DM, you seem to have the same problem I have...desperate hopelessness, looking for that magic bullet.

Read my threads, they helped me and I was thinking exactly the same way you are just 1-2 weeks ago.

Pay special attention to Marks reply early on and the Wonderings a little later.

I'm sorry DM!! TMTS is right-read his threads. Mr/Mrs W and Mark among others have great advice. You can only control what you do...not what she does.

(((((((((DM)))))))))

I know you've benn following them, but go back and read them again man! It helps me when I hit the bottom of the ride.

One day at a time my man!

This is a marathon, not a sprint! Stop looking for everything to turn around overnight. This will take time!

Stop trying to use words to convince her. Show her how you are changing and leading a better life now.

"This is a marathon, not a sprint! Stop looking for everything to turn around overnight. This will take time!" MM gave you good counsel.

Thank you all for being here and trying to help.

TMTS, I am back on your thread(s). There IS a lot of great advice there and I'm learning a lot. It's just that I feel I could've used it 2 months ago. To be honest, I wish I could go back to being in your shoes when my WW still felt unsure and I had time to really do plan A. I know it doesn't feel this way, but you're still very fortunate that she hasn't left the house yet. But also, you seem to be in a good position for plan B if it comes down to it. I keep reading these posts and thinking "great... it's too late for that." For example in your thread about making it clear that you and your WW will not be friends if she leaves. My WW is gone and I'm still around, trying to talk to her and trying to meet her ENs. She's spent the past 2 months building this huge wall between us which makes things impossible. She basically did her own plan B on me while she went through her A withdrawls and conjured up her justifications. As far as she's concerned, we're already divorced now, but without the paperwork.

You guys are right though, this isnt a sprint. It's just discouraging when things keep getting worse. A huge problem is that she's not letting me meet her ENs. She won't let me get near her. I feel like I'm playing a game of chess by myself and losing.

There are a lot of similar stories, but I haven't found one specific to my situation.. mainly because it feels so late for me. I think I need to come up with a customized plan for now because it's not doing much good contacting her everyday and trying to meet her ENs. I think I need to pull back and wait for her to make contact, but who knows if she will? Something needs to change to atleast bring up some curiosity out of her. If she does contact me, I can slowly plan A. If anyone has a better suggestion, I'm all ears. Please be specific because I suck at this!

and sorry for being so down and hopeless. Somedays I see a light at the end of the tunnel and somedays are pitch black.

I feel for you, it would help if the light helped to dissipate the fog a little. I get those days too.
Hang in there

I had to take a break for a few days only to find out I have a new situation. I got to see WW yesterday when she came to get some things from the garage. I thought the conversation was going well, no LBs, very cordial. I'm going out of town with some friends, so I asked her what her plans were since both of our employers are closed next week. She told me she was going to Vegas for a few days, I asked her who she's going with and she dropped another bomb on me. She told me a few weeks ago that she started dating someone, but from what I knew there were no sparks there. I believed it was just a distraction from all that's happened and that it would die out. Now I think she's started sleeping with this person because she wouldn't give me a straight answer about it. I asked her if he knew that she was still married and she said yes. I said I thought it was a bit early for that, but she said that's not my decision to make. I told her I knew that and tried not to show that it bothered me too much, but it felt like another knife in my heart.

We got into another talk about our relationship.
It was all the same stuff. She doesn't want to be with me anymore, she brought up every bad thing in our marriage, but doesn't acknowledge any of the good. She's also very upset that most of our friends have cut contact with her and she is not invited to anymore gatherings. This has been a sore subject from the beginning. I told her that our friends miss her, but she no longer see's them as friends and doesn't want to go back to that life. She's discovered that she can have a new life now. Her new life consists of an old coworker friend whom she never really cared for much, her older sister and their kids and now this new guy. When we were together we had a huge circle of friends all of whom we considered to be like family, but since we split up most of them have come to stand by me. It was their own decision. I never asked for it, but WW thinks i have turned them against her.

Anyway, I just kept telling her that I loved her and I apologized for the things that she complained about. I said that I've done a lot of research and there are thousands of people going through our exact situation, feeling what she and I are both feeling and were able to make it work again. That we can fall in love again and be happier than ever. I realize I can't convince her with words, but I had to try. She say's she doesn't see that or want that anymore. It might change or it might not. She wants a divorce, but again she's not 100% sure.

I had decided and planned to continue with Plan A when I return from my trip. She agreed to have dinner with me when I got back and I was hoping I could get her to agree to doing more things. But now I'm afraid of what's developing with this new OM. She's not going to be thinking much about us and our possibilities with him around. I think she'll probably latch on to this guy since there aren't many other people in her life now.

It looks like this might be the end and it's time to start living a new life of my own.

I would check with the OM's wife and make sure it isn't HIM that your wife is meeting in Las Vegas.

Hi believer,
It isn't the first OM. I know for sure that's completely over even though WW is still going through some withdrawls from it. I also know OMW would never let him go anywhere on his own right now. My WW just decided that she's not in love with me anymore and doesn't want to be with me, so she's out trying to find someone else. We've been together since I was 17 and she was 15, so she's never been without me. I think she needs someone to fill that void. In many ways it seems like she's going through a midlife crisis. She also has a younger friend who was engaged for 2 years, but recently had a EA with someone and broke off her engagement to be with him. Her and my WW are feeding off each other right now and giving each other support. I heard they are going on this vegas trip as well. What a great combination.

DrowningMan:

I'll give you a couple pieces of advice. First---you won't be ready for 'dating' or a relationship of at least a year. Probably two.

Second---if that's the case, you might as well think of this as a year long strategy to try to get your wife back. She's a mess right now, and it has nothing to do with you. Let her burn out on her own. If you can handle plan A right now---do it. Keep it light. Have your own life (but include no opposite sex friends).

You'll give up when you don't care any more. But you're quite a ways from that.

[edited for homonym abuse]

Thanks for the advice, K

I agree, I'm not ready for dating yet and far from starting a new relationship with someone. My goal is to get my marriage back. I personally dont think WW should be ready either, but i can't control what she does. If I object, I'm sure it will just drive her to him even more. How long do these types of relationships last? She said in the beginning that he's far from being the "One" and that there aren't any "sparks" between them, but now she says that she likes him. I'm worried that he's going to grow on her and she'll form an attachment.

I'm going to continue plan A for awhile, but i need to start living a life thats not consumed by this. She agreed to take me to the airport tomorrow, so i'll have a little time to see her before I leave. I'm not sure if asking her to take me to the airport was a good idea, but she said that she would. I was going to give her a card and a little gift.

I dunno... it seems your WW has decided that she's no longer interested in being with you, and is pursuing any other opportunity for a relationship. It seems to me that Plan B might more applicable here.

Can you help me out and explain why plan B would be the better option? I'm torn on this now.

On one hand, I have been doing plan A. It's re-opened communication with her and we're able to talk and see each other more. This is something I desperately wanted.

On the other hand, I do feel like a doormat. I'm letting her keep her things in my garage since she doesn't have room to store it at her F's house. She comes and goes as she pleases like its a storage facility. She is off seeing this new person, is going to vegas with him knowing that my hands are tied. She actually asked the other day if she could come get our video game system. She was the one who purchased it, but she admitted that she was going to take it to his house. I agreed at the time, but the thought of them playing our games that we previously enjoyed together doesnt sit well. Especially, since i bought alot of the accessories and games for it. I also just paid for our car insurance, but she put me on her health insurance policy at her new job. She plans to work out the cost with me from the money that she already owes me.

Not sure what this situation calls for. Do I wait it out and see what happens with this OM while in plan A or make a stand for myself and go into plan B? Any more opinions?

I think I would go to Plan B. It is usually not suggested this soon, but with an affair and now dating, you are liable to lose your love for her.

If your marriage was good before, she will remember those days.

I will be honest, I don't think I'm ready for plan B yet, but if this is the right thing to do I will need help.
If I do plan B, won't that make her hold tightly to what she has left (OM2)? I have only beed doing plan A for a few weeks and it hasn't been very good yet. I know my story is a mess and so am I. I need to get off this ride, but also need to be clear on what I'm doing. Should I tell her not to take me to the airport today or should I have her take me and ask her to start thinking of her own place to store her things because I can't sit around and watch her develope another A.

Well, first you are going to make yourself NOT a mess. You need to go into Plan B feeling confident and secure so that you can stay very dark.

So start planning for that now. Think of anything that she will need to contact you about, and start taking precautions so it won't be an issue.

Let her take you to the airport, and be pleasant and calm.

DrowningMan:

The genesis of Plan A and Plan B:

Plan A is to fight an active affair. It's an attempt to negotiate the WS from the affair through careful, thoughtful practices. While it can include an aspect of correction of harmful marital behavior (elimination of lovebusters, meeting important unmet needs)---it's not meant as a 'forever' tactic.

Having said that, Plan A is also easier (in general) to do when separated. If you've exhibited behavior that you feel needs fixing, then this is a great time to exhibit it to your spouse. It demonstrates that you can make difficult changes under very trying circumstances. Your normal top-end limit is about 6 months in Plan A---too much and the WS will get used to the 'cake eating' aspect that comes when more than one person is meeting their needs.

Signs to move out of Plan A is when you're getting very angry, very depressed, or when you begin to feel your love slipping away.

Plan B is the no-contact phase of the MB affair-busting philosophy. You start out with a Plan B letter, and you deliver this and then have no contact whatsoever with your spouse. The letter states your love for her, your demonstration of Plan A behaviors (in a personal way), and your willingness to work on reconciliation once the affair is ended. It shouldn't have any demands in it---the terms for reconciliation should be negotiated (with a Harley as an intermediary, preferrably), when the affair is over.

I would try NOT to use Plan B as a reaction to something your WS is doing (directly)---like if she runs off to OM, you don't tell her "if you go, I'm going straight to Plan B". If she is doing very harmful things to your lovebank, you need to make a statement at some point that says---these things you do hurt me, and they're killing my love for you. So, until you end the affair---I can no longer have any contact with you (the 'Plan B letter, short form')

So, if you're not ready for Plan B yet, then you're not ready. But you should think about getting the letter prepared, as well as how to handle any joint issues through an intermediary.

Thanks, K.

Since my WW is dating a new person, should I be treating it as another A? In my eyes it most definitely is, but i don't think she see's it that way since we are separated and she is talking about D. Do I mention anything about it? Or do I ignore the fact that she is probably sleeping with this guy and continue trying to meet her ENs? This is a tough question, isn't it? If she tells me that she is seeing someone else and I continue trying to meet her ENs, what kind of message am I sending her? That I'm okay with it and she can do whatever she wants? I do feel that I need to continue plan A longer before going to plan B, but how do i handle this situation? It's twisting my brain and I feel like a fool....

Well, I think the affair(s) are a symptom of what's going on with your wife. You could, for example, ask her to date you instead of OM#2. When discussing divorce, just let her know that you really don't want one, and would prefer to work on the marriage. Would you like her to come home? Then ask her. You certainly do not tell her that it's OK to date or sleep with other men. You ask her not to, and attempt to negotiate around it. But you have no ability to 'force' her, and you can't do your negotiation with lovebusters. It's a real PITA.

How was the marriage up until the affairs? Were you responsible for any major lovebusters? If you were, have you addressed them. If you weren't meeting her top needs, do you have the opportunity to do so now? These are the kinds of questions you have to ask yourself.

If you've done a pretty good job in the marriage, and there aren't any real issues that you can address in Plan A---then if you're comfortable with the idea of no contact, it would be a decent time to move to Plan B.