SS, that is a pretty common belief with MEN. They want to believe their wife was the victim of a predator.


Did he tell her about the affair at that time?

Ok...I finally got about a 3 minute block of time and I took 2 minutes of it to read the above completely through.

I'm kiddin', of course. I'm a detail guy and a deliberate reader. So it took awhile.

It is apparent you've had this all bottled up for some time so I hope just expressing it and sharing it with others in a safe environment was, itself, cathartic.

1. Expose to OM's wife. No phone call...to risky. Letter from wife, maybe containing some irrefutable evidence, proof-read by husband, posted here on MB for comment and mailed/fed x'ed with signature requirement to OM's wife (maybe at her job if you fear OM is always home and may intercept it)

2. No husband wants to tell his wife that she can't follow her dreams. It's further heartbreak to feel controlling and domineering. He shouldn't have to bear fear of your resentment. However, a former wayward wife would VOLUNTEER to shelve those aspirations for now (and likely later indefinitely unless and until he BEGS you to take it back up). You certainly DON'T have to make any permanent decisions TODAY....but, at least, guarantee him that all the music stuff, CD's, Band stuff is out the door and will not even be mentioned until January, 2009. By that time you both will be well enough in recovery to make joint rational decisions. You've got kids to think about here.

3. SS, you've certainly created quite the financial mess. (it's typically...I'm not berating you...I understand). Nothing worse than creating a mess and asking him to shoulder most (some would say ANY) of the responsibility for cleaning it up. Dr. Harley's got some writings on Just Compensation and part of that involves paying as much of the cost for the affair as possible. You obviously can not even begin to make up for the opportunity cost lost but you can forego some things and work your butt off to do what you can...which MAY mean doing more at home so your husband can work MORE and be supported fully doing so. Maybe it means waitressing on the weekends. I don't know...that's for you to figure out.

I hope I'm not getting ahead of myself. Generally the concept of "just compensation" typically gets more discussion MONTHS after the wayward has recommitted fully to the marriage. You just did this three days ago and although you sound and appear to have really gotten it...PLEASE understand that you are likely BOTH still quite foggy (lol---the fog is not a doorway...dissipation is a process)

Don't give up. The big step you two took the other night will be followed by other big steps. You may think you're on the road to recovery today but several months from now you'll laugh at how niave you BOTH were. W2S is a backet of emotions. The stress that comes through is overwhelming. He just told SS that the he wanted a divorce....his LOVEBANK is empty...but he's willing, like his wife is to try. But you both are near to ground zero. Time to buck it up. You both NEED to be here posting but I don't suggest you guys share on each others threads. This place is great for one perspective advice. One to one. My wife and I both post here but if you research you'll see I don't think I ever requested advice. She wouldn't have likely bloomed that way. I allowed my wife to post while I read and gave advice to others. Getting her on the recovery train was much more beneficial to us than listening to me complain about what happened. Nobody can ever change that...but you and she CAN change your future. Your mileage may vary...I just don't want to see you two arguing about what each other posted about the other. The details matter little but some of the couples before you got bogged down arguing about the historical facts.

For us, talking about adultery and marriage...unabashedly...was our favorite and pretty much sole pastime. We have a sense of togetherness in this community and it is what we do often as our recreational companionship.

Ok...I've thrown some stuff out there. Let me know what sticks or what specific things you'd like to discuss more. One subject/question at a time.

Mr. Wondering

ML-
Oh Heaven's no! I have this really strange feeling that she suspected, though, and really could care less. They have (or so he said) a very strange relationship. She used to be with an extremely abusive man who ended up in jail after she woke up with him standing over her with a knife. So, I think b/c OM was so good with her son, who had been through so much abuse in his life, she was just like- whatever. I told DH that she may not even care when I (or he) tell her. Then again, she may flip out...I am not sure which. I am prepared for either, though.

BK-I have not seen him since 1/07. I have not spoken to him since early 5/07.

Melody,

Yes. I can see where there could be possible contact with someone other than the OM's wife if S_S were to make the call.


SS,

That was very admirable of you to offer to make the call to the OM's wife.

It is also very admirable of you to take your part of the blame.

And I agree that you should start your own thread. It can get a little hairy if H & W are posting on the same thread.

I have a lot of hope for the two of you. Please read as many of Dr. Harley's "articles" and books as you can. You'll also get a lot of insight by just reading the threads.

Edited to add: Thanks Melody for taking the time to give me that excellent advice.

SS,

What's your plan????


Dr. Harley and I discussed one day at his seminar the importance of planning. Affairs don't just happen. There preceeded by series of choices which could have been avoided with a solid plan.

One plan for you guys to discuss is what to do if OM calls you, emails you, sends you a letter, seeks you out and bumps into you.

Do you...run away. Call your husband immediately. Forward the email to him unread. Open the email together.

You see...OM could try to run you down in town or at the grocery store. Being polite is just too much for your husband to handle. If you tell him "well what was I to do...we only spoke for maybe a minute and then I excused myself", he won't believe you and I wouldn't blame him. Instead, if you run away and call your husband immediately and in a panic and indicate you didn't say ONE WORD to the guy. That is more believable.

Make a plan. Transparency is YOUR OBLIGATION SS. Mrs. W and I are counting on you.

Mr. Wondering

Boy, I hope the OM's wife could care less because if it were me and my H brought me to meet the OW unknowingly.....I would be sooooooo po'd. I think what the OM did with that is pathetic. As if the affair wasn't disrepectful enough. Hmmmph.

Gotch Mr. W. And thank you to all who have posted. Thanks to MissM who stared the thread to "encourage" people to read his story.

My story is linked in my sig line. I actually posted on the recovery board, but got little feedback since it's much more active on the GQ board.

I will stay off his posts if you think it's best. Had some Qs come my way here, and wanted to answer them, but I will start a new thread soon and let him do his thang!

We are forever in your debt MBers!!

Hey S_S and W2S!

W2S - I hear what you're saying and I blamed all of Mrs. RIF's OM... It hurts to even think that our lovely wives could cut us so deeply and it's natural to want to blame the OM... gives us an easy target to focus on.

S_S is 100% responsible for breaking her M vows to YOU... the OM didn't break YOUR M vows... He broke them with his W.

Think about this, then start journaling your feelings... Re-read my earlier post and learn to control your rage and anger. Remember, it's natural for you to be angry... it's healthy for you to be angry... just make sure that you work through your anger in a way that is safe for S_S...

Semper Fi,

RIF

Just letting both of you know that I did finish reading your posts...Too tired tonight to post much of anything helpful...I'll be around sometime tomorrow afternoon or evening! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

Wow,

I'm sorry but I simply do not have the time to read something that long right now, getting ready to leave for work.

Will try to check it out later... but I will be competing for computer time with my teen daughter then so can't promise.

Did I mention that I suffer from OCD, I tend to be entirely to over analytical and I have an attention for detail that drives me nuts sometimes? So do I win the award for longest post in MB history?

Just typing all this out was in itself very therapeutic to me. Remember, I have dealt with this all on my own for over 16 months and I thought that most of it was pertinent information to where my wife and I are in our recovery attempts. I promise I will keep all my future posts to the topic at hand. First, I want to say that I have actually been lurking here since April. I’ve pretty much read all of your individual stories and I can’t tell you how many times this site has saved me from giving up.

Now to my responses:

BigKahuna,
Wise guy eh? (My wife was right it did make me giggle. No offense taken)

RIF,
I am aware that this was 100% my wife’s choice, but we were both 50% responsible for the state of our marriage that allowed it to happen. Much of my anger issues with om is that he knew that this was greatly affecting our marriage and he could have done the right thing and finished the cd so my wife could leave the studio. Instead he choose to use my wife’s attachment to him and the cd to con her out of money and pain pills and anything else that would benefit him. Plus having the nerve to come into my home on our anniversary no less just fuels the absolute hatred I have for him. Believe me, if my wife and I did run into him somewhere he couldn't run away fast enough.

You’re right about the putting the cd’s away. It would probably really help to not run across these accidental triggers. I can tell you that there are copies of it all over the house. I’ll have to bring this up with SS later today.

MrWondering,
I’m still mulling over the exposure to om’s wife. It really would serve no purpose other than revenge. My wife and I lead a very different lifestyle than most people. We have always done everything together. My wife’s cd recording was actually the first time in our entire marriage that either of us had done a recreational activity without the other. It really wasn’t by choice either. I would have loved to have been able to go to the studio with my wife even if just to get out of the house for a few hours, but because of babysitting issues it just wasn’t possible.

I have no fear of SS trying to contact him as since the fog has lifted she has come to despise him almost as much as me. I don’t fear om trying to contact her either because I have long since realized the true nature of what happened. This whole thing was just fine and dandy with him as long as my wife was willing to lead a double life fulfilling his sick little fantasies in the studio. Once he realized that my wife couldn’t play the emotionless little game he was playing and that if it continued it was about to start affecting his life he cut her off. My wife would like to say that they mutually agreed to give up the PA because she choose to come back to our marriage, but I don’t think that is what happened. I believe that what really took place is that she was more than willing to continue on with the A and would have gone through with their planned night together but he rejected her. He wasn’t willing to risk his life and family for this, where my wife still was willing to take the risks. Who knows how much uglier this could have gotten if he was willing to take the same risks as SS. She may be choosing me and our family now, but back then she wasn’t. Besides, I carry my wife’s as you put it “affairular phone” now so wouldn’t he be surprised when I answered.

Here’s another option I’m considering. I’m thinking of just emailing him directly and finally telling him exactly what a miserable pos he is and how lucky he has been. Also, he does still owe me $650 for the money he conned my wife out of. She wasn’t working at the time so it wasn’t her money she gave him it was mine. Just putting the fear in him that any day I could wake up and decide not to let him off “scott free” and put him through the same misery he has caused me would make me feel better about the situation. The other thing is that would eliminate the possibility of an actual confrontation taking place. I do worry that if I expose this to his wife he would be just stupid enough to show up at our house and with me gone at work all evening I don’t want to do anything that would put my family in jeopardy. The other thing is that if a confrontation did take place I don’t know that I could control my hatred for him and I would hate to end up in jail for beating the living crap out of him. Then my wife wouldn’t have the money to bail me out jail. What do you think about this idea?

Thanks to all who have replied! I’ll get to the rest of my the responses in a little while.

p.s. I’ll summarize my first post as soon as I can.

Dang it, I had a good post but it timed out.

Expose to OM's wife - she deserves to know the truth about her husband. She has the right to the facts to make informed decisions about her life and future. Don't you wish someone had told you last August?

OM doesn't owe you $650 - your FWW does. She's the one who took the money and spent it. That's just how I see it.

W2S,

Informing OMW isn't about revenge...it's about your marriage, how you will begin treating your rebuilt marriage. Do you want to have an intimate, honest relationship? Where resentment can not be created and stockpiled because of holding yourself to sharing your truth consistently?

Then your new choice is to live from the truth. Which means you inform and let go the outcome. You begin to act from your code (boundaries you hold yourself to) and then you'll be able to enforce this boundary and your marital boundaries.

When you don't do this...then S_S can say, "I didn't share that with you because it felt vengeful." You have been experiencing the dire consequences of living reactively from your "feelings" and your FWW acting on her "feelings." Time for a new drum to follow. Stick to acting from your beliefs and your feelings will follow.

I'm not saying anything I didn't experience. No judgment...my heart hurts mightily for you, W2S...so many parts of your story zinged me...on behalf of my BH during my own A. Really brought it fresh to me again. Thank you.

Please choose to expose...it won't hurt you as much as the extraction; you can do it together. You're on the healthy tract to replace memories with new ones...your expectations, though, are kicking your own butt...doubling your pain, in my POV. Sharing your triggers is awesome...informing S_S when they are happening, owning them, checking up on her in front of her...sharing transparency will help her to rebuild your trust to a reasonable, instead of a blind level.

What I hear you realizing is that you weren't really connecting with her for a long time...more about the business, the kids...not that partnering seems you now understand is marital intimacy. Where you can hear her stuff (thoughts/feelings/beliefs/perceptions) as hers...and you know and share yours...side by side...not one curing, controlling or causing the other.

And that you know this is a process...a long one. We didn't get here in a single moment and we won't fix it in one...great awareness. Stay in there with it.

Are you guys now following Harley's guidelines with the 15-hours of UA per week? I understand your current money limitation...MC, though, is much cheaper than a divorce. Would it be possible to sell your home and downsize? Sell one of the cars? Deal head-on with the consequences of the A now that you both realize your highest priority really is your marriage?

I know I read all the care you were giving to your wife the last ten years...I heard your perspective. I also heard a part of it which was earning her love, fidelity, blind trust. One of the realizations I had from my WH's A was how much I secretly banked on being protected from such a thing through my emotional debt ratio with him...earning love and punishment...not loving from choice. Really helped to break apart this cycle for me.

That's your words through my filter...hearing "I did all of this and she still did what I most feared." We each have our part...and your OCD may also attest to this...if I'm aware enough, careful enough, analytical enough...if I am ENOUGH, then others won't make choices which hurt me.

Your choice to not seek help through others...the not reaching out, connecting...oddly enough as your business connected constantly...to go it alone. My BH did that, also. Struggled for a long time in the same way you did...you're not alone. He was taught not to ask or tell...please consider MB and your thread a way to balance that within yourself and your marriage.

So I don't pray for your amnesia...for your personal and marital healing...a marriage which thrives, knows and shares each partner's stuff...speaks each other's love languages...all from choice to love, without assumptions, self-deception...those things I believe we all experience from choosing not to act O&H, not to communicate...to listen and hear our truth separated from the truth...

Your dream isn't done...your dreams remain possibilities...in ways you may not imagine now...stay present, right now...choose to believe you will heal, choose faith and hope...because of who you are, 'k?

You can do this. Don't do this alone...get books from the library...acknowledge your own courage, stay on MB...thank yourself for your choices...and mind your own boundaries, your own code...do not choose to do or say that which you will resent.

Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die (Whodat said it changing Harold Kraus' quote). Know you control this corrosiveness.

LA

WOW! I READ IT ALL!! Do I get a prize of some sort? :P

W2S, in many respect your story is alot like mine, regarding the abuse my WW put me through while she was engaged in her A and the time from my initial suspicions to confirmation of the A to her confessing etc. Things did not start turning around for us until I had reached the same point you had, I was ready for divorce, ANYTHING other than what was going on.

It is good that you are both here, it is good that your W is remorseful and is wanting to work towards recovery, that is going to make a world of differnce.

This is all going to take some time. Your emotions are completely understandable. All the memories associated with her actions and events in your life, that's normal too. My W and I have yet to come to a "trigger anniversary", but they are coming on the near horizon, and I am not looking forward to them.

Have you two filled out the EN's surveys and LoveBusters Questionairres? My W and I found both of those extremely helpful. We have read many of the books you see mentioned on this site together and we talk about them. We are soon to begin couples and individual counseling.

In regards to her music: she should be willing to put this on the backburner for a while. It is not your fault that she took her opportunity to persue music again and squandered it in betrayal. Until such a time as you are BOTH comfortable with it, it goes away. I suspect it won't be forever, but it needs to be a JOINT AGREEMENT when and if her music career is resumed. You do know, however, that it was not the music that caused this, nor was it the OM. As your W begins to take responsibility for her actions and displays transparency, openness, and honesty, you will probably quickly see what makes sense and what doesn't in regards to her career choices.

As to the CD: burn it. You'll never be able to hear those songs without thinking about her A. She shouldn't even WANT you to hear those songs, much less promote them for or with her. Again, this isn't your fault, this is a direct result of her behavior and any resentment she feels should be directed at herself for turning something that could have been such a pleasure for both of you into something so miserable. This is HER owning the consequences of HER choices.

You've found the right place, there is hope. Time will heal many wounds, but your W needs to really commit to recovery and take steps to HELP you get through this.

You need to focus on the things that were wrong in your M before the A and take steps to meet her needs, but you do not have to shoulder or deflect any of the blame for the A itself. That was HER choice. Yes, OM was a pos predator, but it takes two to tango, and you only care about one of those two.

And yes, YOU W2S should call OMW. She deserves to know, whether she cares or not is not your problem or of any concern to either of you.

Good luck, this site and the MB program can be a great resource for both of you.

W2S...

You've been given tons of great advice so far, I am going to continue to beat the YOU MUST TELL THE OMW drum...I take a hard line on that, and so do many others here...Dr. Harley says the other BS must always be told...As others have said, wouldn't you have wanted to be told? She absolutely deserves to know the truth about her life and not telling her is CRUEL...She has the right to make informed decisions about her life, and you hold pertinent information that if kept from her will cause her even more harm...She is the other victim of your wife and OM...You do NOT help the infidels keep their dirty little secret! Doing so makes you a party to OMW's victimization...Affairs thrive in secrecy and crumble in the light...Drive the last nail into the coffin of this affair and tell OMW...

Further, telling OM's wife DOES help YOUR marriage...It offers it additional protection against the affair resuming...Now I know that you naively believe that your wife is no longer susceptible to OM, but that is wrongheaded thinking I can assure you...Both you and S_S must realize this vunerablity and act accordingly...Dr. Harley explains that where there was once a flame, one most definitely CAN be reingnited...No matter how much you think that isn't true, it IS...Your wife will be forever vunerable to OM, just like an alcoholic remains forever vunerable to alcohol...I understand that really sucks to accept, but not accepting it will be your peril...It is one of the reasons that NC for life MUST be adhered to...

So W2S, knowing all this, when will you be exposing to OMW?

Mrs. W

W2S......

My husband cheated on me while we were dating and right before we were married, and several other times throughout our marriage.

I CANNOT tell you how much resentment I still harbor for the people who aware that this was happening and COULD HAVE TOLD ME.

If I had been told, I wouldn't have just spent the last 16 years of my life in a miserable relationship that was affected by his infidelity, yet I was completely unaware of what the problems were. I stayed because of my religion.

Now, I don't know which way I'm headed. There's so much to forgive.

Please, please tell the OMW's. Give her the CHOICE to make informed decisions about her life. This is huge.

W2S just left for work, and I know I promised to stay off his thread, but we spoke about this just b4 he went to work a few minutes ago and we both wanted to address it.

We are both scared for our family. This man is a very bad person, and nearly all of his friends are felons. One had just gotten out of jail when I was at the studio. I broke NC last spring to threaten him that H was seething and was gunning for him, and that he had better finish and send the CD PRONTO. He said "if H tells her and I lose everything, I won't be in a good place. If I have nothing to lose, I will be very dangerous." I took it as a direct threat, immediately admitted to H that I had broken NC to threaten OM, and what the pos had said. This (and absolutely nothing else) is why we are scared. Him and his buddies are very scarey people, and at the very least, his buddies have no connection with us, and couldn't care less if they hurt me or H or our kids. This is the TRUTH.

Noone has addressed this part of the issue...should she know-absolutely, and I have even offered to tell her. But honestly, guys, I am really scared of what he will do to retaliate. She very possibly may forgive him and in that scenario, I wouldn't be fearful. But if she kicks him out, he will be like a cornered wild animal, and out for revenge.

And yes I am well aware that if wasn't such an idiot and let the guy know where we live, we could/would have exposed him months ago!

I understand your fear and concerns. However, you knew what kind of a man you were getting involved with when you took those risks.

I suggest going straight to the courthouse and getting a restraining order.

I personally don't think it's fair to save your future and let the OM'S wife future get trashed and she didn't even have a choice like you did.

I'm sorry. I know that's harsh. It's one of the consequences.

Maybe you two can pack your stuff and move out a dodge. Start over. People do it all the time.

I think there has been about 1 case here of a OM taking revenge. It won't happen.