I have not gone about this recovery in the right way at all.

For a quick review, I was suspicious of my wife's relationship to another man about a week after it started. I discovered the proof I needed about 3 weeks later, so all in all, it was an EA/PA that lasted about 3.5 weeks. I confronted her and she immediately begged forgiveness and I allowed her to stay and we started counseling. I did not discover this website until 2 months after we started recovery.

So that was nearly 8 months ago. Where are we today? Well, she appears to be true to her word. I have been unable to detect any attempt on his part to contact my wife, outside of one conversation 7 months ago to apologize to her, which she told me about. They haven't worked together for 6 months and she seems to have come completely back to the marriage. She does a ton of little things for me to show me she loves me and we spend a lot more time together.

But I am a boiling cauldron of anger, grief, love, sadness, you name it and its in there. We have made next to no progress on our discussions about the affair. We have identified what caused us to grow apart, and we are correcting that, but I still know very little about the affair itself, and we have not had even one conversation about boundaries and how she justified the affair to herself.

And the sad part is that I have no one but myself to blame because I have not forced the conversations. Everytime I have tried to bring something up about the affair, she starts crying and retreats back into herself. I get vague answers clouded by time and confusion. The day SAA and HNHN arrived in the mail, I told her about them and she was withdrawn and depressed the rest of the day. I had not even asked her to read them yet. She seems to be so consumed by her own shame and pain that she is unable to deal with it and discuss it with me.

My own desire not to see my wife in pain has caused me to avoid these conversations, and just internalize the emotions until I can get them out a bit at a time in our MC sessions (about 2x a month). The end result is that for months I feel like I have been eroding from within. I have so much I need to say to her and need her to explain to me, but it sits inside and just festers.

So its time to right the ship. I need to stop protecting my wife from having to deal with the grievous emotional blow that she dealt me. I need to drop the stoic facade and let her see just how sad and empty I feel at times. Its the only way recovery will move forward for me. So I think this saturday, after her work holiday party, I am going to sit her down and have a calm conversation in which I let it all out. I am doing her a grave disservice and preventing her from maturing and growing as a person by protecting her from this pain.

I guess there are no questions in there, but I just needed to verbalize it a bit. I'll have to write something up before I talk to her about it to make sure I create a non-hostile environment to open up in.

Good for you andrew3.

You seem to have identified where the problem is and have come up with a plan to deal with it.

I concur that you Do need to talk about it and get your questions answered and gain some insight into the entire situation.

Truly some don't .......but since its still bothering you at this point in time, apparently YOU ARE one of the ones that NEED more in order to process what went on in your life.
I too needed to gain that type of perspective ....in order to be able to eventually move forward.
It does hurt, but IMO is necessary for any real progress.

Cause honestly,
{as with most of us}
simply ignoring issues probably Helped get you were you are today. That is a common theme.

However,
be forewarned :
Since you've let this go on for sooooo long .......it is going to regress your recovery for a time.
Doubly so,
since your W (in the interim) will be under the impression that everything has been just hunky dorry,
and may have some trouble understanding WHY you need to go back and bring this all back up.

Its unfortunate that you didn't get to this earlier on,
but Now is better then even later on ......as it would only continue to fester inside of you.

In any case,
Your idea to get your questions prepared ahead of time is a good one,
as it lets you plan what to ask/say while you are more calm and level headed, rather then in the heat of all the emotions.

Lastly,
honesty (even when its not pretty) will do MORE to strengthen your relationship then you realize.
Especially if your W can Learn from your example and begin to do likewise.
That's when real intimacy can begin.

Wishing you success in your journey.

Hi andrew,

Congratulations on making it 8 months. I just wanted to let you know you are right on schedule. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> I was also a seething, hurting, confused and conflicted BS at 8 months out.

I am glad to hear you are in MC.. Do you think your counselor is effective? It sounds as if your MC needs to help the two of you develop communication skills that will allow you to get some of the information to assist you with healing while helping your wife feel "safe" during the process.

If you decide to sit down after the holiday party and have a full and frank discussion, I would strongly urge you to set a time limit up front with a mutual agreement as to when to resume the discussion.

I also wanted to share that my FWH was shocked to learn in MC that I was still raw with the pain months after D-Day. Our MC had a private side session with him to help him understand this and how to deal with it. That was a turning point for us.

Best of luck to you and your wife. Keep working hard because it is well worth the effort IMHO.

Thank you both for the responses.
I do realize that this will regress recovery, but unfortunately it seems necessary to get us on the right track to give recovery a chance.

Part of the problem for me is that I feel like my wife has no idea what I'm going through. I gave her the url for this site about 2 months ago, but I have no idea if she has ever really looked at it. I asked her a few weeks ago if she had gotten a chance, and she said that she glanced at it, but had not really had much time yet. I just feel like she intentionally will not deal with anything that brings up the negativity involved with her affair. She wants to move forward in rebuilding the marriage, but seems to be unaware of why I am hung up...probably because I haven't mentioned it since September or so.

When I used to ask her questions about it, its not like she would try to be evasive about it. It was more like she was searching for the truth by looking through a dirty lens. It has caused me some concern about compartmentalization and whether its an unhealthy mental reaction to a form of trauma for her. Maybe thats something to bring up in MC.

I do like our MC though. I have had a few sessions alone with him, when my wife was out of town, and he seems to be helpful. He is not too familiar with Harley's concepts, but seems to follow them reasonably closely anyways. There are no MB counselors in the area anyways. I think a single session with him might be good for my wife, although I don't know how she would feel about it. I really don't think she would ever mention MC again if I didn't make any more appointments and tell her when they were.

Lastly, I think she knows on a subconcious level that this conversation is coming. She has asked me several times over the last week if Im sad. She says she feels like I am sad and not acting normal, so I know these emotions below the surface are starting to overflow. Based on past conversations, I think its going to wreck her day, but I don't see any way around it.

I have thought a lot about this. I do my best to let my rationality and reason rule my actions, and while I may feel like I need to know the answers, my brain tells me that many of the answers are unnecessary.
My plan is to start with the big issues and move down to the smaller things. First, I need clarification on the level of physical involvement. Secondly, I need to know how they orchestrated their meetings and where they met. Third, I need to know what she was getting from him that she could not even ask me for at home.

I'll start with that. If I find out that I need to know more, I will ask more. I may find that I need every detail before I am satisfied, regardless of whether it breaks the marriage or not.

Hi Andrew- I'm a FWW, and I think I have a little insight on your FWW. If she is truly repentant and truly wants to be married to you (which it sounds like she does)- then she is having to come to terms with what she did to you. It's like being slapped in the face- the "What was I thinking? How could I do this to someone I love so much? How could he ever forgive me? How can I forgive myself? What kind of awful person am I to have done this? I didn't think I was awful, but obviously I am, so what does this all mean for me- have I always been this horrible? How can I make him believe I will NEVER do this again??? What if the truth is all out there and NOW he decides to divorce me? This is all my fault."

These are at least what I think to myself, and I'm almost 2 years from my EA.

Get her to read HNHN and SAA. Truly miracles. Also, would you consider joint couseling with the Harleys? I know you like your MC, but maybe a combination?

Anyways, I wish you luck, you will open some very hurtful wounds, but if you can, try to be strong- you are obviously the one at the helm (to continue with your ship analogy), so be prepared to weather the storm.

HTH

Andrew,

I would only caution you to take your questioning slowly.

I found gaining some of the information I had asked for did more harm "triggers" than good.

She needs to be willing to answer questions she knows is going to hurt you honestly. Again just be careful.

For me something were just better off left alone, but everyone is different.

-JKT

Thanks, Howtoheal.

I agree with your insight regarding her motivations. I think she is driven by the thoughts "I did something horrible. Rather than talk about it, let me SHOW him how I can be a great wife now".

And truthfully, she is. She puts more effort into our relationship than she ever did before, and I want to do the same, but I need closure on all this pain first. I know she can feel my melancholy, so it has to be done now.

As far as the books go, I gave her HNHN to read, which she did, and we have talked about it some, but not officially taken the EN questionnaire yet. I told her my top 3 ENs, but she wasn't too sure about what her top 3 are. I have read SAA twice and will give that to her tonight to read next. The last book will be "Not Just Friends", which I am reading now. Its significantly longer and doesn't mince words, which I like about it.

I'll look into counseling with the Harleys, but I don't think our insurance would pay for it. We could afford to pay out of pocket, but its something we'll have to talk about.

Oh, definitely it needs to be done. As the Betrayed, you have every right to know whatever it is you need to know, and take as long as you need to to find it out.

She may feel like it's unfair for her to tell you what her EN's are when she's done what she did.

I don't think insurance covers the Harleys, but it's $$ worth spending out of pocket. A broken marriage costs soooo much more. And it will help her know how you feel and for you both to feel safer on this rocky journey. IMVHO, that is!

And do tell her that you see her actions- that you know she is working hard on your marriage.

HTH

Thanks JKT. I am not going to focus on the intimate details, as I don't believe those would be helpful. As far as the physical part of the affair, what she told me does not match the timeline of the affair, the intercepted messages I have, or my understanding (although limited) of human nature. I just want to know the truth of what level the PA went to.
The rest of the questions will be aimed at opening a dialogue about how she descended into an affair and how to set boundaries to prevent that from happening again.

I like to think that I have always made her feel safe in opening up to me. I have never shouted at her, threatened her, or otherwise badgered her. I always try to stress how I am focused on recovery and my actions are taken to achieve that goal. I honestly don't know how I can make it safer for her to tell the truth.

Andrew

I found that exchanging these kind of questions and replies on paper was less fraught than face to face.

Its hard for a BS to have the lips that sinned with somebody else tell you details of that sin even if you have asked for details.

Its also very hard for a good hearted FWS to have to say things looking into the BS eyes that they KNOW will re-break their heart.

Finally make sure you know what you want to know.

I wanted places / times but not really SF details. I've made love with Squid hundreds of times and I know what she looks like in almost every conceivable SF position and attitude.

It didn't help me to hear those replayed with OM in my "leading man" role so I didn't ask. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

All blessings

For informational purposes:
What my wife and I found best (for us) was for her to get emails from me asking what I wanted.

Then she would either type back OR write in her journal answers to me.

This let us BOTH be able to Think about what we wanted to say,
without the pressure of looking at each other ......and then having emotions take over, which usually lead to me interrupting her OR her simply shutting down.

Not saying we didn't talk .....cause we did a bunch ......but the writing method really took the pressure off of many of the larger subjects and then let us talk about how we felt about each issue , once we were able to Process the information, at least on some level.

Now as far as how much:
That's each individuals choice.

Guess a large part of my concern is that you know going back now on some levels takes you back closer to d-day emotionally.
So since you want the questions answered,
why risk in another 6 months or a year taking yourselves back to square one yet again with yet another round of questions you've let smolder inside of you.

That cycle not only hurts more .....but doesn't let you actually make real progress in the interim,
because inside of you there is always that elephant your attempting to ignore.

Unfortunately this creates distance between you, which is the last thing you need at this point.
Plus once you ask again, it undermines so much of the limited progress you are able to make.
Why put yourselves through that??

My advice to everyone is to get the informational part out of the way at the earliest possible times.
The months directly after D-day are ideal.
That way your journey can proceed with accurate information (that can then be dealt with on many levels) at the earliest possible date.

Doing it piecemeal can still work,
but it takes such a greater emotional toll on all parties involved.

I was only commenting on your thread because IF its still bothering you at this late stage,
apparently your one of the ones that cannot simply let it all go and sweep it under the rug.

If you were the type to do that,
I suspect that you'd already have done it.
In any case,
whatever you choose to do, may it only be positive in the end.

Thanks Top and Bob.

You both make some excellent points regarding handling this by journal entry rather than face to face. When I last broached this back in August, I did it in the form of a letter that I gave to her, but I think I inundated her with questions and details that she couldn't give me. She never responded to it after I reminded her 3 times. I told her that I felt like she had blown off my concerns as unimportant, but she told me that she had started to respond, but she just couldn't remember the answers to all the questions.

I feel it very acutely now that with the additional elapsed time, the affair will be even hazier in her memory. I have pared down the questions to just the main issues. Did she or did she not have sex with him? If so, was it protected? Where did they meet in the mornings and did they ever meet at night? Thats really all I want to know right now about the physical affair itself, no details beyond that. I don't see the point in cataloging all of their intimate contact over those 3 weeks.

After that, we need to examine how the affair went from him being an acquaintance to how he became the secret OM, because I believe there is a wealth of necessary information in there for her introspection. Lastly, we are going to discuss the boundaries/rules for our marriage going forward from here.

So a better way to put this might be, that my goal in the conversation is to put to rest some of the major issues I still have concerns over and lay the groundwork for the way forward. Not to drag us both through mud back to D-day. Some regression will be inevitable though, but thats because we took the wrong fork awhile back. We need to backtrack a bit to take the right junction.

Hi Andrew, there's a letter somewhere on this site that is really good about explaining to WS WHY you need this information. I can't remember who wrote it though but I'll try and find it. Anyone else know what I'm talking about?

Edit: Thanks for the recommendation. I will look up Joseph's letter.

Princess Meggy,

You may be thinkin of the Joseph letter.
Although I have read of it under different names as well.

If that's the one:
Yes,
it is very helpful.