I can sure use some advice on this. I have been married for 7 years and have two children age 4 and 2. I thought for most of our marriage things where going along well. I have a great job and my wife stays at home with the kids. At the beggining of this year my wife began to become very distant. I begin to question her and in Feb she told me that she was not real happy with the way things have been going between us.<P>She said the usual in that I did not pay attention, crticized her, and did not make her feel like an equal. Much of this was probably true and it gave me cause to take a hard look at myself.<P>I picked up a bunch of books and tried to become a better husband and father to our family. But this did not seem to help. Through the spring she became more and more distant even somewhat nasty. We I contiued to ask her what was wrong she told me that she had a big wall up and it was hard for it to come down. I tried to understand and tried to be even better while also trying to give her space.<P>During the beginning of the summer I noticed that she seemed to have developed a strong friendship with a stay at home dad across the street. They where in play group together and since the kids where the same age they seemed to hang around a lot together. In July of I pulled some phone records and found that she had been spending in excess of 2 to 3 hours most days when I was at work talking with him on the phone. Some conversations where for over two hours stright mind you we have children 4 and 2. I have never been able to get her attention for that long.<P>When I asked her about them she said that it was a friendship and that she has had a lot of male friends in the past. I showed her the article by Dr. Harley about oppisite sex friends and she said that is does not apply to her. Also during the summer we stopped having sex for about 4 months.<P>For the first month I decided not to pressure here about it because I wanted to be more understanding about things. Then after the 2 nd month I asked her about it and she said that she needed to be emotionally connected with me. <P>In June we began to go to counseling to work through the "issues". We did begin to talk a lot about things though nothing really seemed to get resolved. In August of this year I got a call from a distant relative that told me one of his wife's friends told him that she thought my wife was having an affair with "Mr Mom" (this lady was in the same preschool with Mr Mom's kid and mine daughter).<P>I pressed him to ask this person if they saw this person saw something. He went back to her and she said no but that it seemed like they where really close. I found it strange that someone would make that strong of a comment. Well that forced me to pull phone records from the beginning of the year. Well the pattern was the same phone calls whenever I was not around and usually her first call of the day. An average of two hours with just her outbound calls (I don't know how many calls he may have placed). I confronted her again and again much denial. I really pressed her and she told me that I would never let this go and our problems where about us and not her friendship with him.<P>I then confronted him and told him that I did not like what he was doing. He said that they where just good friends and that he just enjoyed the conversation. I told him that if it continued he and I would have it out and I would go to his wife. This was in August.<P>We have continued the consuling sessions together and seperate. The big issue is that nothing seems to be getting resolved. I am trying to be better but it does not seem to work. My wife says that she still loves me but has a wall built up and it is keeping distance between us. Does not trust me and finds it hard to talk right now. When we do talk nothing seems to get well. Both of us seem to be stuck.<P>She is pertty convincing in telling me that there was nothing there with her friend. Keep in mind she never talked to any of her other friends for more the 10 minutes. Sex is forced and she is really not into it (though this has been a pattern for awhile).<P>I need to understand how to become unstuck. How much of her friendship is affecting our relationship. She has calmed down the phone conversations. But they still see each other all the time. She is not a bad person and has become nicer to me. Not like the wife I knew though in being a real partner. So how much is the past and how much might be her friendship. Many women I have talked with find it highly unusal that she could be talking that long to someone on the phone and not develop a strong tie. Thoughts?

If you learn nothing else here, the one thing that you will remember for the rest of your life is this:<P>TRUST YOUR INTUITION. IF YOU THINK SOMETHING IS HAPPENING, IT PROBABLY IS.<P>That said, it doesn't sound too good, does it? You are doing all the right things, it sounds like. I'm a strong believer in honesty, and I think you are too, especially if you've gotten into Harley's stuff, and you need to find out the truth. That's gonna be a pain, it sounds like. <P>You're here, and that's a good thing, and your W is still at home, another good thing. I think I'd be tempted to have a chat with the neighbor. Tell him to leave her alone. Up to you though...<P>Best wishes... <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

I have already had that talk with him about two months ago. He played very dumb and almost very convicing in the fact that he said they where just very good friends. Another red flag is that he avoids me if I am outside with the kids. This never used to happen with me in that he would come over and talk with me. No more just avoid me.<P>You know I almost think in someways that I would just like to know everything to move on one way or another. In my mind something has already happen either emotional, full blowen or both. <P>It would be helpful for someone who is a women can respond with how they might react if they had an affair. Is it really the bad boy stuff or Mr Mom? Don't you think that after 7 months of the good guy stuff that things would begin to improve? It seems to be going back and forth with us right now. Good in that we talk at all levels. Sometimes she wants to talk and other times she does not. <P>She seems very confussed on what to do. Can't connect emtionally.

Zip,<P>I didn't understand one thing you said:<P>"It would be helpful for someone who is a women can respond with how they might react if they had an affair. Is it really the bad boy stuff or Mr Mom?" <P>Did you mean you wanted to hear from a woman who'd had an affair?<BR><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Zip --<BR>Been married for over 15 years and just now going through a similar situation. W and OM (H of her "best friend") seem to be having an affair -- emotional, sexual, or both.<P>I found the e-mails. I've answered the phone. I've heard stories from my kids that rase suspicions. And, like you, have been told all about "friendships".<P>I'm new to this b-board stuff, but it is great to have a place to vent and question with others who are in the same situation. One thing has been repeatedly pointed out to me, though: Be cautious. Trust some of your insticts. Don't fall for the guilt trips.<P>I haven't perfected all this. In fact, I'm struggling with the same question myself right now. Is she having an affair or am I being paranoid? Can I trust her? Can I trust myself? Hell of a deleima (sp?), huh? <P>Good luck, and hang in there. You're not alone!

Trust your intuition. If it hasn't yet happenned, sexually....then it sure sounds like an emotional affair...which eventually leads to sex.<P>Your W is being very disrespectul to you and your marriage. She knows what she is doing, but doesn't want to stop. She puts the blame on you because she doesn't want to accept the responsibility for the harm and problems she is causing.<P>I know to others, this may be lovebusting....but I'd probably go have a talk with the OM's wife to let her know what is going on.<P>If both of them believe that they aren't doing anything wrong, then they really don't have anything to hide, right?<p>[This message has been edited by NoTrust (edited October 12, 1999).]

I agree with NoTrust on this one... didn't think of that one... that's what I would do.<P>BTW, I asked the question above because I AM a woman who had an affair. I was speaking from my experience. Nothing I'm proud of...<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

I think you know whats going on.. and the answers here from everyone point to your conclusion...<P>Go to OM's wife and see if it looks the same from her side...<P>It will at least let you know whether or not your on the right track...<P>cozy

Thanks to all of you for your input. Sheryl, sorry I did not get back sooner been on an airplane all day. I was asking the question to get a womens point of view. Meaning if you had an affair would you act this way? Or if you where just upset with all the love busting would you act this way? Or both? Therein lies the confussion for me.<P>Maybe I have read too many books about walls that women can put up and how hard they are to come down and that is why I am trying to believe her. But you would think after 8 months that things would be getting better not worse. <P>Sheryl, how did you react when your husband confronted you? Did you want to put more distance between him? Did you treat him as badly and use the excuse that you did not treat me the right way in the past. Things would be much easier if a 3rd party was not involved. <P>Is there anything to lose by going to OM's wife?

As I read one of the above posts I wounder if my wife is also going through some withdrawl from her friend. She told me the other night that she was having a hard time trusting me. Wanted to really talk but felt that we could not do that right now. Told our consuler that she felt like there was no saftey net with me.

Zip, <P>There's everything to lose by going to the OM's wife, but it's a chance you will take if you want the truth. Your W may become very angry, and theoretically could use it against you, or worse yet, use it as a reason to leave once and for all. It's happened.<P>I was thinking about the OM for about three weeks before my H came to me. I had been crying to him, telling him I'd fallen out of love, that I was going through a mid-life crisis. He knew there was "someone" but didn't know who. I'd told him without his asking - everything but who it was. All hell broke loose after the one time I slept with the OM. My H then knew exactly who when he went through my purse and found evidence (a note from him and a picture). I was sorry I was caught, because I felt like a whore, but I was also so ashamed and embarrassed. I KNEW what a huge mistake I'd made though. I never slept with the OM man again, and the relationship was over three weeks later. But my H went through, and is still going through, hell on earth. There's other reasons that I won't recount here, unless you want me to. Please look at my profile for a few details.<P>I hope this helps you. Remember, we're all different, and your W will have her own way of dealing with this. You will too... <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited October 13, 1999).]

Thanks for the thoughts. My questions is still how did you act when you where having your affair? Seems like it is very consitant with want we are going through. Did you deny deny deny?

Zip,<P>No, I didn't. Mine was an exit affair, or so I thought. I wanted out of my marriage and thought the affair was the way to do it, I guess. I mean, I answered every question my H asked (and now he wishes I hadn't). I was honest to a fault after the first three weeks when I was just "thinking" about it.<P>In that way, I'm different than most who have affairs. <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

Wife has been very distant the last couple of days almost like it was when things where really bad this summer. Seems very preocupied with other things and says she is not feeling well. Has lost a weight over the last 8 months and hardly ever eats.<P>Strange thing is that she was pretty good for about 3 weeks and then the wheels began to slowly come off. Has a hard time with anything that I say at all. Not sure what she is going through because she says that there is no trust or respect between us. Even though I have offered to listen and be non judgemental.

Talked to my wife tongiht and told her that I went to a shrink to talk about how I can be come a better person. We are in joint consuling right now. Told her that sometimes I may be too judgemental and would try better to listen to her and have more capicity to forgive then I did in the past.<P>She says that she thinks that it takes time for someone to change like and still in a very Bill Clinton like way says her friendship has nothing to do with us.<P>Pushing her just drives everything deeper. The joint shrink said in my session that there was a risk that something might have happen with Mr. Mom. She also said that I need to take care of myself and that my wife needs to rally her feelings. Whatever the hell that means. How can I break the log jam here? I have already gone off like a busted firehose and that has not worked

Zip, <P>Just show her TONS OF LOVE and... I hesitate to say this because I know how hard it will be, but... try to woo her back to you. If you can, that is. Sometimes the anger and pain is too strong (like with my H, he just can't woo me anyway, anyhow). If you can do it, it will make a world of difference. If that doesn't work and you want her back, you might consider more desperate measures: moving, for instance.<P>You are here, doing the right things, and you're right - losing it will only push her further away. <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR>

I've read most of the replies but, from my own experience, she is most certainly having some sort of affair. If it isn't sexual ... it will be. That is how my affair began. He was my pastor and my friend. We spent a lot of time together. I was defensive w/ my husband and told him how much I valued OM's friendship. UGH!!! It makes me sick now. <P>I hope your wife realizes how devastating this is before she makes a huge mistake. <P>She seems to be connecting emotionally w/ him rather than w/ her H. <P>My advice, (keep in mind this is all new to me) is to lay down the law NOW! You have the right to request that she not be friends w/ this man. If she loves and values your feelings, she'll respect that wish. <P>

Thanks to both of you for your posts. Man she has been really distant the last couple of days almost nasty. I think this thing is coming to a head. I told her that she can come to me with anything and trust me.<P>She says that she does not think that she can right now. I am usually a very agressive person and push for what I want. This has been tough becasue it has not been working<P>My guess is she still loves the jerk and is trying to let me know in a very soft way. I am about ready to kick his A@#$ if this thing does not get squared away soon.<P>I liked both your comments on what is going on. Why would she become so distant over the last week? Does she know that it is coming to a head? There is no doubt that she is emotionally involved with him. My guess is that if it has gone on for 8 months that there is a lot more. <P>Give me some direction. All shrinks want to do is talk about feelings which are great. But I need an action plan. Get agressive? Back off and let her trust me? What happens when she does finally crack? How should I react? I know I am going to blow up like a busted firehose.<P>That is probably not going to help either. What happens if she says that she still loves the guy. I know that once she breaks out of this trance she will be OK. But how can I break the spell when she says it is nothing but a friendship. Should I show her the stuff that has been written on this board?<P>I showed her Harley's stuff on affairs and she said that it does not pertain to her. I am about ready to blow a major gasket with her over this whole thing!

Just curious. Why am I the one that has to be the one to put on the happy face? I have been trying to do this for 8 months with with no luck. Sure I have had moments where I have love busted and set us back. But how much rejection can someone take before you do just lose it?<P>I am trying but have done nothing to the extent that she has. I will continue to try and make this work. I think I have gone above and beyond the call of duty. I think most of the people on this board have. <P>I know I have not given 110% yet. I am going to do that for awhile and see what happens. But it is soooo tough to get slapped down all the time. Not my style to continue to kiss butt. Thanks for letting me vent!!!!!!!!

Hey Zip...I just read this entire thread and there's good advice here. From all I've learned and all I have lived I know this...your W is deep in this affair, be it emotional or physical or both, and she's in withdrawl. I don't know how you'll handle this, we are all different and our marriages are different too. With my H I had to lay down the rule of "no contact" and make him stick to it. Being in an affair and a fantasy he of course promised me but lied and I caught him. But, affairs are lies and this will happen before commitment happens.<P>Does she want to work on your marriage? Is she committed to rebuilding?<P>Sucks that it is us, the betrayed, that have to do the work you know. We have to hold it all together and pull these people out of their self-created fantasy...really, really stinks. But, you know it can be done and there are many successes here.<P>Hang on...<P>------------------<BR>Joan <P>"Turn your wounds into wisdom..." That really cool black gal who was on Oprah all summer.<BR>