WW on the phone with her M right now and her M started to question her about a GF. Then she said well if it doesn't sork out life goes on. (I know it's babble but I am pissed!)She denied everything of course and said that he lived with his sister. I left a msg with the neighbour letting her know that the cat is out of the bag.

Now I feel that I have to throw the neighbor to the wolves and disclose everything. I don't want to panic here but this will be hard to explain.

We're talking about two different, but related issues here. Your WW knows what the neighbor told her ... that's all. I'm talking about you SHOWING her.

ILA is right about one thing ... you and I have/had an advantage because our WW's were more into the OM than the OM was into our WW's ... both OM's were/are PLAYERS ... only out for themselves to get whatever they can for THEMSELVES. THEY WILL NOT FIGHT FOR YOUR/MY WW. They will only TAKE what they can GET.

Intimidate him ... Stand up to him in front of your WW ... SHOW him to be the sleezy little coward he is. FORCE her to face reality. It doesn't have to be a physical confrontation if that's not your style ... like I said ... it can be done over the phone.

It serves TWO seperate, but very important purposes ... (1) it shows your WW what a loser/coward he really is, and (2) it makes you look GREAT in comparison because you're the one fighting for her, even after she's treated you like dirt. Powerful realizations!!!

DAMMIT MAN ... this loser has been/is F'ing YOUR wife ... what does it take to prod you into action???

Admittedly, this is not MB normal procedure, and if the mods need to delete this post for that reason, I will understand, but you have a HUGE advantage here ... this OM DOESN'T have any feelings for your WW, PLUS he already has another squeeze lined up. He's just disrespecting your WW, the same way she's disrespecting you. All you have to do is make it easier/less painful for him to stay away and he will slink off into the sewer never to return.

At this point, it would appear that you have a 48 hour golden window of opportunity that most of these BH's would kill for, but if you screw around wringing your hands, then he'll help your WW move and be the hero who stood up to you, and he'll get to keep your WW as a little "side" dish for booty calls.

All we know is what you've told us, but you know all the particulars ... use that information to figure out how best to expose this loser to your WW.

Maybe start by marching your WW over to the neighbors and have the neighbor spill the beans right there ... have her tell WW about her phone conversations with the OM, and what his plans are relative to dumping your WW. If that doesn't work, have your neighbor get OM on the phone again, and all of you get on the phone together ... this can't be that hard compared to the HEAVY LIFTING that other BH's are doing at this very moment.

Now ... what is your very best reason for NOT doing something meaningful??? Why aren't you and WW over at the neighbors RIGHT NOW???

Since you know the entire situation, possibly you can think of a better approach ... if so, let's hear it.

Well the timming of our posts could not have been better. Time ot march her over. That's really the only choice.
She'll be done with her M soon and I'll have to come up with something so this is best. Hey the neighbor will hate me but I may save my marriage.

I've wondered if I'm addicted to this message board... well there's not much time during work to peak, so I don't... but all evening! Jeesh, just takes that long to catch up on the few threads I read.

TMTS I'm jealous of your support (where'd they all come from, how can I get some of them?)
I'm glad for you that OM has a GF, but it's of no use until WW believes it. Somehow she's going to have to see it for herself. And really you have done such a wonderful Plan A-she'd be a nut not to want to rebuild with you. Keep up the good work.

I wouldn't throw the neighbor under the bus. You will lose a lot of valuable information. Anyway, even if your wife sees it in writing for herself, she STILL won't believe it. That is just the way WS's are.

We always like to think if they see it in black and white that they will realize what pond scum the OM is, but it usually makes not a tad of difference. The WS continues in their fantasy.

It sounds almost like an intervention for the Addict that is your WW.

Good luck. Hopefully this does the trick. Just let her know that you are concerned about her happiness and don't want to see her get hurt.

Every successful negotiation needs to leave both parties feeling as if they've gotten something out of it....both people have to think they 'gained' something. In this case, WW is gaining the knowledge that is the TRUTH and is gaining a future free of this pain that she would eventually have to deal with when he screws her over.

Call the neighbor on your cell and give her a head's up if you are going to do this. Tell her it's time to get the cards on the table.

HOWEVER, personally, I would play it cool and then show up when he is at her apartment on Saturday. It will blow her mind (and his). Ask him what exactly he intends on doing with your W. If he stammers around and says "nothing-I'm living with another woman" then tell him to get his sorry self on down the road right NOW!! After he's gone, tell your W what I said to say earlier, very calmly. And then leave her there alone.

If you want to prevent the move altogether, go to the neighbor's, get him on the phone and expose him for the worm that he is, whether she acts like she cares or not. Then have the talk with her. Make sure you do not get angry and stay very calm and sweet. But make it very clear where you stand. No more fence-sitting. Take your stand, TMTS, before it's too late.

There's my $.02...Mark...what are we up to...about $.35. I know you hate this advice, but it's the best thing he can do right now, IMO. Plan A is almost over, and TMTS has done a wonderful job in Plan A...he has pampered the crap out of her, and after what she told the neighbor about him waiting around while she dates...Nah-uh, nope, no way...!!!

LaLa,

I'm not against the advice at all. I think TMTS should probably pull the trigger on this as long as it's on the front burner right now. I just don't want him issuing ultimatums that will be sure to cause his LB$ account to drop into overdraft and his heart to break when she doesn't decide to stay and moves out anyway.

I'm the one who recommended reading Dobson, remember?. And the trick is to be willing to let go before you say you are letting them go.

What I had trouble with today was that the advice was leaning toward tell her to [email]cr@p[/email] or get off the pot and if she doesn't stay home and actually moves this weekend, go to Plan B immediately. That would be counter productive, IMO.

As for the current sitch. I say, go for it. If it doesn't work out you still have a couple days to do Plan A miracles and even if she moves out anyway, you already anticipated that, so that is not a catastrophe either.

Just don't go down the shape up or ship out road unless you're pretty sure you want her gone.


Mark

Ok, here we go...It was a beautiful performance.

I gave the neighbor the heads up, and then completely disclosed everything about his having a girlfriend. She already knew and had talked to him about it, he told her that it wasn't true and that he was still living at his sisters. The neighbor did confirm that he had told her that he was living with her and had no feelings for my WW.

Then I started on the speech and laid it all out.
1- The moment you walk out the door, there is no guarantee that I will take you back.
2- I truly believe and fear that he will break your heart, and as much as it hurts my outing on Monday showed me that I want you but do not need you. I will be fine and will make some woman very happy. It is now your choice if that woman is to be you.

She started the fog babble about feeling trapped and needing to find herself (I had to hold back from laughing because I could only picture that post about looking down at your shoes). And that even if it didn't work out she would need time on her own to figure out what she wanted to do. Then she reminded me that I was not affectionate, where I responded that I had thought about it and do not agree that I didn't show you enough attention, but will accept that together we didn't communicate what exactly you needed and assumed because I made fun of romantic scenes in movies that I would not work on this. Then I told her that I was still committed on working on intimacy, but for me, so that one day either her or another lucky (Yes I actually said Lucky) woman can get the love they are looking for.

So this brought us to....

3- I told her that in no way was there any chance in recovery if she ended up seeing other men should it not work out with OM. (I know this might have been premature, but the set up was perfect for it).

She said that she had no intention to ‘sleep’ around. So I made sure she understood that this was a situation where if there was one more man that I was not interested.

I went on a little about understanding allot more about relationships and the differences between how men and women experience love. That I understood that a M has to be actively worked on and not a passive piece of paper in a binder, and that it is something I continue to work on for myself.

She kind of changed her tune a little to what if I called you after a little time and asked you out on a date. I responded by telling her that it depended on the purpose of the date. If it was to get a feel on if feeling where still there, I was not interested, but if it was with the purpose of building on something then it would depend on what is going on in my life at the time....

4- Knowing how you feel about needing time even if things do not work out with OM, I need to move on today and start the healing process. This does not mean that I am ready to see other people but my outing on Monday gave me the confidence that I can go out and meet someone else. So there will be no guarantees.

By now she's a mess, and I'm as cool as a curling rock, all calm and matter of fact, actually smiled a few times when I was talking about my outing on Monday.

So I finish off with this...

One thing I would like you to know... I fear that the OM will break your heart, I do not wish it on you but I truly believe he will. This is something that you can rest assured will never happen between us, I will never break your heart. And I commit to you that should we reconcile that I will work with you on making on M that will be what we both want until the day one of us dies.

There was more that I forget right now, but this was the main theme. Now the ball is in her court and it did leave her thinking. She had a blank stare on her face, so I asked her what she was thinking. She said oh nothing I'm just processing. It was all done very calmly with nothing even close to an LB, almost every line started with a 'I feel' or 'I think'. Not as tough as MyRev would have done but [email]da@m[/email] it I finally stood up for myself and it felt really good. There are no doubts now as to what I will accept for a M.

All this being said she looks like she is still in denial about the OM, the look on her face when I said that I fear that he wold break her heart was classic. She will still move on Saturday but will know the exact path to R, and the boundaries that would break the deal. I think I did OK.

Hiya TMTS,

I have been reading this thread for a while now, and just wanted to say you did just great!

I nearly barfed when she gave you that line about 'finding herself'. My X gave me that one too. And if you read the OM's email to her you know where she got that line from.

So now...Plan A all the way until she leaves at least. Also if I were you, I would be going out one more time before she leaves. Looking good, smelling great and taking care with your appearance. This will back up what you said to her about going out. She will get the idea that you actually liked going out without her, and that you meant it when you said you could do it without her if necessary.

I would go one further and start looking good ALL the time if you haven't already. Take meticulous care over your appearance since you know it got a reaction from her with the neighbour. That was one of the things I did, but my X had left by then and was likely living with OW. I just made sure I was smokin' when he came visitng. And yes, I did get a reaction. For me it was too late, but not for you!

Peace.

YOU GO BOY!!!!

How do you feel?

It like everything I had been doing here for the last two months all came together all at once. I've got a perma grin on right now. The wheels in my head have stopped! I think I will sleep very well tonight. The best thing is that it was done in a way that I jumped right back into plan A and can go on for a few more weeks.

From the look on her face at the end, I really got her thinking. I hope she saw an opportunity to save face and go into R. If not, well it will be her loss. I presented it in a way that made her think that geeze it really wasn’t bad before and from the looks of it he is serious about making it better. I still think she will move on Saturday but I gave myself a good chance for her to come back.

Can someone please tell me where this finding themselves thing comes from, and does it go away with the fog once the A ends?

(((((TMTS)))))

I am so PROUD of you. Heck, I may need to borrow that speech. Oh wait, my WS moved out already. That's ok, I can still state some of those boundaries of what decorumn I expect while he is gone. Anyway, you are doing this all so well. You should definately sleep well tonight. And may you have good dreams about receiving your A++ when you graduate from MB.

not2fun

PS...I guess when you two move into "recovery" I lose my laundry priveledges, huh???

We are not there yet. I'm just in hope mode right now.
I'm hoping that OM will fail miserably at meeting her needs and that will lift the fog.

Oh by the way, you can change your thread title now, because this wasn't nearly as ugly as you thought it was going to be.....

Finding themselves...hmmm...

Well, I would say it has something to do with the drug/high of the A. It's like a word you've never heard b4 and then once you hear it, you see it everywhere. So, once you cross that boundary and feel that "new, exciting, chemistry" crap with someone other than your spouse, you go "OH, maybe we were NOT meant to be together forever." And you start seeing good-looking, interesting people everywhere.

All relationships get stale if the work is not put in by both parties to prevent it from such. At that point, once someone lights that fire again, they are hooked. Until they realize that they can have that with their spouse again, they remain hooked.

It's like- before they are found attractive by someone else, they just assumed they were just another married person...nothing special. Then all of a sudden, they are in a DRAMA starring the WAYWARD MIND, yanno?

It fades...now quit it...enjoy your testosterone surge, sir!

Finding yourself is an expression used to convey the fact that your head is so far up your a$$ that you can't see your way out.

There's a thread around here someplace that talks about finding yourself. I can't remember where it is, but if I can find it I'll post it so everyone can have a good laugh.

Mark

TMTS --- HUGE Thumbs UP !!!

It's late, get some quality sleep, and I'm sure we'll talk tomorrow.

ok, my turn to add 0.02!! I worry about the dressing up and going out one more time... I wonder if that could be considered a game? Maybe games are ok in cases like this? I couldn't/wouldn't do it though.

TMTS-- how about take her out "one more time" dress up, get smelly and show her a good time, if she's willing. But really, if she doesn't want to, then how about "go out" with a buddy or buddies, don't make it look like you're going out to hit on someone.

That is sooo cool that you were calm enough to "enjoy" the finding herself statement! You've done teriffic.