At least a couple of extremely valuable "old-timers" have been driven off the board because of their perceptions of uncaring, intolerant and/or cruel comments. I don't really think there are any here, outside of the "trolls", who intend this perception. However, there are several who couch their excuses for such interpretation in such that they only "tell it like it is", are "blunt", "outspokenly honest", "not gonna be PC" and so on. Unfortunately, those are just that, excuses.

Too many people are trying to be "like Mel"....and, they are failing miserably. I've been through differences of opinion with the irresistable force known as MelodyLane(many, many moons ago), but no matter whether we agreed or disagreed, she has always had my utmost respect.

The difference between Mel and the other, self-proclaimed "truth-talkers" here is the same as the difference between having a gallbladder removed with a small scalpel doing laparoscopic incisions, and having it removed with a professional's chain saw and a crowbar.

It seems to be a case of egos grown too large. It is impossible for everyone to agree on everything, but one can disagree with another without trying to pound one's opponent into the ground. That's where "2x4"s come in...There's a time and a place for the use of the lumber, but there's also a method. Please learn what these are before arming oneself. Also, discover and remember the difference between a 2x4 and an 8-pound sledgehammer.

Anyway, the key is to learn to be blunt, honest and well-intended, but not mean, clumsy and/or callous....

I doubt this message will sink in as my "post count" is so low. My opinion has always been the higher post counts can mean any one of three things: 1) active, productive poster; 2) egotism in action; or 3) lack of outside activities. IMHO, of course.

HP:

Thank you.

-ol' 2long

It sunk in with me.

I read that anytime we are in a discussion and end up having the need to be "right", our ego has taken over and spirituality has left the building.

Thank you for the very well timed reminder. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

HP,

Hear ya' big time and thanks for the reminder. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> It is truly appreciated.

I went back and have been reading older threads from years ago and when the board had discussions, disagreements and even outright debates or even trolls..... the board as a whole may have not agreed 100% with each others posts but they kept the respect.

I failed to see that here and that hurt a lot.

Thank you sooo much for trying to get us back in focus. I am starting to see posters helping again. I hope we will handle these types of situations better next time.

Part of moving forward, I guess <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Mahalo,
L.

I don't look so much at post count as I do reg date. Anyone who's been here as long as you have, gets my attention.

i was thinking this when i read that noobs shouldn't post advise thread

it's not just "old timers" leaving the board from callous remarks IMO... the new people are much more likely to stop coming after being thwacked in the mouth w a 2x4

i don't think anybody has a right to "tell it like it is" in an anonymous forum where you are basing all your information on a small snapshot or text about a person's life

Thank you.... I am a noobie that actually RESIGNED myself to lurking not so long ago because of some 2x4 methods I thought weren't so nice and were a little uncalled for after ONE post of mine... I thought the judgement was a little quick to come without asking any more questions of me.... and a little harsh (see my thread "new... first post" (I have no clue how to do the cool little link thing yet). I got my feathers a little ruffled... and after trying to explain myself (and getting a little defensive, I will admit), I actually decided I was just going to lurk here (and reading and reading DOES really help, even if you aren't posting! I realize now what a text book WS I was...and what I was doing my my poor H).

Anyways, I was looking for encouragment... and got the exact opposite. I truthfully decided I just wouldn't post anymore, I would just get my 'help' by reading here... until actually another noobie posted some encouragement for me.... not advice per se, but encouragement... and THAT was enough to bring me out of lurking again and change my mind.

I would proceed VERY VERY cautiously when thwacking noobies... it was almost enough to scare me away... I don't want to to feel like I have to defend myself from people that think they know the solution and know everything about my situation and whether or not it can be saved from one lousy post!

I think the best line is not thwacking right away... but questions, questions, questions. If you think from one post by a noobie that they are headed down the wrong path, ASK QUESTIONS-- and build up respect with that person, then 'tell them the truth', with compassion. Don't assume and THWACK. That's not helping. Trust me. I am more likely to get defensive if someone Thwacks that I feel hasn't taken the time to get to know my situation properly and judges me off of one post than if someone asks questions and guides.. .and then if I still truly need it, THEN whacks. Don't whack a noobie off of one post! You almost scared me away, and I'm sure I'm not the only one!

RIM

Dwayne, I do appreciate your respect and have always felt the same way about you. We have known each other for a long time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> We have disagreed on things but I wouldn't change a thing about you for a million bucks. And I mean that sincerely.
 
I think there are other egos at play here that are causing as much, if not more damage than the ones you cite. And those are the folks who believe they are entitled to dictate posting styles. People's posting styles are a reflection of their personality, so telling someone the TONE they should use is the equivalent of dictating personality, IMO. It is highly insulting. It is the height of disrespect and very ironic coming from folks who claim to value respect. To them it is ok to insult a board member in this manner, but God forbid we insult a troll or some instigator.
 
If they had their way, I would have been run out of town on a rail years ago. They stalk my every word and report me to the mods often to try and get me kicked off. If you look back over the past years, they cause much MORE dissension and hard feelings than anyone else, IMO. Trying to control others ALWAYS has that effect, AND THEY KNOW THIS BUT THEY DON'T CARE. They continue to try over and over knowing the disruption it causes to the board. THEY DON'T CARE.
 
There is nothing "respectful" about demanding that a board member use nice words to address some troublemaking crapwit who is here for the sole purpose of trolling. What a galling idea. Board members have been thrown under the bus for not using nice enough words to trolls and instigators who were here to cause harm. That is just nuts, IMO. [just me, but I prefer we throw the troll under the bus instead of the board member <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />]
 
And then they complain about "dissension" on the board. HUH? That is like the arsonist complaining that the temperature is too hot with matches and gasoline in his hand. Ugh... It really makes me sick in my heart. I honestly come here to help people, and this distracting egotistical nonsense just tears me apart inside. I SEE what they are doing. CLEARLY. I see the damage they cause.
 
There are many people here whose posting styles I would never choose. But posting styles of other members is not my business. I respect that people have their own personalities. If it is unacceptable, then it is the domain of MODS. And who am I to tell others how they should post anyway?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I CAN ONLY SET THE STANDARD FOR MYSELF, NOT OTHERS.
 
I don't want to belong to a forum of little ROBOTS who post just like me! I value and treasure the DIFFERENCES I see in other people, so why would I ever want to shut them down and make them act like me??
 
I understand, after having been in AA for years, that trying to control others is an exercise in futility and frustration. Many here have experienced this first hand. Not to mention that it is the height of DISRESPECT to tell others how they should post. Dwayne, wouldn't that piss you off if I told you that your posting was "too soft" or "too harsh?" You would tell me to go to he11! And rightfully so!
 

So, I do see a problem alright. But I see mostly the destruction wreaked by self appointed behavior cops who won't let the MODS do their jobs or respect the board owner's prerogative to moderate in the manner they CHOOSE. It has been implied that the board owners "don't know" what is going on here. That is an ASSUMPTION that I would not bet a nickel on. Steve Harley once told me he reads here DAILY.

AMEN!

*****************EDIT***************

Hi Dwayne,

As an oldtimer (and by my registration date, I've been here longer than all of you combined...), many things have changed here. None for the better. There is a lack of respect. There is a lack of understanding. What's more concerning, some of the "experts" here truly misunderstand the meaning and intent of the MB materials (or these materials have so fundamentally changed since I counseled with the Harleys).

The Harley's never used 2x4s on anyone. EVER. They're behavioral-based counselors who will help a WS to see the truth in their 'situation'. It's rare that anyone can beat sense into anyone else. It's more likely that these people will recognize sense when led gently and firmly to the truth.

I've long since left these boards because I don't recognize what's being 'preached' here. I don't see a whole lot of help. Or success. If you look back 5+ years ago, I think you saw a lot more of that. The current state of these boards aren't helping marriages recover. That's a shame, and not something I would think the Harley's are happy about.

RIM,

I am truly sorry for your 'bad' experience. You just gave a 'new' acronym to describes how many have been feeling.

I agree we shouldn't "thwack'! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for keeping it simple. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

You know, this is all very disrespectful of the moderators and of SH who oversee this board. Bottom line is, if you don't like the way that SH, the mods or MB run this board...why are you here...to complain?

*******************EDIT*****************

************EDIT********attempt to remake this board into a heavily moderated police state that suits your personal dictates. Folks are sick of your attempts to pour gasoline on the fire when others are trying to stop trolls and dissenters.

You are the arsonist with the matches in his hand who complains about fire. Trying to control others always causes dissent. And you have used this latest controversy to capitalize on your long held desire to have the board moderated in a way that suits you. You know this causes trouble, yet you continue. And continue and continue and continue and continue....

I suspect that this board will never ever be the tightly controlled politically correct, Orwellian police state over which you moderate ***EDIT****. Where even personal negative remarks are EDITED because they are 'disrespectful judgments." **********EDIT*******

I strongly suspect if the Harleys wanted their board to be **EDIT*** they would moderate it as such. But please note that they don't.

Like I said yesterday, it is the height of bad manners to come on someones board and endlessly complain and tell them how to run it. That is the equivalent of going to someone's home as an invited guest and telling them how to keep house. *********EDIT*****

*******************EDIT*****************

****EDIT**********

bel·lows (b&#283;l'&#333;z, -&#601;z) Pronunciation Key
pl.n. (used with a sing. or pl. verb)

1. An apparatus for producing a strong current of air, as for sounding a pipe organ or increasing the draft to a fire, consisting of a flexible, valved air chamber that is contracted and expanded by pumping to force the air through a nozzle.

2. Something, such as the pleated windbag of an accordion, that resembles this apparatus.

Not the world, but the Harley's BOARD. You want to tell the Harleys how to run their board because you want it moderated to your personal dictates and will stir up as much dissent as possible, apparently, to achieve that goal.

Is it ok if I go over to ***********tell them how their board should be run? Maybe run it Texas style? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

It's amazing... I only have a 1/2 dozen or so posters on ignore, yet when I read here these days, approx 50% of the entries are blocked... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />