Krazy,

The point LousyGolfer was making was that he and his wife have been using MB tools... and you have not.

This website isn't here just to provide a place to vent. There are a set of tools, a whole program, for restoring marriages. And they work pretty well if you apply them.

Krazy, I haven’t read all of your other thread nor most of the replies on this one so hopefully I'm not repeating here. Having had four children myself I can say that I know EXCATLY what being 9 months postpartum feels like. I remember being in the shower until the hot water ran out just so I could have some time to myself. What a luxury, no one endlessly pulling for my attention and no responsibility for anyone but myself for that period of time. I knew my H would take care of things for as long as I was in there. It was my only time of rest and yes, I’ve done 2.5 hour baths myself. Many times.

Like your wife, I took all responsibility for the nightly needs of the children which meant interrupted sleep for years. I was exhausted all the time. If we had to deal with affair recovery on top of that I would have probably acted as unenthusiastic as your wife about sex. As it was, I had my unenthusiastic moments anyway. Him looking at me and asking “do you want to fool around” (BAD, bad approach btw) and knowing it had been a few days was dread provoking back then. It was just one more thing to do of a million. Initiation on my part was out of the question…too tired. Par for the course for millions of new moms.

So with that perspective it seems to me that your issues have less to do with the A than it would seem. I realize that these are your feelings and I don’t mean to minimize them but…... Now that you have an infant to care for (with most of the responsibility falling on your wife), you are going through the normal transition period all parents of infants have gone through. The A complicates things I get that but it really isn’t your only issue unless you continue to make it so in your own mind.

She’s 9 months postpartum give her a break, cut her some slack, stop blaming so much. Be loving and you’ll get a lot farther not only with sex but with your recovery. You can eventually get exactly what you want, an Enthusiastic bed partner. It can happen but you really need to choose to be loving. Right now, I doubt that she feels you love her at all, she can't do anything right in your book. Could that be possible? You really have to get a grip on yourself before whatever love you do have is gone for good. Your choice.

You might want to do some research on specific seduction techniques ( like they have on the Internet for single guys) …arm yourself with some new tools to seduce her. Change it up a bit you know? It can’t hurt and will probably be fun, Lord knows you guys need to have some  KB

I don't know. Since Mrs. Krazy knows there is a problem with the SF, and KNEW that Krazy was tired, a 3 hour long bath seems a bit over the top to me.

Seems more like she took her time KNOWING that it would drive KRAZY crazier. And to add insult to injury she made the do it down here or upstairs remark.

Remember Krazy says he has been working hard on the marriage for 16 months.

Was she this disrespectful toward your feelings BEFORE the affair?

On the practical side, you could shower together. You could switch the SF to mornings. But I suppose she has a problem with THAT too.

Does she work outside the home?

I think you have what it takes. I think maybe the disconnect is that when people are offering suggestions, you are quickly translating that into being Mr. Nice Guy, or having to bend over and take it. I don't think that is what people are suggesting. Being Mr. Nice Guy is no better a strategy to get what you want than being an angry tyrant. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> KWIM.

If your goal is to recover your M, then many times, being "right" is incidental. Said another way, if when you said this:


Your WW had responded with "your right, your absolutely right." Do you really think anything would have changed? You temporarily might have felt better. Maybe you would have had SF. But it would not be what you were looking for. In a short time you'd be back posting either that SF is terrible because you think WW only does it because she feels guilty or that the same problem was occuring again.

Its not the SF, its you want your WW to want you. You want her to want to meet your ENs. Okay. Nobody is saying that isn't right. What there saying is that to make that happen you have to be attractive. Angry people aren't attractive, and neither are doormats. So, if you want to make it happen, you're going to have to pick something in between. The MB plan suggests meeting your WS ENs make you attractive, avoiding LBs make you attractive. Some believe a 180 plan makes you attractive. Many people have offered advice on other strategies. And I'm sure there are countless other ideas. But I guarentee very few of them suggest being angry or being a doormat.

Good luck!

Spoken like someone that has no need to compare mentally,
as they've been there and done that in the real world.
Plus did it as a personal choice .......not as a consequence of a betrayal.

Sorry but the WS got to Compare first hand,
not unreasonable to expect a bit of that on the back end from the BS.

Unfortunately,
{WW} your the one that brought the need and the means of a Comparison into the marriage.
Now its there and at some point has to be acknowledged.

Speaking as a BS,
this is NOT what any of us would have wanted,
but since now IT IS HERE .......please stop making us still come out on the shorter end of the stick.
That is a 2nd, and even more denigrating type of rejection.

In a hurting mind:
Its as if we're not even worthy of the attention you gave to this OP (which you NOW claim isn't even all that important).
Hence,
if he's (OM) not even that important .....yet GOT all this from you .......and I as the BS, don't even rate enough to get at least equal treatment ......what does that say about how you REALLY feel about me??

Cause like it or not folks ....at this stage of the game ....its ALL about actions .....words don't hardly rate squat doodlie.

And yes,
sexual interactions speak volumes .....especially when dealing with any A that turned Physical.
Just a reality.

Keep in mind that its the WS that brings this stuff to the marriage bed.
Once they Chose to bring it in, now its fair game.

So just like no one can UnDo the A,
you also can't Now just pretend that this Newer sexual dynamic hasn't been created.

ITs kinda like you can't separate the water and the wet.
If you get the water, you also get the wet.
Just part of the bargain.

IMO,
It is not unreasonable to expect "at least" the bare minimum that the OP "got" ......especially if that includes things that the BS didn't "get" in the time before the A ---
Be it in actual acts, frequency OR even attitude [which the last I'll admit may be tougher to quantify, but not impossible].

Hey,
Pre A,
its one thing not to get this or that in the bedroom.....or Do it this way or that way ...OR not get it as often,
when your spouse simply says they don't enjoy it OR have some other type of reason for not doing it.
Fine ......most of us just learn to live with it.
And I'd dare say many have pre-A.

However,
ONCE a WS does INTRODUCE these things into their own Sex Life ......[which by extension MUST include their marriage partner for goodness sake] ......then NOW those things also become reasonable to be expected by the BS.

And not just once a year on my birthday either. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

How totally and utterly disrespectful is it to discover that it wasn't actually the act or frequency that your spouse didn't enjoy ..........Oh no, they've been lying about that too .........nope, instead its just that they CHOOSE to NOT do it with You {or not as frequently/passionately , as the case may be}

Tough pill to swallow to find out that its " YOU " that they have the issue with ---
and not the sexual act itself.
Talk about causing some resentment .......you betcha.

Indeed,
one can accept a spouse not doing sexual things that they may have done BEFORE you were even in the picture.
{such as pre marriage or even dating perhaps}
Hopefully most folks could understand that position.

But come on.
You won't do for me , the [color:"blue"] stuff [/color] you did for HIM ...... While WE were Married! . <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
That's just pushing things a bit too far if you ask me.

*********************
OK, rant/understanding over

*********************
However,
I will state that at the stage your in Krazy,
there is probably little that would calm you or satisfy you for long.
Your simply in a very ANGRY place and its gonna take some time and effort to get passed it.
Just another reality.

For instance,
I'm 5 yrs post d-day and it took me a LONG 4 to finally get to a place of forgiveness and acceptance.
At the 1yr mark I was still an emotional zombie, sometimes firestorm. I was either deadened to the world OR raw to the touch flesh.
And when I exploded I exploded.
Keep in mind that everyone's time line is a little different.

Anyways,
just wanted you to know that I agree with your premise of its not acceptable for the WS to withhold from us, what they gave away soooooo easily and freely.

On the other hand,
I doubt your really ready to deal with the issues that really are at the heart of dealing with this problem.
Which I suspect is mainly resentment.

And please don't take that as blame or an insult.
Its not.
Its just that your not yet far enough into your own timeline to effectively Deal with all this yet.
I get that.

My hope is:
if you stay (in the home) and don't do anything "crazy" .....you will eventually get there.

Took me to about the 2 1/2 yr mark to be really emotionally healed enough to make more significant strides.
Doesn't mean I didn't make some smaller gains in those first 2 yrs.

Hopefully your timeline will be a bit quicker then mine was.

Lastly,
it was true forgiveness that was the ultimate key to whatever success I've achieved.
Without my faith I doubt I could have ever gotten there.
Doesn't sound like your at that point yet ......but keep it in mind for the future.

Wishing you only success in your journey. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Top Rope,

I think you hit the nail on the head. I agree with every word of your post. Thank you very much.

Krazy,

I have skipped thru this thread, so I apologize in advance if what I say is repetitive to what others have posted.

I've been, and somewhat still am years later where you are today. Throw in metapause, it can all be very frustrating.

You are gauging progress by your W's actions and responses. I expect we all do to a degree, but it can be harmful.

Especially if you change your actions as a H because of it.

Back to your let down evening.

First: Avoid referring to your W's A whenever you are trying to be a M couple! There is a time and a place. When your in bed together is definately not the time to bring this up.

You FWW is going to remember the results of the last attempt to be intimate, and the referrence of OM the next time. Who wants to relive that?

Next time: Comments made about getting lucky that evening? Cool... Get those kids to bed, ensure they have everything they need before tucking them in. She's still dragging her feet in the bath? Go to the kitchen break out a bottle of wine, and make your way to the bathroom.

If it's me....Here's were I make a smart [email]a@@[/email] comment about not having patience to wait on her, I better help out!
Nothing sexual (yet). Just relax and be together, breath an end of day sigh of relief.

This is a win-win situation for both of you... Quality time spent together, your both clean, your not lying in bed alone staring at the clock, she gets an unexpected surprise from her DH.

For me the down side would typically be... My W's hair would not get dried properly after the bath, and the bed sheets and pillows would be damp when we get to sleep (If we actually make it to the bedroom).

I am also aware of how difficult executing this can be after an A. Wounded ego, ect... This does get better, I promise you.

There is also alot of truth to "fake it till you make it". It's hard to do, but it will speed recovery. You are half of your M. Lead by example.

Again, most important! KEEP TALK OF OM OUT OF YOUR BEDROOM!

-JKT