I wish I didn't have to work on a take-home test for a masters course or I would take more time here.<P>My opinion? I think she is involved with this man. Sexually? I would say yes but I could be wrong. Of course she is not going to tell the truth, it is not something you want to tell.. I think she is in a real dilemna. She has a husband(you) that she probably loves, and she has this man who has become her best friend and possibly her lover. She knows she has to give him up, after all......how would the two of them survive? Neither of them have a job, they need their support systems to survive. I think she is probably making lists in her head about what he has to offer and what you have to offer and there is no solution. Hence, the quietness, the deception, the depression, I guarantee you she is not having much fun.<P>However, I agree 100% that you need to know the truth. You don't need to know every little detail, that would probably be too painful anyway. But you need to know what this man means to her. In my opinion she should probably never see him again. Ouch, that one hurts, but what is the alternative? Out of respect for you and for her family, she needs to end her relationship with him.<P>Do I think men and women can be friends? Sure, but not like this. This is like BEST FRIENDS. You can be friends or I guess I mean "friendly" with the guy who fixes your car or who is sells you insurance and you can be friends with your girlfriends husband when you are all out together to see a movie or go for dinner. I enjoy discussions about theology with one of my girlfriend's husbands, but we only talk when we are together as couples. So, NO, you can not be friends with a man that you talk to every day for two or three hours and who lives across the street(unless he is gay-no affront meant to gays).<BR>Don't know if this helps but I have been there and done that and have lots to say on the subject.

Bonny,<P>Thanks for your perspective. So where in the hell am I on this thing? Let's go through the facts of all the input from everyone which I agree with.<P>1. There is some emotional/sexual attachement to Mr. Mom. This is a given. I have done the following: Gotten pissed off when I got the phone records, confronted her about them and told her falt out I did not believe her. Confronted him told him to back off or I was going to his wife (by the way he said she was his best friend). Told my wife I did not think that they should be alone together at the park shopping etc (this has not changed). None of this stuff worked. All met with denials that this was a friendship and had nothing to do with our problems in the past which have been building for the last two years (she is probably right but using this as an excuse).<P>2. For the last 8 months (with the exception of the phone record blow up) I have been very nice. Shall we say almost to a fault. Making sure all her needs are met with a few cases of love busting in between. Nothing has really changed expect for a few good weeks and days here. Still not really interested in sex ( says emotional connection is not there).<P>3. My wife has moments of trying to make this work and I think she really does want to for a whole bunch of reasons. One I am sure is that OM does not have a gig. But she is somewhere in limbo land of not really being "with me". Which I am sure many people can realte too.<P>4. Let's make sure everyone knows her point. She says that over the last two years we have lost respect for one another. There have been things that we have both done that have hurt us both i.e. not paying enough attention all the basic love busting stuff. All stuff I would have to agree with. This has come to a head for her in the last 10 months, which is also ritht around the time that Mr. Mom and her had began their strong friendship.<P>5. Moving is not an option. Been brought up and falls on deaf ears. She has other good friends in the area that has made her resist.<P>6. Last fact is nothing that I do to either be nice to get her to trust me or push the issue has worked. I am now more quiet and trying to give her the space she needs. Again she is NOT Nasty which would be totally against her nature. She is just distant.<P>So what the heck is the plan. Nothing I have done works. The facts are here and I think we all agree unless someone can tell me something different. There is a connection to OM. <P>So all us bright folk what is the solution to the problem. Everyone says time but that can work againist us. Who has the magic pill that can help. Thanks to all this has been a great place to listen to other peoples perspectives and learn a ton. Gotta get back to work this is addictive

Zip --<P>My W wanted me to enjoy couples type stuff with her "best friend" and OM/H, but they never really interested me. Although OM and I share related professional backgroups, I've never really had an interest in them as a couple. We've been civil when together (school events, some dinners and parties), just not my type. The attempts to be with them as a couple came from my wife.<P>It appears that my W and her "best friend" are still buddies. Obviously, my confrontation of OM/her husband mus have put some tension into the relationship. Specifics, though, I don't know.<P>I would like my W to break off contact with both, but she seems unwilling -- at least with her "best friend". Our kids no longer go to the same schools, but W wants to remain in contact with her network of friends. <P>Last time she went over to their house with kids, and the OM was there. My W told me -- it didn't make me feel any better -- and said she went over at that time because OM was supposed to be away at work.<P>Question: Where did the attempts to include your neighbors come from, you or your W? When you W talks with OM's W, is it civil, sincere, honest, or does it seem like she's hiding something?<P>Re: strong hunches -- that's where I am. As obvious as the material that I've discovered is, I must be in some denial. I'm certain that something must have been/is going on, yet I guess I still don't want to believe it. I guess I hold out hope that she IS telling me the truth. But, how can I be so terribly wrong??<P>Got to get back to work. Good luck, and I'll check in to this thread later.

OOOps... Just got your last post, which I had not read before I sent mine. Sorry.<P>This is scary, since the parallels between our two situations are almost identical. I'm looking forward to seeing some responses, particulally from Bonny since I think she probably has nailed it for both of us.<P>Later...

My wife is very nice to OM's wife. They don't talk as much as they used to but they still do talk. Not sure I understand the neighbor thing you asked. This is almost like an alcoholic or drug addict. They are always in denial and there is only two ways to bring them out. Get them to trust you and that can take a ton of time and the damage may already be done. Or tough love which is vey painful for all involved and it also means that you must be 100% behind what you think. Because that addict will try and change your mind and make you see it their way. My wife never really answers questions she just gets defensive.<P>Her point of view is that she has been hurt by me and it is only about US no one else.

Talked to Harley just now on his Radio show. Good guy. Told me to confront OM's wife says there is little fallout from that. Says that she is addicated to the OM and must break the cycle. Fill her needs etc. All stuff that I have been trying to do. This addiction stuff is hard stuff.

Dear Zip,<BR>I agree that you ought to talk to Mr. Mom's wife about your suspicions. Be really nice, gentle with her. After all, you have both of your families best interests at heart and that includes some very wonderful children. If she has supspcions then at least the two of you are "on to" the two of them. This should hopefully accomplish the first big step which is to stop any intimate interaction between the two of them. You can not have a real marriage until there is not a third party. A triangle always creates a wedge. <BR>That would be a step in the right direction which is to get your wife back. However, that is what is going to take some time. <BR>Hey Zip, could you start a new thread, this one is getting long!!

Hi Zip,<P>I've been following along on this (very lengthy) thread, and didn't think I had very much to add up to now. But I'm gonna chime in...<P>It's obvious to me (as to everyone else and you) that your wife is having an affair. If not sexual then at least emotional. OK, we're all agreed on that. This whole thing where your wife says that it's only a "friendship" and you are just imagining things is alot of hooey! And even if they are "just friends"? That shouldn't matter. It's obviously very upsetting to you that she and he are so close. Who's more important? A "friend" or her husband? <P>It goes back to your question - "Can a male and female be friends?" Not too long ago, I would've answered HELL YES! Why not? But I've changed my tune. It's just not possible for people of the opposite sex to get too close without one or the other becoming interested romantically. I've seen it as a pattern in my life that I've denied for a long time.<P>I know you are for the most part trying like hell to fulfill your wife's emotional needs, but I'll tell ya, while she's addicted to the OM, it don't mean a hill of beans. She must admit to the affair and give up the OM. Which will lead to terrible withdrawal on her part. I have no idea how you're gonna make her see that or even make her agree that she's in an affair. She's the one who has to see that on her own. Not that you should STOP meeting her needs. Actually, it's all the more important that you CONTINUE to do that. But you just have to recognize that you won't get any results for quite a long time.<P>I agree with much of what Bonny had to say. Your wife is exhibiting the classic behavior of a betrayer. The depression is because she can't make a decision on what to do. She's basically worked herself into a corner and she can't get out. On the one hand, she has a loving husband who fulfills some of her needs, on the other hand she's got the OM who she's terribly addicted to and can't imagine giving up. It's very horrible. I know, cuz I've been through that. It's awful. And the thing that's even worse in your wife's case is that she's holding everything in. The pressure must be enormous!<P>Sure, you two were having problems before, but that is not the cause of your wife's depression. It's the double-life and the lying and the indecision that's making her depressed.<P>You want to know what to do about it, and you want to have a game plan... All I can offer is the following:<P>1) Continue to meet her emotional needs even though it seems to have no effect. Don't do it to get response from her. Do it because it's what you must do.<P>2) Do not threaten, disrepect, have angry outbursts, etc. All that basic love-busting stuff. Also, don't keep bringing your suspicions up all the time. She's aware that you think she's having an affair. What I would suggest is turning it into a "I feel such-and-such when you do so-and-so" kind of thing. "I feel terrible when you spend so much time with OM, even if it is just in a friendship capacity." Hopefully that's non-threatening, and it gives her the benefit of the doubt (even though there is not much doubt left).<P>3) Yes, maybe you should talk to the OM's wife. What's the worst that will happen? Maybe the OM will see that he may lose his wife, and decide on his own that he cannot see your wife anymore.<P>take care and hope I could help just the slightest bit.<P>--andy