(Reposted and updated from the Conflict section)

She had asked me to move out and give her time and space to heal herself. We had planned to do this some time ago but I didn't have the understanding of our problems that I do now, all I knew was it was mostly my fault. Things happened that prevented me from leaving right away ... among them, my cousin was shot in the head Thanksgiving morning was buried on her 21st birthday. Now Christmas is coming up and we have 4 kids to keep happy.

I haven't met her needs in a long time now and after finding this incredible site I realize how that has caused her to (I feel) stop loving me. I've made mistakes, primarily through anger and neglect.

I also realize that is why she got involved in an online EA, it gradually happened over the course of the past 3-4 months. When I found out the OM was actually flying in from Italy to stay in our house during our separation I lost it. We argued, I spied on her, and we both damaged our ability to trust each other. She said she knew she was being spied on and baited me as revenge. She claimed there was nothing going on and no way she would allow anything physical to happen. A nasty divorce was threatened by me and she told the OM to cancel the trip. It was then we learned he thought, due to a miscommunication, that we were already seperated.

It was while looking for links on trust and forgiveness I found this site. I talked to the OM, he is a member of a gaming forum she and I administer, and he apologized for the misunderstanding. It helped me to see the situation clearly and restored my trust in her.

I'm not really concerned about the EA anymore, we've dealt with it, but we still have the underlying problems to fix. The trouble is now I want to shower her with my rediscovered love. She has mostly shut me out though and everything I do seems to drive her further away.

Update: We went to a Dickens Christmas Village last night and she says she had a good time. I jokingly asked if it was with me or in spite of me, she laughed a bit and said "baby steps" which I took as a good sign.

Should I just accept it, move out, and hope for the best?

HILH - Welcome to the system. I'm glad you found this place because you WILL find the help you are looking for. IMPLEMENTING any help will be up to you, so in that vein, let me address one point of your post.



This is a "normal" feeling, and one you need to think about and maybe change your "reason." What I mean by that is a normal reaction that you may "run into" is a feeling by your spouse that you are "smothering her." That stems from your desperation to "right the wrongs" right NOW! It stems from a FEAR that you really could lose your wife. It stems from GUILT when you recognize that you HAVE done things that have contributed to an atmosphere in the marriage where your spouse is thinking that it's "hopeless" and her only thing to do is to look "outside" of the marriage to get what she has been missing.

Those are all valid and normal. But Recovery is often "counterintuitive" in how you actually DO what is needed.

Let's start with the changes in yourself that you have recongnized that YOU need to make.

You MAKE those changes BECAUSE they are needed regardless of whether or not you are married. You ACCEPT that you didn't get into the current mess "overnight" and you can't "expect" to "flip a behavior switch" and have your wife "forget" all the past and just accept that you have changed. IT TAKES TIME. Right now, even if you have made real changes, it is just "words" to your wife. Words are fine, but "the proof is in the pudding" as they say. It takes TIME to give proof that the changes are both real AND permanent.

So commit to the changes because they are needed. Be patient and know that over time, the changes will be accepted. KNOW that the average recovery timeframe is 2 years, so be PATIENT and HOPEFULL.

Keep posting and talking about things. You do NOT have to be in this alone.

God bless.

P.S. NO separation. Stay together. It's much harder to work on recovery if you are living apart.

1. Don't move out of your home! If anyone is going to move, it should be her. If she needs space, she can move into one of the other bedrooms in your home.

2. It's Plan A time.

I skimmed over Plan A. I'm going back to really read it now.

Being apart scares the skittles out of me. I'm willing to do it if needed but it seems to me that for her to see the changes in me I need to be around. I'd prefer to give her space in the same house.

A few years ago I spent a month on the couch , a year later she told me it was because she had gotten so unhappy with me she had slept with an old classmate. It was my failure to meet her needs then that allowed it to happen, unfortunately I never fixed anything. But, we got through that, this EA isn't nearly as devastating as the physical one was.

HILH, I think your WW is trying to get you out of your house, but not for the reasons that she's stating.



In other words, she held you responsible for her poor choices? No wonder why you feel like you're causing the most problems in your M - your W is foisting the responsibility for her poor choices and behaviour on you.



No - it was your failure to meet the needs that set the stage. But she made the choice for it to happen, NOT YOU.



I suspect that your WW hasn't told you the entire truth about both of her As (if those were the only ones). She's likely told you only enough to make you seem responsible for them.

Read and study Plan A, but please bear in mind that the A in Plan A doesn't stand for Appeasement. Under no circumstances should you accept responsibility for any of your WW's poor choices, or let her foist that responsibility on you like she's apparently doing now.

A few years ago I spent a month on the couch , a year later she told me it was because she had gotten so unhappy with me she had slept with an old classmate. It was my failure to meet her needs then that allowed it to happen, unfortunately I never fixed anything. But, we got through that, this EA isn't nearly as devastating as the physical one was.


It was NOT your failure to meet her needs that ALLOWED her PA to happen a few years ago. Your "failure" merely created an environment where an affair could happen. However, the CHOICE to HAVE an affair is 100% your wife's fault.

Do you see your supposed "Anger" issues as having largely developed for your repressed anger at having never dealth with her affair or were you always really angry???

Angry outbursts are likely the top Love Buster on the list and MUST be stopped. However, we should discuss them because often times, Wayward Wives have a way with manipulating their BH's into believing all sorts of stuff that aren't necessarily true. It's basically Gaslighting. She abuses you (an affair IS abuse), which you have every right to be angry about (although you don't have the right to have angry OUTBURSTS and even if you did I'd understand, within reason...i.e. no hitting), then she uses your justifiable anger to gaslight you into believing it was YOUR fault.

Anyway...with 4 kids at home a divorce is unlikely. It most situations it's just economically unfeasible. But DON'T EVER MOVE OUT and this time....DON'T BURY THE ISSUE. This is the 2nd time infidelity has touched your life. It WILL happen again unless you and she AFFAIR PROOF your marriage which can't happen until you address the underlying who, what, where, when's and, in particular, the WHY's.

Mr. Wondering

That's what I was thinking but it didn't come out quite right.

I know anger outbursts have been a big part of it, I'm not sure of the actual source of them though. I think it may be because of some of the things she does that hurt my self-esteem. For example she homeschools the kids and I work 10 hours a day. We struggle financially and sometimes she makes me feel like I'm not doing enough to take care of us. I see that we struggle, she doesn't have to be mean about it.

I hear you.

Do you get to spare any quality free time with your W? At least 15 hours / week?

15 hours ... probably, but quality time ... no.

We spend almost all our time managing the kids and house. We used to spend time online together playing games and chatting with the members of the group but rarely got a chance to do anything outside the house. Although lately she was spending so much time online without me even the housework fell to me alone IMO.

There is never enough money or a sitter so we haven't "dated" in years. I feel like the part of the movie "The Story of Us" when she says something along the lines of "at night when we could spend time with each other we usually ended up facing forward" (as they watch TV or read in the scene).

I just want to say I agree with the above advice given so far:

Don't move out of the home

It will take time for your wife to believe any positive changes you'ev made are permanent

Even though your wife was upset that you were not meeting her EN's she still had no valid reason for adultery (just justifications)

Uncover the sources of your anger, including having been blamed for her A's that were not fully dealt with, plus taking measures yourself to learn more appropriate ways to handle your anger.

"For example she homeschools the kids and I work 10 hours a day. We struggle financially and sometimes she makes me feel like I'm not doing enough to take care of us. I see that we struggle, she doesn't have to be mean about it."

OK, I homeschool too. It doesn't take all day long to teach the kids. IMHO if she has time to start A's and to play games online, she has time to maybe take a part-time job or start a home-based business, maybe babysitting since she spends her day with her own kids anyway?

As to her being 'mean' about the financial situation...
What is it specifically that she says/does that makes you feel like you're not doing enough? Are you sure that it is her opinion and not just yours? I'm asking because my WXH made comments that sounded like what you said, that supposedly no matter what he did, what he earned, I didn't consider it enough. But the truth was (in my situation) that I was quite capable of living without a lot of material things (we lived in an RV for several years with all our furniture and keepsakes in storage). In reality my WXH felt like a failure more because of his own way of measuring success ($ & possessions) and it had nothing to do with me wanting more than he could provide. So I'm just asking if maybe some of your feeling of 'not doing enough' is a guy thing and not really so much about her expectations?

Also, do you mean 'not doing enough' in regards to earnign money or is it about her needing more help with the kids and around the house? I know with always being home with the kids I sometimes needed to be home alone - so I'd ask my husband to take the kids to the park for a couple of hours now and then so I could clean house and actually see the house GETTING cleaner! LOL

hilh,

Time is the essential ingredient in any effort to build a marriage. What if you invested all that time the two you put into "gaming" on each other??? Don't let the virtual become a replacement for the real world and real time together. Time spend inside of a game....is time you could spend on so many other things that would rebuild intimacy.

Maybe I'm not really understanding the sitch, but isn't being an administrator time consuming?.....and most of the time it's voluntary? If y'all are going to get an extra job....why not get one that pays well to at least relieve some of the financial pressure?

Your wife could have a home business that makes a little cash without it getting in the way of homeschooling.

Time and Money.....two of the biggest challenges for marriages. Start looking at some ways to address those things.....and improving the rest of it will be a whole lot easier.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Have, the others gave you good advice, it would be disasterous to move out. I outlined the reasons here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post3352392

Sorry you are here, friend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Great points to ponder, thankyou.

I'm not very materialistic, I was before we met but she helped me unlearn that. Both of us have done without for the good of the household but I know she has given up more. But it may still be my feeling of coming up short.

The main concern is providing for the kids, especially with Christmas right around the corner. And we have a not-so-great mortgage that eats about half our money. We both love where we live and would prefer not to sell the house but I've started to thiink it might be for the best. Unfortunately we never talk about it in a meaningful way.

I do feel that she hasn't prioritized housework and time management very well. This was compounded by her ex BF calling DFACS on her about the house. The kids spent 3 days with my mom while we cleaned the house completely. I try to help after work, she has almost never had to do dishes in 10 years <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, but the kids haven't learned to pick up after themselves.

I don't have much time with the kids before they go to bed during the week but on the weekend I never offer to take them out and give her a break either.

sorry to double post (i hope thats not taken to harshly here) I just had to say THANKYOU for that link. That is exactly what I have been fearing.

I started thinking that by moving out and yes, even allowing him to still visit in my absence, that I would be demonstrating my trust and love for her. There is still a part of me that fears being betrayed but mostly I think I can trust them both since we've all talked. I don't feel like I'm being lied to anymore. She is actually more concerned because of my threat to pursue a divorce based on adultery.

Unfortunately, the only thing that will be demonstrating is how well she's gaslighted you.



See comment above.

Don't move out of your home!

IMO, I think you've got to change the "dance" that you're currently in with your WW. It sounds a bit like she's foisting more and more responsibility onto you, including responsibility for her poor choices. If it continues, expect her to contribute less and less to your M, and make more and more poor choices. You've got to end that "dance".

Have, first off, there should be no contact at all between them. And secondly, you should not trust her; she is untrustworthy. That would be insane. She has behaved in a very untrustworthy manner, and she has to EARN your trust back.

I do not think her affair is over at all, given that she has asked you to move out. The only reason a WS will ask for "space" is so she can carry on her affair. That is a classic SIGNAL.


Well, you did not get through that at all, because whatever caused the first affair has never been resolved. She is a serial cheater, Have. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> And unless she takes EXTRAORDINARY precautions to affair proof your marriage, this will happen again.

For example, she should never be on the computer alone again. You should put a keylogger on her computer and have complete transparency in your marriage. Never should you be apart overnight, etc. What is she willing to do to AFFAIR PROOF your marriage, Have?


I am concerned about this statement. You say you "damaged" trust. HOW? Did you also have an affair? Please explain what you have done to damage trust.

I think I get it, but just to be sure .. what exactly is "gaslighting"?

I already used a keylogger, thats how I found out how bad things were getting. Each time I confronted her with the logs she said she knew and "let me find what I wanted" and "stooped to my level". This happened 3 times as I'd agree to take it off and then put it back after more suspicious actions.

This is a lie. You know this, right? A woman doesn't need to kick out her H and lie about a visitor if it is purely innocent. If I have a "friend" coming over, I check with my H first and tell him we have company coming. Your W fully intended to have an affair in your own home and kick you out, Have.


There was no miscommunication. Either she lied and told him you were seperated or he didn't CARE.

DO YOU HAVE KEYLOGGER ON HER COMPUTER? Because if you don't, I would suggest getting one on there today. You are being PLAYED badly, my friend, and need to protect yourself and your children.

I already used a keylogger, thats how I found out how bad things were getting. Each time I confronted her with the logs she said she knew and "let me find what I wanted" and "stooped to my level". This happened 3 times as I'd agree to take it off and then put it back after more suspicious actions. [/quote]

WHY DID YOU TAKE IT OFF? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> How can you check up on her if you TAKE IT OFF??

Can you help me understand what you did to "damage trust?"

by spying on her after I said I would stop and not trusting her