ok. It is not untrustworthy to SPY on someone whom you suspect is harming you. It is untrustworhty to have an affair and lie to your H. Are the police being "untrustworthy" when they spy on drugdealers and catch them?

Nor should you trust her. SHE IS UNTRUSTWORTHY. That would be INSANE to trust an untrustworthy person.

Your W should NEVER TRUST you to allow her to have an affair behind your back.

You have an OBLIGATION to spy on her if you believe she is doing something wrong in order to protect yourself and your children.

Your wife has CONNED you into believing it is bad to SPY on her SO SHE CAN CONTINUE TO CARRY ON HER AFFAIR UNIMPEDED. People who have nothing to hide, DON'T HIDE.

If she were innocent, she would WELCOME your spying because she would want to PROVE to you that she is innocent.

YOU ARE BEING PLAYED, my friend.

Put another way, no one has the right to the privacy to have an affair!

Someone who says..........

1. I want you to move out so I can have some "space"

2. how dare you spy on me! that is untrustworthy! Stop it!

..............IS HAVING AN AFFAIR.

LOL - That's a good one. Mrs. Have I was going to move some stranger into your home as soon as you left, and she is angry because YOU DON'T TRUST HER?????????

I planned to put it back on today after work while she is getting her hair done. There is another problem though. They have Skype installed and can actually call each other through the computer which I can't spy on.

I don't know if she asked me to move out before or after the EA began, everything has happened very fast. She has made it very clear that she has been feeling this way for some time (years) and has just doesn't like being around me much now. She warned me not to let things get so bad between us or she would feel this way.

She says this situation is mostly bad timing, that the trip was planned even before the EA started and that the EA was a mistake. She of course didn't tell me of the trip until after she asked me to move out, he had tickets, and I had begun to suspect something more than friendship going on.

We've met people from the group before, never from outside the US though, and never someone that wasn't a mutual friend. This OM has been strictly her friend and this trip their plan.

She is babbling away. She must have found the wandering spouse textbook somewhere!

Feeling this way for years, blah, blah, blah, mostly bad timing, blah, blah, please let me continue my affair unimpeded, blah, blah, don't make me stop or things will go bad between us.

Yep, the affair continues.

btw ...

whats the policy on posting intercepted messages? I have some that might help.

She is lying to you about the trip, you understand this, right?

She needs to end all contact with the OM, Have. After you get the keylogger back on her computer, then ask her to send the OM a letter stating that there is to NEVER be any contact again. That is the only way your marriage can survive. If contact does not end, RECOVERY WILL BE IMPOSSIBLE.

And if he is just "a friend" as she claims, then this should be no issue at all. There is absolutely no "friend" worth a marriage.

A letter should be written by her, approved by you and emailed BY YOU. [I will post a sample below]

Just know that it is extremely disrespectful of her to continue contact with the OM and it makes recovery IMPOSSIBLE. So, it has to end. If she will not stop it, HAve, I would suggest telling her she must take her affair conversations OUT OF THE HOUSE. She should not be carrying on her affair conversations in the safety of YOUR HOME in front of you and your children. This should be a FIRM BOUNDARY, Have! You have to protect those kids from being exposed to her sleazy little affair.

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS
p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

[from SAA, pg 58] Sample no contact letter:

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

You can post them.

Count them - she has about 6 typical wandering spouse statements in that one post. Sadly, she doesn't realize that it is the same thing they all say. Gosh, can't one of them at least be original????

Melody is right. Ask her to send a no contact letter. She will refuse.

How old are all the children???

Also...if she's still pushing for you to move out, one big reason may be that OM cancelled his trip (likely still has the tickets) because you two weren't actually separated. So now...she's had to do damage control saying things like "well, we'd have been separated if we could afford it" or "we been living separate lives for years" type crap. Then...she actually HAS to get you out to convince OM that what she's selling is true.

Expect hostilities to increase when you tell her you are absolutely going no where and protect yourself with whatever means you can from her slapping a bogus restraining order or domestic violence order upon you to get your out. It happens all the time. Do not yell, grab, push, anything as she will call the cops on you to get you out.

Who have you exposed to? Might be time to tell her family about this indiscretion and the one from a couple years ago, if you haven't already.

Since you know OM, you may want to consider (don't rush out and do this yet) sending him an email informing him you love your wife and family, you had no idea about their relationship, you are not nor have ever been separated from your wife nor do you have any intention of leaving. The biggest problem right now in your marriage is HIM and ask him to back off.

Sure it will make her angry...but your marriage can survive anger. An on-going affair...not so much.

Mr. Wondering

and his response

ok, what is your plan, Have?

kids are 11,8,6,3

adding to sig

Don't leave your home - or did you MISS that thread?

Well, it was pretty much whats in that msg. To move out (use the keylogger in the meantime) and then trust them if nothing else seemed inappropriate.

Now. I'm leaning towards not moving out which was my first instinct.

Turst them.....................LOL