As much as I want things to work out for you. I want them to work out well.

Just be careful in her actions. If she is 'planning' anything with another man, then she is not bound to you. If she is dealing with you at the time she is 'planning' with him, then I fear it might merely be out of guilt and immediate trauma of your hospitalization. I fear that when the guilt of 'putting you in the hospital' abates... she will most certainly revert to her old ways.

Just be careful... truthfully, I personally don't trust her a bit and would move on. This is purely me, but I just don't think she is anyone who could commit after the history you have gave us. Of course, if I could tell the future, I would be living on a beach somewhere...

I know...my heart still loves her, and worships her. Seeing her I want to pick her up and just hold her, even though we are both heavy set and I'm not physically strong enough to do that. It just hurts that this is all going this way...yesterday we finally talked about feelings and she understands exactly how I feel about her...she thinks she's a total [email]b@#$h[/email] for doing what she did and I could see the hurt in her eyes...I just don't understand why things have to head in this direction...I really hope that others reading this can give insite or advice to me as well as others who might be in this type of situation, hopefully some can get their recovery long before any physical affair gets in the middle of their relationship/marriage. Having had 2 wives do this just plain destroys you...I feel that I may be alone for the rest of my life if this does indeed go to a divorce and that scares me...having a bad self esteem doesn't make things better either. I feel like such a total and stupid idiot at times.

Well it is truly over...there is no chance of a recovery...there is nothing left to recover. I have gotten the feeling that she's just drained away all emotional attachment she once had for me. This has been the hardest christmas day of my life. I feel so empty and dead inside, all I feel like doing is just going to sleep and not waking up. I have next to no support out here now and I think all of our common friends now think I'm just a worthless idiot so there is no help there. I feel abandoned by everyone right now..like I'm on a tiny island out in the ocean with no place to lie down to rest and nothing on the horizion to give me any hope of rescue. I just hate myself so much right now that it isn't funny. Christmas has always been a time where I do my best to be around family( in-law, or blood ) and this year there was nobody. Thinking about the new year coming up, I can only think of 1 month where there wasn't anything special that dealt with family..11 months of hurt and pain and misery overpowering 1 month of relief...I honestly do not know how I'm going to survive this. It feels like my very life is draining away from me by the minute...only to be replaced by misery and hurt. God I wish I could change this but I can't...the wheel is rolling and it will roll over me and destroy what little self esteem and worth I have left when it does. Even trying to look ahead at the prospect of finding someone new seems bleak...I don't think I can even date anymore, I honestly don't think i remember how to...and with the fear of being hurt again I seriously doubt that i will be able to. She knows exactly how i feel about her but I can see that the feelings are not mutual...so women win...they have the absolute power to destroy men and make them feel as though they're worthless and useless. I know someone somewhere will think this wrong, but stop and think about it...most women I know of have bounced back and been able to recover enough of their lives to form a new relationship and eventually a loving marriage...the guys I kno usually wither away and become recluses and lonely. I can't think of myself as being that type of person, it just hurts to much...
for some reason the song " seasons in the sun " keeps playing in my head, don't know the group but for some reason this song will not leave my head.

I just wanted to respond so that you know that someone read your post and cares.

Please consider going and visiting with family or friends today or at least getting out of the house/apartment and getting some fresh air.

Make an appointment with your primary care physician and see what he or she thinks would be best for you. Temporary antidepressants may help you get over the hump of the situation.

Don't listen to sad songs. Do something proactive today. Clean, get some chores done, go grocery shopping, etc.

Make 7 lists of things you will do for the next week - even including what you will eat. Just look ahead and make plans.

For what it is worth, I think you are projecting and assuming a lot regarding your wife's feelings and how women recover from these things in general.

Hang in there. I'll say a little prayer for you.

I am currently on ( 3 ) different types of anti-depressents, as well as suffering from their respective side effects, these drugs just do not like me for some reason. I do my best to not listen to sad songs, I usually turn off the radio when I hear one, which helps, but the one I was refering to is in my head and I haven't heard it in a while, so I don't know how to turn that one off.
I'm not entirely sure i understand about the projecting of feelings about women and my wife...I have a mental list of things to do, the main one is get a stable good paying job..but have as yet been able to find one.

When I arrived at MB's divorce forum in August, 2000 that is how I felt about one man in particular!

Reading Harley's books, radio show and articles on this site 7 years later I am very happily re-married thanks to the marital skills I have learned here. My H was also betrayed and was 13 years divorced when we started dating.

These forums are a place of support, you aren't alone! We've been there!



Time to stop the stinkin' thinkin'!


Don't assume to know what people are thinking.

I can relate to feeling alone, I'm a 53 year-old only child. Hopefully you are also in counciling to try to work out your feelings along with medications you need to get through this tough time!

(((((2hearts)))))

Medication is actually making me sick...these meds have done this before in the past and aparently the 3 thay have me on are not working correctly along with the meds for blood pressure. The counselor I have, I feel, has lost his helpfulness. Don't get me wrong, he's a good guy but I think he is out of his league when it comes to the issues I have from the past and currently have. Even when I was at the hospital, they didn't want to even touch the things that have started coming back to haunt me from my past as a young child...so now I'm lost and scared and alone. I have been posting in the recovery section as well as here since Iwasn't sure where my marriage was actually heading. There had been some links to letters and devotionals left for me there and I had felt like sending them to my wife before hand...well I did it today and I told her about it. The response I got was " It won't change anything " so she's going to move forward with the one she cheated on me with( the 3rd man after she had a affair with a woman ) so this is where I base my thyinking on the fact that women can recover and get married where men just wither away and die alone.
The feelings of love that I have for my wife are still very, very strong and I think they are now enjoying torturing me because they know it's over...but my heart still skips a beat when I see her. This is going to be one long and painful process of destroying feelings and trust and compassion for someone I love so much it hurts, I am not entirely sure where to begin to kill those feelings. I dream about her, I remember the fun times we have had in the past, I hope there is a future, and I always come back to the same place I was before...there is no future. The funny thing is I feel more compassion from ex #1 than I do from anyone else. Not even my family seems to want to help me out in anyway, and they were all helpful when my first marriage crashed and burned...this marriage hasn't crashed yet, but it is only a matter of time now...and I fear this one will take me out when it does.
I hate the feelings of being alone, it hurts way to much. However with nobody to turn to in person I guess i just have to face this demon alone.

fwiw, I think you deserve better than the woman you are pining for. I know that's bitter milk at this point, but from my vantage point, it looks like she isn't worthy of you. Please listen to our advice, and go outside, or somewhere. Take a walk. Go to a museum, look into the volunteering I was talking about, go online and find out what concerts etc. are going on in your area. You need to be around other people, so you can see that there is a lot more you can get out of life than this one person. And I know this may sound cruel, but why would you be pining for someone who cheats on you? Because you don't deserve any better? BS! You deserve as much as, if not more, happiness than she will ever find by behaving like she is. So go out and do something for yourself to get your mind off of what could have been, and most likely would have been a series of affairs and more unhappiness for you, if you had stayed together. You deserve better.

I have been, in a half-hearted way, looking for someone to spend time with...although I am not sure how to entirely go about this. I know several of you will say it is way to early...and you may be right, but I can't stand the being alone and knowing that her life is moving on and mine is " stuck " on hold. I told the counselor, who I just came back from, that I feel like I'm stranded on a island where there is no room to lie down to rest on. He suggested that there is a series of islands ( can't spell his word, but starts with a " a " ) and that I just need to look for some vessel to move me from the sinking island to higher ground.
I'd be interested in knowing if any of you out there have felt like this and creative ways you have found to " travel " to higher ground. I know there is a better life out there somewhere, and I really need to find it. I guess this weekend I'm going to have to make a list of some sort of goals to see about " moving ahead " in my life somehow. Even if it means learning how to swim from one island to the next.

I'll stick by my assertion that the number one way to feel better is to help someone else. Find a way to get involved in someone else's life. Call United Way and ask about volunteer opportunities. Helping others shows yourself that you are valuable, and that seems to be what you need more than anything right now. I promise it helps. What do you like to do? Are you a good reader/writer? Artist? Computer person? Dog person? Love old people? Love kids? Welder? Carpenter? Accountant? There are a million ways you can help others, and millions of people out there who are worse off than you are, and need someone's help.

I used to be pretty good with cars, but I just can't crawl around them like I used to. I am, however, pretty good with computers. Both fixing, programing, maintaining, and teaching people how to use them. Does anyone know if there is a United Way chapter close by Seattle somewhere? This might be the ticket I need, and it might actually help with the self image issues I am currently suffering with.
And I think you're right Catperson...I think I am pining away for my soon to be ex-wife in hope that her misfortunes in her building of a relationship with this guy going bad would lead us back together. However I think, whomever said it, it is probally for the better. I think she will never be able to truly settle down with one person again. At one time she was looking through the internet seeing what the percentages of someone who has cheated in a previous relationship doing the same actions again. Her track record isn't that good as we talk about things from her past and our shared past...must be that hindsight thing again...don't we all wish we could have that kind of ability to see what lies ahead in our own lives instead of looking back and saying " I should have realized that, or done that "...but if we could do that, then we'd all put Dr Harley and the other counselors and therapists out of buisness.
On another note, do any of you think it wrong to be looking for someone else to replace her at this time??? I have stated before in here that i hate being alone, just makes me feel worse knowing that this might be my future with special days coming up with nobody to share them with and spend time with.

I just wanted to say if you are ever feeling bad enough to need to go back into the hospital and your experience with the hospital you were in was disheartening, I recommend going to Stevens hospital. It is in Edmonds so it is a little ways away from Seattle but I was admitted to the psychiatric unit for two weeks two years ago and it was a wonderful, life-altering experience with very nice and dedicated doctors and nurses. They also have excellent outpatient programs that you might want to look in as well. I think you need to focus on yourself right now and getting right with yourself before you can work on anything else in life, including your marriage or a new relationship.

I wish you the best of luck! God bless.

I don't know about hospitals...they're in the top 3 of things I despise being at...the other 2 are cemetarys and funeral homes. The people at Harborview think it has something with me associating those places with death,..but they didn't offer to go much further than that answer. I have 2 outpatient Dr.s now...1 is a therapist, the other is a Physologist who will more than likely want ot change the antidepressents I'm on...well should be on, I stopped them because they're doing wierd things to me and I can't stand the side effects they were causing. I have seriously thought about giving St. John's Wort a try...anybody on here ever use that? I know medications should never be stopped cold turkey, but those types of meds have a long history of nausea, disyness, iritability, and a few other side effects I'll skip but I am sure those who have used them know what those are.

First, anyone who's been on meds will tell you it takes several months at least of trying different meds and dosages to find the right fit for you. Please go back to the doctor immediately and tell him he needs to adjust it. It is what they do; they're expecting you to tell them it needs adjusted. Please don't stop taking them.

Second, just go to http://www.unitedway.org/myuw/index.cfm for Seattle United Way locations. I'm so glad you're going to do that; you will be, too.

Third, you are way too vulnerable to be with a woman right now. It will hurt you AND her. Please just find ways to make friends with people. Join a computer user's group in Seattle and attend their meetings. Start a hobby and look for a group, like a garden club, that meets, so you'll be with people with similar interests. You need to start feeling like a human again. Try to think of what you were like at 18; what did you like, where did you want to go, what did you want to do? Try to reconnect with that person.

St John's Wort will NOT fix your problems. And you can change your opinion of hospitals by considering that they are in the business of helping people, not burying them. Death is only a small percentage of what they deal with. Think of the birthing wards, the physical therapy, the broken bones, the ER where they save lives. Hospitals are so much more than death - they are hope.

I have been on Paxil, Effexor, lexapro, Wellbutrin( cr and xl ) celexa, gepirone( a study drug that did work well after the dosage and side effects and time of day were resolved ) trazidone, and another study drug( this one delt with stronger dosages than normal ) All ofthese cause nausea, dizzyness, upset stomach, drowsiness, headaches, and on occasion confusion. My body is a medical nightmare, dentists hate me because my body will come out from under what ever they use to numb me down so they can do work. pain killers only work at low dosages for short periods of time, then I have to raise the dosages up beyond safe levels ( ibupropin is currently at 1000, and asprin is at 975 ) tylonal and advil do not work anymore. antibiotics have to be the extreme and not regularly used variations, amoxacillin to my body is candy..doxyciclyne no longer works either. I know I probally murdered the spelling ofthose but I at least gave it a shot. I have to take blood pressure medication, and from the ones I have taken in the past they all cause the same effects as the antidepressants. I know that most side effects leave after about 1 month of regularly taking the medications, but this is not the same with me. i'll have to take them either with food, without food, before bed, in the middle of the day, or early in the morning to get them to work for a while. I have, more often than not, had to go home from work because these medications had made me unsafe to be in any situation around equipment or things I could fall onto or into and get hurt. One of these drugs has sent me to the hospital with such nausea that they had to give me 2 shots of something that would calm down my stomach. This is why I was thinking about St John's wort. I did read that it can help with depression, but I don't think it mentioned severe depression like I have been diagnosed with. I jsut have great fears ofthese medications and wish there was some other way aroundthem, tomorrow I have a dr appointment and I'll let them know about the drugs interaction with each other and their current effects...and I did lower the doses to see if it helped and alternated among the meds to see which one caused the most trouble. Unfortunatly all 3 antidepressents and the blood pressure meds do not like each other. so I have kept taking the bp meds and stopped the other 3.
I know hospitals arethere to help people and that deaths do occur there, but I also know that there is a serious disease that now lurks in hospitals and I have seen what it can do in mild to major cases of infection. MRSA is what I am talking about. My father in law contracted this at one hospital and it almost killed him. he was on some of the strongest antibiotics out there to fight this disease off, and in the end the only way they could cure him was to remove the infected bone and tissue surrounding it. This whole event with my father in law has been going on for 6 months with a mild staph infection to major surgery and the contraction of MRSA and the battle to rid it. The team of surgeons actually said that he's lucky to be alive, they worked with the cdc in the hospital to find ways to cure him and with the local universities labs to come up with a cure.
I never knew what MRSA was untill I decided to look it up...now I know why I hate hospitals more...what is supposed to be a safe place can be staffed by people who " just don't want to deal with your problems " and the " incompatent staff " that works there. I felt like a fish in a bowl when I was in the phys ward..and I wasn't the only one. Several people felt like they were being ignored about issues that they had concerns with and felt like they were just there for the staffs ammusement. Hope, maybe...fear of those places...definatly. I don't know which is actually in what possition but I do know that funeral homes, cemetaries, and hospitals are all way to close to be divided into 1 spot out of a top ten list.

Why don't you consider getting a puppy? A puppy will give you something to take care of and an excuse to get outside if for no other reason than its daily walks.

Please spend some time on yourself and not on looking for someone else. I was looking on your timeline and you were D from your first wife a little over a year before you married again. Dr. H recommends 2 years of healing before you even think about dating again. In your case I think it is a great idea. IMO it seems you are/have been looking for someone to fill the painful hole left from your childhood. Until you deal with your past this will still be an issue. Have you been in IC? Is there a local group you could go to and make new friends with similar interests? I know my church has all kinds of groups from prayer, sewing, cards and computers etc. Get out there and get busy doing something, anything to keep your mind and spirit up. My heart and prayers go out to you. Just hang in there and keep working on your own healing.

I don't know if I have enough will to live to survive 2 years or more without someone in my life. I don't make friends easily...and those who have been friends have broken my trust enough times to make me wonder if it is worth it. Being alone is not my thing,..even though I am not a only child, I grew up most of my life like a only child. the next of my family closest to me is at least 10 years or more older than I. With next to no family support, no " real " friends, and no wife...the outlook I have on life is getting darker and darker. Everyone keeps telling me that " there is a light at the end of the tunnel " well I think this is a un-finished tunnel and when I reach the end...that may very well be the end of me. The depression is being fueled and run by a strong lack of sleep, aided by sleep apnea. I don't think that the cpap machine will be of much help at this point of time, but I am supposed to get this thing next monday. I feel like " life " is passing me by while I am being dragged backwards into the forest to be left alone to die...

2hearts, have you made any of the changes we suggested? The only way you can feel better is to change direction from where you are now.

I was doing my best in attempting to get some organization in my life...I can't do the United Way thing...don't have a car that i can drive up to their office in seattle, and don't have the cash to ride up on a bus. I have come to a total dead end here...the depression has won...the pain is now crossed way beyond unbearable into a realm where I can no longer feel anything,..but I still cry. I have lost my true love and only reason I had to live...my beautiful wife Rachel...I only hope she knows how much i loved her and how bad it hurts to loose her and be replaced by another man...I guess love was never ment for me.