Thanks PM. I know you guys are probably right, but it's just so hard (in all of this) when you sit on the sidelines and can see all of the destructive things your WW is doing but there's nothing you can do about it.

That's the hardest part for me. I'm a manager for my company and I get paid to "fix" things and manage people. Not doing that in this situation is the hardest thing I've done.

Appt with SH got pushed back to 2:30 as he's running late in his appts (it stinks that he's so good, not!) so I'll post again after I talk with him.

Ditto with PM's advice to ignore the f(r)iend. My wife had one of those, and she no longer speaks to her (except to swear---they really are on the outs). There's very little that you'll be able to do to manipulate that situation in a way that would benefit you, IMO.

LOL---I wonder if the guy ever gets to eat a lunch...

Talked to SH. He said it feels like to him that WW still doesn't think the A is over so she hasn't really gone through the WD thing. He says her anger has subsided and that she may be de-fogging some, but he doesn't really think WW thinks it's over. Just kind of like being in an "A holding pattern".

He wants me to again bring up the perfect scenario. Tell WW that I'm not happy and I know she isn't, but if there was a way for us both to be extremely happy together, would she be willing to look into it.

We'll be having that conversation soon, when WW seems receptive and I'll let you know how it goes.

Sent WW an email asking her again to talk with SH. Told her I wanted a marriage where we were both happy. Told her right now I knew she didn't have feelings for me, but if there was a way for us to be truly in love and extremely happy in our marriage, wouldn't it be worth looking into, for ourselves, our kids and our families/friends.

Told her that by talking to SH she wouldn't be making any commitments, he wouldn't try to convince her to do anything against her wishes, etc.

I then put something in about contributing to my half of the marriage condition and my willingness to work together to make it work.

Also put something in there about wanting to grow old with her, spoil our grandkids with her, but not in a marriage where both of us weren't happy.

We'll see if I get a response. I know some of you feel these kinds of things are better done face to face, but I know my WW and if she can read and digest this kind of stuff without me sitting there staring at her etc, it'll have a better chance of working. There was one time during the heights of the A that I did the same thing (email) and that night I almost thought she was going to give SH a try, but in the end she said no. Hopefully, with the A seeming to be over and her seeming to be somewhat over exposure to OMW she'll bite.

Good luck with it, Hope. I'll keep my fingers crossed...

Thanks K. I'm keeping my fingers crossed also. I'm Hopeful that this time she may bite in that she seems to be responding to me somewhat the last couple weeks, however small those responses have been. Typical rollercoaster of WD. Her one comment a couple weeks ago about "all her decisions" being wrong is an encouragement to me that she's starting to figure this out.

I'll be sure to let all my peeps know what kind of response I get.

I did also say in the email that our DS15 had said to me not too long ago that he "just wishes we could go back to when we were all happy". If that doesn't get to her I don't know what will!

H4U,
It seems like it would be very helpful if you knew what she was doing at work.. emailing OM? Have you asked her if she is still contacting him??

Here are a couple of nuggets I used, maybe something here will help you and your WW.

1) What would she do if she only had 6 months left to live?

2) Analogy:
Feelings and emotions are like riding in a dinghy in a stormy ocean. Storms and feelings come and go, waves toss you about in all different directions. It is easy to sink by acting on feelings because you never have direction to find harbor or land. But faith, morals, values, and vows are the lighthouse. Guided by the lighthouse you will find what you need.

Feelings come and go. Just as she has fallen out of love with you she CAN fall out of love with OM. Then you will have a chance to fall in love with each other again if she can see to give your marriage that opportunity.

3) Have you been praying?

4) anti depressants. My wife committed to NC many times and broke them all. I still don't have that. But on Friday 12/21 she started on Zoloft. 12/27 she said I have become an amazing man (through plan A), that she knows she wants to be with me to dance at our children's weddings and see our grandchildren born. She attributes a big mood shift to the ADs.

5) I sent email to OM... "Please know I will do whatever it takes to keep my family and marriage together." It lets him know that you have a way bigger committment to this than he does. Maybe it will set him thinking about greener pastures with less baggage.

Thanks Big.

Not sure we're ready to have those kind of conversations yet. Yes, I've been praying more than I ever have. It helps a lot. I always get a calm feeling after I've prayed. Was praying at 3:30 am this morning. Had got a call from work and after the call I prayed for a while and when I got up for work I felt a lot more relaxed.

Don't think we're at a point where WW would tell me if she was still in contact with OM while at work. We'll be having that conversation soon though...

I've thought about calling/emailing OM. Not sure if that's a good idea or not. I have been talking with OMW almost daily since exposure to her (11-13) and she tells me OM has a real dislike for me, part of which comes from me talking to OMW. Too bad for him. I'll talk to her if I want to. She's going through a rough time also and I'll help her all I can.

I'll have to think on that AD thing for WW. We've just begun to communicate with each other after her anger at exposure, so I'm not pushing it. There seems to be times when she's starting to come out of it although SH thinks she's just in an "A" holding pattern in that she doesn't really think the A is over. I'm not sure I agree with him as her actions are like everyone here has described when someone is coming out of the fog, little by little.

I'm still keeping my guard up. WW and OM may be just playing it cool for a bit. OM may have ended it back in early Dec and WW just hasn't figured out it really is over. OMW is convinced OM will move on to someone else as WW is too much trouble for him and he's worried about his reputation with our company (he's a contractor) if this got out. He's worried he wouldn't work for us again, so that's to my advantage.

I had sent WW a note yesterday asking her to talk with SH. She didn't respond to that note or say anything last night. I'm taking that as a good sign in that previous times I've asked her to talk to SH she has flat out said "no" shortly after I asked. Last night she was fairly engaging in conversation when I got home and she actually looked at me at one point that if you didn't know what has happened the last 10 months you'd think she was flirting with me. Later in the night she made some real efforts at talking with me when she wouldn't have done that in the past few weeks. Seems to me that her not answering my request to talk to SH means she's thinking about it.

Only time will tell. OMW says she's divorcing OM because he can't even honor her simple request for him to stay out of the bars. One day last week she told him that was going to be one of the things he'd need to do. He promptly went out for "one drink" and stayed 5 hours, came home and picked up their oldest son and went back out until 1:00 am with him. That's when she made her decision to go the D route. Will that mean OM thinks he can pick right up with WW? Possibly, but again, why would he risk his job etc when he can just move on to someone who is less trouble?

You can't verify NC etc. until she agrees to stay and work on the marriage, so there's no point in worrying about it. There's also no point in asking her if she contacts him from work. If she said no, you'd suspect or at least recognize that she could be lying, and she's unlikely to say yes, so the question is irrelevant as the answer won't satisfy you. So don't even ask.

It seems you're seeing some good signs from her. How long are you willing to stay in Plan A? Did you discuss this with Steve? Did he suggest any time frame?

Thanks TYK.

I agree there is no point in pressing the NC right now as she'd lie if there was contact. My best hope (at this point) is that OMW is correct in her assesment that OM has moved on and WW will figure that out (or has already). I still have some exposure tactics that could help if I get to that (kids, WW's family, work etc), but SH wants me to hold off on that to limit the damage if we can accomplish what we want without it. Like SH told me, right now he wouldn't be too worried about some phone/IM/email contact as it's probably including conversations that they haven't had before and will be filled with LB's.

I can stay in plan A for quite a while as long as I'm seeing little signs of progress in the right direction. I'm actually in a pretty good place right now. It seems she's processing this A crap and slowly responding to me. Last night was a perfect example. I told WW that I had 3 people who work for me call in sick yesterday and she asked me what was wrong with them and we had a discussion about the "stuff" going around our area and how some people are ending up in the hospital with dehydration. Now, if this was a few weeks ago she would have ignored me when I told her that, but last night she actually made an effort to respond. It was nice. If she does get back together with OM I'm ready to go the Plan B route. So either way, I've come to a calm point that allows me to really concentrate on my plan A.

WTF? A new leaf?

WW had planned on going out with the "girls" tonight. Of course she didn't tell me. Friday's I've taken to looking at her online work calendar (she doesn't know or care that I still have access to it) and there was a meeting notice from the young girl that has been enabling her A.

The meeting notice said dinner at an Italian Restaurant and then said "Anything goes AT THIS PARTY"!

So I thought, guess it's another night home with our DS15 for me. I just called him a bit ago and asked him if he wanted me to bring him something home for dinner and he asked "what time are you going to be home". I told him probably in an hour. He said, no, Mom just called and said she wasn't going out and would pick him something up on her way home?!?!?!?

Again I say WTF? WW gives up a chance to go out with the girls (including enabilor maximus)? Good sign? I need to figure out a way of thanking her for coming home without being too obvious about it.

been keeping up with your thread -

sounds like good sign but you never know what is going on in the WW mind.

Thanks RW. I just keep reminding myself, actions not words and this definiely seems like a "good" action.

We'll see how she is when I get home. If she's responding to me I'll take that as another good sign.

Hope I don't get too let down, but again it seems like a good sign.

WW didn't go out with GF's last night = good sign.

WW was depressed last night and barely spoke to me = Good sign or bad sign?

Don't know. I think her depression is a continuing good sign.

DS19 came home last night from our home town but he didn't get home until after I went to bed so I don't know if we're taking him back to school today or tomorrow. Either way it'll be good to see him. Our son's are what keep me going through all this. They give me the strength to keep fighting when I feel lost.

We'll see how today goes. I'll keep you posted.

Hope:

It's always good when the wayward spouse chooses home over the addictive stuff---regardless of mood.

Oh, I think GOOD SIGN! One of 2 things happened (maybe both, maybe neither, just IMO)...she was supposed to see OM and he said forget it (I get this from the little twit's meeting notice) OR she just decided it would be better to stay home with you. Either way it is good news. If he is blowing her off, now is a great weekend to Plan A her. Keep it light, no R or A talks. Sounds like you have set your boundaries anyways, so there's no point to it right now. Stay positive, focus on the prize- not the heart-breaking effort.

You are doing great...big smiles...you da man this weekend!

Thanks LaLa & K. I appreciate the replies.

LaLa - I hadn't thought about OM possibly coming up here Friday night and him possibly blowing her off so that's the reason she came home instead. I guess it is a good sign either way, she didn't want to spend time with the "twit" (I like that LaLa, that'll be her name on here from now on, thanks) and the other girls or OM blew her off.

Yesterday WW ignored me pretty much the whole day. Very short answers to my attempts at engaging her in conversations. Sometimes wouldn't even give me a short answer. Had a pretty bad trigger shortly after noon and it had me really down for quite a while.

I took DS19 back to college yesterday afternoon. It's about a 5 hour round trip. It was just killing me driving, talking to him like nothings wrong. Anyway, after I dropped him off I called my friend D to try and work through the trigger and during the conversation I had an thought come to me that really put me back in a pretty good mood.

I mentioned in an earlier post that WW and the twit were trading TM's a week ago and WW told the twit that she was really missing OM. The twit then was trying to get WW to go to Fla with her cause "it would do you some good and there's lots of guys from Australia" in the area she's going. And here's what hit me....If OM hadn't blown WW off, why would the twit be wanting WW to go to Fla to meet guys as it would do her some good?

And now WW avoids going out with the twit and the other girls. And she's ignoring me this weekend. She's not really angry, just more quiet and down. ALL GOOD SIGNS!

WW still hasn't answered me about talking with SH. D thinks, and I tend to agree, that this is another good sign. If she was thinking a flat out NO, I'm not talking to him she would have come right out and said it. Her not saying anything makes us think she's considering it but she's at the point right now that she can't bring herself to admit that she F'd up and wants to try to R the marriage. D says in her A after the thing ended and she realized what a messed up thing it had been that it took her a number of weeks to let herself admit it to herself. We're both thinking that's where WW might be right now. Her mood swings are a good sign that (like LG said to me earlier) that my W and my WW are in conflict right now and there are times W wins and other times WW wins.

Ok, I've rambled on enough. We'll see what today brings.

I'm with ya! Sounds like the twit needs to find another single friend to hang around with and leave your W alone. Have you thought about confronting her? Just a short email or something to the effect of "Why would you try to actively seek to destroy a marriage of many years, and with children who need both their parents at home? Why don't you find some other single friends to run around with? I am trying to recover a once happy marriage and I love my wife very much." And just leave it at that. Not saying it would do any good, and your WW is gonna be PO'd if you do, but...at least you are actively standing up to what the twit is trying to accomplish (may not want to call her that to her face though!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sounds to me like she is really struggling inside. Time to make some deposits!!! (if she'll let you).

Thanks LaLa, I thought about confronting the twit but SH thought it would do more harm than good, so I'm going to trust him on that one. He says that the twit isn't really an issue. Not sure I agree with him on that, but I guess it's what I'm paying him for. If we do get to a recovery point I'll then discuss with WW the influence of the twit and then I'll get my chance to tell her where to go.

WW was pretty ok this morning. She wasn't feeling well for a while and I made quite a few bank deposits taking care of her (at least what she would let me do). After that she actually initiated some conversations with me, so that's good. I went out to get something to eat and when I came home WW was down again. She was baking something and then has been up in bed for a couple hours now. Depression = good. That's pretty sad when you say it, but it's true.

Just plugging along.