have settled down by the time she gets home.

Just a thought,

While shopping with DD13, your wife is likely sharing WAY to many details of your marriage with her (along with some interesting rewrites).

Might want to explain this "wayward tendency" to DD13 in an appropriate and non-disparaging manner and ask her if she has any questions for you and you will be honest with her.

Further, cool wayward moms will typically attempt to be-friend their older children instead of parent them. Entice them with cell phones, luxuries, no-limits, etc in an attempt to sway them over to the dark side. Don't underestimate the cunningness of such lure and the ease with which teenagers can be sucked into it. Teenagers have access to MANY friends of divorced parents who will quickly teach them how to maximize advantage and exploit BOTH of you.

Like tonight...It's likely WW "rewarded" daugther with a lucrative shopping trip to appease her guilt.

Just be mindful.

Mr. Wondering

Good grief, ya'll, I ain't that bad. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Oh, I had my moments for sure (w2t, I can here you huffing at me all the way from work- <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />). Mark's right, you cannot let it bother you. Here's a thought...every time she zings you, think in your head in the whiniest, most childish voice ever- "I am rubber, you are glue..." Kinda like the "picture us all in our underwear" thing when you are scared to death to speak in front of people. Try not to smirk (or come off like a smartass) and do reverse babble. Maybe it'll keep you in the "sane" frame of mind while dealing with the "insanity."

What say you?

BTW- GREAT JOB for not letting her pull you into another useless argument!

I'm getting not bad at this... She got home and the first thing I asked her is if she could feel the rattle in the front right of the car. She told me that one of the headlights had gone out. Then I asked her how she was after the argument with your ODD, she was talking to the neighbor and going over for a drink and a smoke. I didn't interject or invite myself; she needs a little more time to cool down. In the meantime we were upstairs and she asked me how I was feeling, I told her that I felt allot better after my run (Give me another months and I'll be dead sexy, down 35lbs so far). She asked what was bothering me so I explained that I was just sad and in pain over the whole situation, she said she was sorry, so I just said me too.

I could see that she was tense so I gave her a neck and shoulder massage. She told me I didn't need to be nice. You've always known me as nice, not necessarily romantic, but always nice, and she agreed. Then she asked me the question about what I told my ODD, and I was straight worth her. I said that Mommy thinks that we will all be ok and will adjust, but that I thought it would take a very long time. Then she told me that she would do all she can to help her get through this. (I'm not sure what she plans because she will hardly have enough money to support herself).

LaLa - You were there what gives? This sounded allot like the person I know. She was nice and sweet like the person I married. Still intent on moving but sounded rational anyway.