Let me start out by saying I am VERY protective of my children. I live most of my life with "better safe than sorry" and especially where my children are concerned. My H thinks I go overboard where the kids are concerned, and I know I am probably more protective over them than some parents, but I don't think I go overboard.

Anyway, my H does things that I feel put our children at risk. He is a great dad, and I know he doesn't do these things because he doesn't care. He just is not a worrier...where as I am.

Here are some examples...he let our 6yo (at the time) go to the restroom by himself while at a very big cinema complex. Which I think is too dangerous to begin with, but he did this 1 week after another 6yo boy was almost kidnapped going to the restroom at an outdoor movie in our town. This past weekend, we were on an interstate doing about 70mph when our son wanted something he couldn't reach, so my H told him to unbuckle and get it...which meant getting out of his booster seat and leaning over the back to dig through our luggage to find what he was looking for. He lets the kids ride in the car without booster seats and sometimes in the frontseat with airbags in our neighborhood because he says "We're just in our neighborhood. Nothing is going to happen."

It scares me to death. Am I wrong to feel this way? He says I worry too much...and I know I do, but come on, these are our kids we're talking about.

How can I talk to him about this without him just blowing me off?

Ruby,

I waited, hoping you'd get a response from others. I feel like I hound you...

I totally understand your protective, nurturing point of view. You're a mother.

Fathers balance our nurturing, securing, protecting, fearing, worrying...they teach our children creativity, risk-taking, ownership...

Opposites for a reason...for balance.

Each necessary to the other...and I understand you fear, greatly. You choose to worry, live in what hasn't been...we've talked about this.

And yes, horrible things can happen. I'm remembering The World According to Garp.

If you haven't read it...you might want to pick it up.

The closest I came to actually hitting my DH was when he allowed my ten-year-old son to drive a go-cart without protection of any sort...when we'd agreed (me forcing him to agree) this MS wouldn't.

MS didn't die...didn't get permanently harmed...remembers the event with joy and feeling scared to death. He remembers most his father watching him, though.

You're both essential...neither wrong, bad or harmful. Share with your H you KNOW he knows possible consequences...trust that he does..."I wasn't thinking" doesn't excuse...and ask yourself...

what's your payoff in seeing your partner as a danger to your children? Is that in the present, right now? Do you somehow control the future if you can think of everything possible which may go wrong...then it won't?

LA

We went to see our D17's C with her last week, because she was feeling that we were overprotective. She has never been allowed to go to the mall without one of us, she only went on her first date a month ago, and even then, my H went overboard and blew up at her because the boy took her to his mother's to meet her instead of just going to the restaurant, and for going to a different restaurant. The boy is now dating someone else; I think he decided D17 was too much trouble.

Anyway, the C pointed out that our restrictions are appropriate - for an 8th grader. If an 11th grader is still having the same restrictions, she'll start being excluded as her friends will just not ask her to go places, knowing she'll have to say no. This is exactly what's happening. So she got to go to a birthday party at the mall last Friday. She was giddy with excitement.

Not exactly the same situation, but do you see how our overprotectiveness can be detrimental? I'm similar to your husband. I want my daughter to learn to take risks. Her father won't do such things, so I work extra to do it myself, to let her see me taking risks so she'll feel safe to do so.

I completely understand the situations you described, I'd be watching my kid go in the bathroom and come out; I'm not sure I'm that careful about the car stuff, though. I know if there was an accident, I'd hate myself. But in the long run, I don't want to raise a child who's so fearful of what MIGHT happen that he's too paralyzed to try.

My SIL was so overprotective that she wouldn't park in a store parking lot unless the space was right up against the store, so that her son wouldn't run the risk of crossing in front of a car. She called his school and got his F in PE changed to a B, because he's 'special.' (and that doesn't mean mentally, he's normal) Today, he's in college, and he's a ghost of a person. It's scary how...unphysical he is, because he was never allowed to do anything.

I guess what I'm trying to say is pick your battles. If you see immediate potential danger, like letting a child get kidnapped, sure, fight for it. But you need to let him experience the thrill of tempting fate a little. It's how they learn to succeed in life. JMO

Let me start off by saying the following is how I am reading both of your posts.

What I'm hearing is I should let my child take risks and I hope nothing bad happens. I just don't agree with that in certain situations.

I do not think it is okay for a child to be crawling around the car looking for a pillow while the car is going 70mph down an interstate. I do not think it is okay for a young child to go to a public restroom by himself...especially while his parent sits watching a movie and has no view of that child as soon as he steps out of the theater...and especially a week after another child his age was attempted to be kidnapped in a similar situation. I don't see either of these situations as a risk, a challenge a child should learn to take.



I don't consider this the same at all. Are we not suppose to protect our children because of what might happen? Are we not suppose to know that cars do get in accidents, children are kidnapped and therefore, be prepared, try to prevent serious injury or worse? Or just worry about it, think about it when it happens...a little too late?


I am all for taking risks. Risks are definitely a part of spreading your wings...but not risks that put your life in danger. That makes no sense to me. As a mother, I am suppose to protect my children from that.


I see potential danger in a child going to a public restroom by himself at the movies. I see potential danger of flying through the windshield at 70mph too. And by allowing him to do those things, I am placing him in the path of that potential danger.

So how far am I suppose to let my child go in the name of feeling the thrill of tempting fate? I just do not understand that at all.

LA, please don't ever hesitate to post to my threads...I was actually hoping you would.

Ruby, I'm certainly not saying to put your child in harm's way. I did agree that I would not sit in a movie while my child went to the bathroom, did I not? I agree that a car on a freeway is a dangerous situation; however, I think that raising a child to fear unbuckling the seat belt to reach something, which could take maybe 5 to 10 seconds before re-buckling the seat belt, could, long term, possibly be worse than the 10-second risk of something happening.

I guess I'm just talking about degrees. You can certainly raise a child with a healthy respect for safety. But I've also seen people become crippled with fear, because they were raised to see everything as a potential threat to their safety; their safety begins to become their overriding concern, and determines what they will and won't try to do - which basically becomes nothing - they do nothing. To me, that is worse than 'tempting fate' once in awhile. Again, it's just my opinion.

I look at kids who have parents who take them hiking, skiing, mountain climbing, sailing, motorbike racing. They love life. They take it on with gusto. They take risks and become very capable at most any physical activity they attempt. Because each one of those moments when they faced fear and overcame it, they grow a little bit stronger emotionally. Then I see kids whose parents (usually the mother) say, 'no, she might fall off the horse' or 'are you kidding? motorbikes kill people'; those kids are often egocentric (i.e. self-absorbed instead of looking outward), unsure of themselves, shy, and afraid to try a new job or speak up for themselves in uncomfortable situations.

I don't know you, so maybe you've already got that good balance going. If so, sure, fight for things like this with a clear conscience. I was just suggesting that, if your concern over these things is the tip of the iceberg, and you are similarly overprotective in other areas, such as I described above, you might want to consider the benefit of letting your child face down his fears - and, yes, take risks that might result in a broken arm - and feel the greatness of accomplishment.

I realize that a person can be too overprotective...and this is something that I have to work on myself. I have no idea why I'm this way because my parents certainly did not raise me this way.

However, I do feel I have a pretty good balance...because I am very aware of my nature and work hard not to let it be too much so to speak.

I encourage my children to spread their wings...to take a chance...like playing football, driving a golfcart while on vacation, kayaking in the ocean. I just do not see certain things, like the seatbelt thing, as spreading their wings. I see that as dangerous and unnecessary. My h just doesn't think anything bad will happen so what difference does it make.

catperson, I can see and agree with some of your views. Putting my child in danger so he can feel like he has accomplished something...I just don't see, but that's me. Afterall, a headon collision only takes a second and a pillow isn't worth that risk to me.

Anyway, my orginal question was how do I talk to my H about this. He just blows me off with "Nothing bad is going to happen"...hmmm, maybe he should watch the news more than espn.

Sounds to me that those two specific examples you gave are the edge of your boundary.

Your hills to die on.

I respect your choice those are the minimums you can live with. If those two are that set, what does your H think? Will he abide by those? Go with DS5 to the restroom in public (what age will you allow him to go alone at the movies or in public?) until he's ___ years old.

And to pull over if he wants one of his kids to be crawling around looking for something for him...not unreasonable.

However...if you have several more of these lined up, where you make them the edge of your boundary, as well...where your H would say this and that is what gets him the most...not these two, then look at where you draw the line.

Your parents may not have reared you this way...experiencing loss, even loss of a parent, certainly can.

Is that real information he shared with you or a DJ...that he just doesn't think anything bad will happen so what difference does it make? What if you both are sharing your stuff relating it to the same thing when it's really about two different things?

You want him to help you safeguard your children in reasonable ways...or do you want him to also safeguard your fears in honorable ones?

Where you both have separate beliefs on this subject and want the other to change their thinking? He may want you to change yours just as much as you want him to change his.

Your H may have experienced foretelling over and over again...including, keeping making that face and it will freeze like that. He could have been worried over, chided, directed and demanded of enough to have shut out his reasonable fear with his unreasonable fear...locked up all in the same box. Or he may have wished someone he was angry with got hurt and poof, they were...fulfilling wishes in childhood...meaning he wishes nothing bad will happen so it won't.

Do you want to know his stuff or control his stuff?

Do you want him to know your stuff or control your stuff?

To me, same issue, two beliefs...and an incredible opportunity to get to know one another deeper, in hidden places, even from yourselves.

LA

PS - As for the news...for as often as something happens, there are a thousand times in between where it didn't happen...he's not unreasonable or uninformed.

I still just do not understand this way of thinking. I realize the % of bad that happens is very low, but it still happens.

And his point of view is...nothing bad is going to happen. This is what he says. He tells me I worry too much. He tells me the chance of this or that happening is so little, why worry about it. Well IT does happen!

I do not see the point to put your children in dangerous situation when they don't have to be...and it isn't about them growing.

Of course, I know at some point my child will need to go to the restroom by himself...heck, I wish he could now...I don't enjoy leaving a movie or whatever for a pee break. He is still at an age where he is vulnerable.

And it isn't just these two things. There are several instances where he lets both of our children take unnecessary risky actions. Things to me that are just CRAZY! No reason to them at all. Things that have nothing to do with growth or things that he is too young to understand/comprehend at this point.

He tells me often, well I didn't do that as a kid or I did that as a kid and nothing happened to me. Well that was over 30 years ago and things/people are a wee bit different now!

I want him to safeguard our children.

I honestly feel like denial is bliss for him.


But it DOES happen. How many times it doesn't happen doesn't negate the fact that it does happen. Why take that chance?

I think I know his stuff because he has told me...see above.

My stuff according to him is I worry too much.

I didn't hear you answer my question...is this the final edge of the boundary? I don't hear you understanding his point of view nor him hearing yours.

I don't see POJA.

I don't see you defining what hill you really want this marriage to die on.

This is important stuff.

You don't see him as reasonable...and you say there are other crazy acts of irresponsibility.

He thinks you're as extreme as you think he is...

It's not all or nothing.

It's in between.

Yes, it happens...and it doesn't happen. We don't have that control. Did you ever read Joseph Heller's "Something Happened"? Nothing really happens in the book except the first-person father's internal monologue of his fears with his son...until something happens.

Why not read it and see if you can see a middle ground, a meeting place between your two extremes? I hear you saying you're not extreme at all...would you consider your anger and resentment is extreme? Your reactions extreme?

If you want to make your H the bad guy in your marriage...see him as actively attacking your marriage through his belief and perspective...or through his acts of negligence, not loving your children...that's your choice.

What's your payoff? So that when something does happen, he will be the cause? You won't be blamed? Won't be your fault?

Why take chances? Read Cat's posts...for EVERY action there is a consequence...that you can't forsee, define or control. Too much or too little usually gives the greater consequences. Just right does, as well. What do you really want, Ruby?

For your children to be protected from harm, pain, fear? They are harmed, feel pain and fear. They do. You cannot stop that. Is your desire for them to stay alive, to grow up? You really don't control that, either. You have influence...not power, not control.

And that's terrifying. Has been since before they were born...will they be born okay? Will they live? The dreams of what if...all that could go wrong, wreck your heart to pieces...didn't. You have alive, healthy children. You want to keep them that way. Do you have more control now than before? Really?

Prudence is not unreasonable. Holding the whole picture in your hands, understanding that what doesn't happen is equally real as what does happen...your choice how to live your life, what your life experience will be...how you deal with your stuff when you feel harmed, hurt and fear greatly.

Yours.

Do you believe putting your marriage first will kill or maim your children? Because what I see is you attacking your marriage and your partner in the name of your children. What's your top priority?

LA

Ruby, it's sometimes helpful to look at the bigger picture. Naturally, if there is a child predator in your area, you need to be extra vigilent, and accidents can happen anywhere. It's not your husband's driving, it's the other crazy drivers on the road.

That said, here's how I get through without being overprotective. I pray to God to help me realize that the children are only mine on loan. I'm their steward, not their owner. They need to learn to live their own lives, and that really they belong to God, and he can call them home at any time.

This helps me allow the girls to go down to the corner store alone. Or walk across the street to the park (armed with a cell phone). Or stay home while I go grocery shopping.

I'm wondering if you sat down with your H and discussed how you'd raise healthy children who have enough independence to learn how to handle real life when it comes at them what would happen. It could be your H will more likely to take son to bathroom for the next year or so, because you've agreed that age 9 is appropriate for learning how to go to the men's room alone. And that a 9 year old will know to scream bloody heck if some perv approaches him.

When meeting with D17's C, she said something that helped my H agree to loosen his restrictions a little. Not your situation, but kind of the same idea. C said that she'll be going to college in 2 years. C asked us, would you rather her learn how to date and fend off pervs and solve other issues now, while she's near enough to you to ask for your help, or would you rather keep her safe and protected - and isolated - for the next two years, and let her have to learn it all on her own, when she's 600 miles away?

Here's another example I love. Not quite about safety, but kind of the same thing. A man spoke at D's elementary school PTA meeting. He said he'd been there all day, watching moms and dads coming up to school all day, bringing backpacks, lunches, papers and other stuff that the kids had forgotten. He said we're doing a disservice to our kids by fixing their mistakes and not letting them suffer a little bit yet learn from the consequences. So what if he forgets his lunch? The school will give him a PB&J. If he turns the paper in a day late and gets a 50, he'll be more likely to never forget a paper again. Then he said: 'You need to let your kids make their mistakes and learn from them now, while they're little kid mistakes, rather than overprotect them from consequences so that they make their mistakes later, when they will be big kid mistakes, like drugs and death.' In other words, let everything be a learning and growing experience, even if they suffer a scrape or red face.

As for safety, my best friend has 9 kids. The first two, she watched like a hawk. By the time the 9th came around, she barely even bothered to watch him, because she learned by then that they usually have the sense and luck - and odds in their favor - to take care of themselves.

LA,

This is not my hill to die on in regards to my marriage...is this what you mean by this being the final edge of my boundary.

I didn't think I was attacking my H or my marriage. But if telling him that I feel allowing our child to go to the bathroom by himself or unbuckle and crawl around out car going 70mph is dangerous and scares me is attacking him and our marriage, well then I guess I am.


I thought I said I realize I am overprotective and try to be aware of this when making decisions for my children.

I realize I can be extreme when it comes to them. I just don't see how thinking a child crawling around your car on the interstate isn't safe as being extreme. I don't see my reaction as extreme either because we aren't fighting about it. I tell him what I think...he tells me I worry too much...and that's it until the next situation.


So because I think my H's actions are putting our children in possible danger then I am making him the bad guy? I am attacking my marriage?

I should accept that these things aren't as important to him, seatbelt/bathroom scenerio...as they are to me. He just isn't worried that anything bad will happen...as I am.

And I don't believe he loves them any less than I do because of this. I just wish he would be more cautious where they are concerned.

How I am reading your post is I have no control over protecting my children so I should just go with the flow. Hope nothing bad will happen.


Are you serious?

I honest do not understand these responses.

How in the world are you okay with putting your kids in danger. We have seat belt laws for a reason. There are child predator laws for a reason. We don't play with guns for a reason.

How is defying things like this allowing your child to grow?

I just do not understand this way of thinking.

I'm sorry, I just don't.

LA,

I am really trying to understand this.

No, I do not think by putting my marriage first that that will hurt my children.

But I also don't see how being concerned with my children's safety and taking precautions is attacking my marriage and my H.

Because I don't agree with my H's nonchalance about it...because I try to talk to him about it...then I am attacking him and our marriage?

Then what do I do?

I know he doesn't act this way because he doesn't care...he just isn't worried that something bad could happen...so he doesn't take precautions.

I've told him it scares me. Now I just leave it alone? Pray nothing happens? Is that the best way to deal with this?

Okay...you have a boundary...your son and the public restroom...at what age will it be okay? I'm okay with whatever age you say, like GG said...and Cat.

Pick the age. Negotiate with your H. Say this is really important to me...right up there with (pick your level...infidelity, death, permanent disability, imprisonment...whatever your level)...and I want to talk to you about you making sure you go with him to a public restroom until he's ___ age.

Then you have to know how you are going to enforce this boundary. It's been stated, he knows...what's next if he refuses? After that?

Same with driving/crawling around. What are your boundary enforcements...what are you willing to do? This is really important to you.

Same for the other ones you're not sharing...list them to your H...are you open to negotiating, POJA on this or not?

Since you don't see yourself as extreme in this, rather you're the reasonable one...and he's the extreme (nonchalance means to me acting as if you don't care...and you said you know he cares as much as you do)...then sounds like to me there's no room to negotiate.

What are his biggest fears in relation to the children? Do you acknowledge, validate and negotiate with him on them?

LA

Ruby, this is not about putting your children in danger. Not one of us has said "Throw your children in harm's way."

We've talked about ways to negotiate the level of risk with your husband. Is no risk acceptable? In that case, you don't ever take your children in the car. So, already, you've deemed some risk is acceptable. (Which indicates you are a sane person.)

Was it wrong of your husband to send his son to the toilet alone? I wouldn't say so. Is it wrong of you to take him to the toilet? No.

Get over the "right or wrong" of this. Try to find a way that will make you both happy. Have a plan that you both agree with.

And the reason we're talking in general terms is because you painted this as an ongoing problem not simply about the movies and the retrieving something from the car.

Ruby, this thread is painful to read! Lots of triggers for me here. I remember coming to the conclusion that H was unreasonable, negligent, thoughtless, and reckless when it came to the kids. You do see how these conclusions create disconnect with him, right?

Where there is pain, it's not just from the others' action. I felt that drop in core value because I was leaving my kids unprotected. Knowingly.

Every day people make decisions that put their kids at needless risk. Doesn't make them incompetent. Makes them human.

Where are the solutions here? The POJA? What do you think about taking on more of the chauffering?

Just for today, ruby, I do feel like my kids are safe. If I don't feel that way, some days I don't leave home without 'em. Other days I Let Go and Let God. I think there are lots of solutions here.

(((ruby)))