OH LAWD....CAN I GET A WITNESS!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sing it, brother Too much! You GO boy! And DM, I'm with him 100%...no more sitting around being sad. Time to live your life again. Hand her the PBL and party like it's 1999! No women till after the D (if it comes to that), but you have been here long enough and have learned enough that you can walk away from this sitch a whole different (new and improved) man. Tell me how fast she'll come runnin' back, brothas and sistas! Um, not that you'll even still want her back at that point. I'm jes sayin...

You can do this DM!

That'll preach!

DM,

When do you talk to Jennifer next? I'd tell her you are pretty much done and it's time to stick the fork in ya...Get your PBL ready, get your poop grouped and see if Jennifer still tells you to do more Plan A or if she agrees to go to Plan B now before you are burned out totally.

Serious case of chronic cranial rectumitis, that one...I think the cure for that is a size 12 or so...

Mark

I agree with you on many points. I'm just scared to death of making the wrong move. I see why Jennifer wants me to plan A because I didn't do it in the months of chaos after DDay. She went through a lot of pain and guilt for what she did, but couldnt stop the addiction. I kept pushing her away and LBing her while that POS OM was being loving and caring. I was devestated and punishing her. It was mostly unintentional and I didn't know I was still competing with the A. That's why I've been spending the past month and half trying to make up for it. I thought the fact that she told MC to keep our file open is a good sign that she's having a conflict and is thinking about coming back. She only told me about it because I asked.

But on the other hand, I think my plan A is just enabling her to continue seeing OM2 and is the reason why it's gone so far. Why come back if there are no consequences? I don't think she is in love with the guy, but who knows if he continues to meet her needs? She started seeing him barely a month after deciding not to reconcile and while she was still going through WD. She was using him as a bandaid to cover the pain, but I don't know what it is now.

As far as being in love with her, I still am very much because I see her as being lost. What happened after dday was a complete cluster @#%$#%. She created this thick fog for herself and took a wrong turn in it. Atleast that's the way I see it and it's why I'm still here. Am I just being delusional? Am I really just the fool that all my friends probably see me as?

I realize that I didn't meet her most important EN, but I still believe our marriage was very good. So does everyone else who knows us. I just wish she would stop running away for a second and realize it too. This OM2 situation is doing a lot of damage. I haven't lost all my feelings for her yet, but I'm getting drained and I'm starting to fear what would happen if we did go into R. MB has been both a blessing and a curse for me because of the things that I've learned. If I didn't understand why everything happened and what she must be going through, I'd be long gone.

Emotionally, I'm still on a rollercoaster, but I'm doing a lot better. You only see the downside because thats usually when I'm on here. I go out almost everynight with my friends. I'm rarely sitting at home thinking about it, but it follows me everywhere. I am sure that I'll need to go to plan B, but it's the timing that I'm worried about. I don't know if plan A is long enough or how/if it's affected her. WW is also going to be gone on business a lot next month, so she might not even notice plan B. Jennifer wants me to keep writing letters and call her back in 2 more weeks to re-evaluate. I'm not sure if I can write any more letters though.

I know my sitch is bad. I feel like it's the messiest one on here and I don't blame you if you don't know what advice to give. I just really appreciate you being here. Its the only place I can come where people really understand. Thanks for reading and the all the support. I'm going to start writing my PBL now, so I can have it ready. At this point im even contemplating plan D to try to shake her loose.

Sorry this was so long. I could go on for days, but I'll spare you from having to hear anymore of this nightmare.

DM

Oh, please, don't spare us, DM. That's what we are HERE FOR, silly!

I hear where you are coming from, but most people would react to an A the way you did at first. You have to stop beating yourself up over that. None of it gives her the right to do what she is doing now.

It may be true that too much damage was done to repair it now. But then again, maybe not! Try to write her one more letter. Tell her that you are becoming drained because you love her and want her to stop disrespecing you by being with other men while she is still married to you. Tell her you want her to come home. That you will not wait forever and that soon the decision may be made for her. As long as she thinks she is holding all the cards, she has no motivation to change. Don't be afraid to speak your truth, DM. Tell her you would love the chance to show her how much your cherish your M and how beautiful you think she is. Really let it all out. Put it here b4 you give it to her if you want feedback (and it's not too personal for you).

It's good to hear that you are getting out with your buddies and hanging out. While I'm sure it weighs on your mind no matter what you are doing, it would be much worse if you were just sitting at home agonizing over it, ya know!

I would try Plan B before Plan D, even if it is just for a couple months. Your sitch is not the "messiest" one on here by far (try adding four children) and as long as you continue to post and read here, you'll be OK, DM, no matter WHAT happens!

Chin up, buddy...you da man!

Hey DM,

You sound like your doing allot of what I am. analyzing everything and putting your feelings out here for us to see. I feel better about you now that you have shared that with us. That takes care of your mental state.

does not change the fact that you have the queen of cake eaters on your hands and you recongnize yourself that she has no consequensces. Get ready for your plan B man, I think we'll be going there at about the same time, so lets make a deal and share on this. You seem to be a emotions on your sleeves type person (Much like myself) so I think we can hold each other up.

NEVER feel bad about putting down your thoufghts and feelings here. If you need to go one for days then do it. (Write chaptersthough, makes it easier to comment on specific things) but man, tell me if there is anywhere you can turn that support what you are trying to do? Friend, family might tell you they do, but don't really understand.
We are here for you my friend, so don't feel bad.

Hey DM..

Seeing as you and I are in the same boat, I can't give you much in the way of advice.....Only this..It's been said here that you can't control her, only yourself.. Your cake eater wife is hurting you beyond your wildest nightmare, so get rid of that pain....don't give her the pleasure of your company.

I feel for you my friend...I've not spoken to my WS in over 2 weeks now, if she calls it's to talk to the kids, not me. Hurts like ******. But I feel better in that I'm not jumping through hoops anymore. Read the story of the gerbil Sdguy put on my thread a week or so back....it will give you a lot of insight.


Since I haven't gone to the trouble of calling her, I feel a lot better.....bad days and good, today's a bad day, but things are getting better.....

Keep your chin up!

Ron

I was just about to post something completely different, but I just got a surprise call from WW asking me if I'm dating someone. Somehow it got around to her that I met that woman and exchanged numbers, but what WW heard was that I'm now dating her. I told her that I did meet someone, but I'm not dating because it's not what I wanted. But I did let her know that i've been thinking about it and the possibility was there since she has no interest in fixing our marriage. I asked what her concern was when she seems to be in a full blown relationship with OM2. She actually denied that it was a relationship and they were still just dating. I don't know what she thinks the difference is, especially when she's sleeping at his house. Then she says that atleast she had told me she was dating someone (as if that made anything better). All of a sudden I feel like I'm dealing with some high school girl and she's playing games with me.

I reiterated to her that I want to work on our marriage and if things don't work out, there will be plenty of time to date other people after we get a divorce. She was pretty quiet after that, so I just told her that I loved her and asked her to come home. All she could say was, "I don't know." She was about to get off the phone, but I asked how things were going with her and we ended up having a decent conversation for awhile. I also asked if she wanted to get together sometime, but she just said "I don't know" again and that she's going to be very busy with work.

Atleast I know that she still has a pulse and she actually showed some interest in what im doing. I'm wondering if I should've let her believe that i'm dating or if I should somehow get her suspicions going before I go to plan B.

Uh-huh...stop buying into her balogna about not caring. She doesn't care...as long as SHE'S holding all the cards, yanno! Once you start being happy and upbeat...the guy to be with...she will take notice. As you saw tonight. I think you need to be very aloof, and then in her moments of weakness or indecision, say..."I cannot wait forever while you continue to hurt me."

It is a fine line. You must give her a way home without looking desperate and needy. Mr. Joe Cool is your new name! (sorry TMTS-you'll have to share!) and YOU are the man she needs. You must believe this 100% to make it work.

So, what's your plan?

MR. Joe Cool,

I'm with Lala here buddy. This is the line she keeps feeding you; all she's doing is changing the bait she's using just to see what will make you bite. You've told her over and over again how much you love her and want her home, so this is not doing anything for you anymore. She need to believe that you are ready to move on (we know your not but she doesn't). She also needs to hear about how much fun you’re having on your own, that'll drive her nuts.

Does she still have her stuff stored there? That needs to go ASAP as step one that you are moving on. Then you start thinking Plan B.

Take care man.

She still has some stuff in the garage and our storage unit, but she hasn't come by the house in over a month. I think she's already taken most of what she needs. I was thinking of moving all her things from the garage to storage and taking my stuff home. That way when I go to plan B, I could tell her where all her things are. Everything's boxed up in the garage anway. The storage unit has her wedding dress, a huge bin full of pictures from the last 15 years as well as wedding memorabilia and some wedding gifts we haven't used yet. We were going to wait until we finished remodeling the house to use them.

This part worries me... I was just reading Ron43's sitch and saw that jennifer advised him to stay in Plan A a little longer. I have a feeling that she's going to give me the same advice. We didn't talk much about either plans during our session, but she was pretty much against plan B. I dont know what I'll do if she tells me to stay in plan A. I think I'm done and I can't continue enabling her to see this guy.

Had another chat with WW today. We weren't talking about much, I just wanted to set her up so I can tell her that times running out. I told her I'm thinking of going on vacation. We used to travel a lot together, so I started naming some places that we had planned to visit before everything happened. Japan was top on our list, so I asked if she'd want to go with me. I knew she was going to turn me down.

So I told her, "I can't do this forever."
She said she knows and she's not asking me to.

I said, "im doing this by choice because we're married and you're still my wife. I dont want to date other people. If this guy you are seeing really means more to you than I do, let me know and I'll be on my way."

She didn't say anything, so I continued.

"It's going to take a lot of work to fix our marriage, but I know it can be done. But the longer this goes on, the harder it will be and it's killing our chances"

Then I asked if she really thought our marriage was THAT BAD.

She still wouldn't say anything and I didn't want to give her a chance to come up with some fog babble, so I told her to just think about it and she said, "Ok."
Then I left and went to lunch.

I dont know if that was part of the plan or not, but I think I need a new one. I'm tired of playing a victim and the whole doormat thing. This feels a lot better. We'll see what happens.

Hey DM, I'm pretty tired tonight, but I wanted to drop in and see how you were doing.

There's nothing wrong with you stating the way all of this makes you feel. At least she didn't come at you with the fog babble. Tell me this...how is Plan A going? It doesn't seem like she's giving you much of a chance to even approach her at this point. I can't remember...have you spoken to the Harley's? Seems like you did at one point. I would give them a call and see what they think about what you should do.

When you first started posting, she was very distant and would barely speak to you. It seems that things have not changed too much. I know I said this b4, but call the Harleys first and work through your ideas for when to go to Plan B. From the sounds of the call yesterday, she does care more than she is willing to admit, but the only time it bothers her is if she hears something through the grapevine about your social life. So, with that in mind, if you go dark Plan B, she may get pretty rattled by it and start trying to come around again. If you give her your PBL stating what it will take for you to give your M another chance, she may realize how serious you are and start to have a change of heart. It may take a while, but at least you won't be waiting for her to call, or when you should call her, or trying to Plan A her from a distance. It will probably also give you a better perspective on what you want to do in regards to the M if she does come back to you.

What do you think?

Hey LaLa,
Thanks for stopping by. To be honest, she hasn't given me much fog babble in awhile. The problem is, she doesn't say anything at all. She has a huge issue with communicating how she feels and she's extremely closed off. She doesn't talk to anyone about this stuff, not her friends and not even her sister now. No one knows what she's thinking.

As for plan A, I don't think it's doing me much good. In fact, I think it's causing more harm. I don't know, maybe it's the way I'm going about it, but she seems to have lost all respect for me. I lost respect for myself in the process, so I think I'm done with it. I see how it would've helped after dday and the situation with the first A. In fact I'm sure we'd still be together had I found MB in time, but this is totally different now. I should've went to plan B as soon as she started dating, but instead I sat here telling her how much I love her. Meanwhile, she was throwing herself into a relationship with the first guy she met. I still don't think she loves him, but she probably respects him more than she does me. I hope it's not too late to change that.

I had one session with Jennifer and we spent most of it talking about writing the letters to WW. She didn't say much about plan A or plan B, but she advised against plan B because of the risks. I'm going to call her about plan B again, but I have a feeling she'll tell me not to do it. .

I feel like I've made a lot of progress this week. It's getting easier to deal with the pain. I still want to do whatever it takes to get control of this situation. I just don't know what that is yet.

I'm preparing for plan B and working on my pbl, but I'm doubting the affect it will have on WW. She seems to be fine with not seeing or talking to me. We talk atleast every other day, but only because I contact her and it's usually on IM or text. She rarely calls and doesn't like talking to me on the phone much. That is if she even answers because she's always with OM2. Should I not be contacting her?

To give u an idea of what's going on with her..

I asked her if she ever misses me and our life together and she says, "of course."

me: "why don't you come home then. We have been through h3ll and need to make things right."

ww: I still need more time. I don't want to rush into anything

I said we don't have to "rush" into it, but we should atleast do SOMETHING.

Then she asked if we could talk about it when she get's back from her business trip to "decide" what to do.

She's leaving on wed and she'll be gone for 10 days. By then it'll be a month since I've seen her. So I said ok and told her I would cook dinner if she wants to come to the house. She said, "yes" and seemed happy about that.

I know when the time comes she's not going to decide anything and will avoid the talk or tell me something I don't want to hear. Then she'll probably avoid seeing me for another month while she continues this [email]cr@p[/email] with OM2.

Her cake eating is driving me insane, but I feel like it's my fault because I'm hand feeding it to her. She doesn't come to me for anything and turns me down when I invite her out. She has me right where she wants me. I'm still here and she knows it, but she's not doing anything to come back. Is it time for plan B? I need some advice or encouragement.

You know how I feel already...Plan B. Totally dark. Give her the PBL at dinner when (if) she comes after she gets back.

It doesn't really matter if she cares at first or if you don't get a reaction from her (she doesn't beg for you to talk to her or come back). Plan B is for you to stop worrying about trying to Plan A her and wondering what she's doing, etc. You can move on with your life...period. It is supposed to give you peace and time to heal from all the pain that has been afflicted by her A(s).

So, it really doesn't matter how she reacts...you are doing this for YOU! But I would be prepared for her to protest after a while, because she likes having you where she wants you-home wishing she would come back. Once she sees this isn't happening, she may start trying to contact you (you know, like she did when she thought you had exchanged numbers with another woman!). You must at least be prepared for it so that you do not get sucked in by it. If you cave at the first sign of protest, it sends a clear, strong message that you are not serious and are trying to manipulate her. You MUST stay dark no matter what, that is until the conditions of the PBL are met.

Her cake eating is driving you insane...Plan B will remove you from the insanity! You can do this!!

lala, I agree with you that it needs to be done. I'm trying to prepare myself for this. How do I get myself ready because my plan A has only been 2 months? She'll be back in 2 weeks, so I'm going to get everything taken care of(move her stuff to storage, get an intermediary, pbl, etc,,). I'll try to get my next appt in with jennifer. I hope she'll back me up on this too.

I thought I was doing better, but I feel like my hearts being twisted and crushed in a vice again. The pain is intense today and it's been growing since lastnight. I'm trying to stay off my IM account today, but all I can think about is talking to her. I can't believe she's doing this. Four months ago, she was telling me how much I meant to her and how she'll do anything to fix us. Now she's doing the complete opposite and throwing away our life for someone she barely knows. What's wrong with her??

I would be interested to see what Jennifer says, too. Make sure you are totally honest with her about the way you are feeling. I know she told you to write letters, and I know of one that you wrote. Maybe since it will take a couple weeks to talk to Jen and get PBL done and all that-make sure you write her a couple more letters like Jen suggested. That way, at least you are following her advice from the last session. She seems to be worried, as I have been, that because you actually started in Plan FU, and then she moved out and has kept you at a distance for quite some time now, you may have a little more work on your end to show you've changed. I am not judging you, I think MOST people would react that way at first! This is a tough sitch, DM.

The reason I am telling you Plan B is because she seems to not care one bit unless she feels you pull away, plus the fact that you are going crazy trying to Plan A someone who won't even let you in their space and is on to OM#2. So, talk to Jen, see what she says. But like I said, write a couple more letters and make sure you have done your "to do list" from the last session.

You have a lot of friends and can keep yourself busy most of the time. Try not to sit around and dwell, as it only brings you pain. I know-easier said than done, but...I hate to see you so down!

(((((((DM))))))))

Lala,

I've written 2 letters so far. Jennifer said to write her once a week, so I woouldn't be smothering her. I'll try write another one, but I think I've already said everything I was supposed to. I know this is a tough sitch. No ones been able to give me a straight answer on how to handle it. I feel like I have to do something drastic before she goes too far.

I've been thinking about this and isn't plan B going to be exactly what she wants? She already doesn't care to see me and she wants more time to spend with that pos while she "figures" things out. I dont know. It seems like she'll be happy to read my pbl and to learn that I'm stepping aside, but I'll still be here to work on our marriage if she decides to come back.

Maybe I should do plan D with a dark plan B on top of it.

Plan B isn't really about her. Its about you removing yourself from her abuse and learning to live without her. Its also about establishing boundaries and letting her know what would be required of her should she decide to try to recover the M.

It may be exactly what she wants, or what she says she wants, but your goal in life is not to go against her every wish. The fact that you are doing what you think she might want does not mean you shouldn't do it. You are doing it for very different reasons. It might take a few weeks for her to realize that this time, its different. This time you aren't going to be there clinging to the scraps she tries to throw you.

Only you know if YOU are ready to remove yourself from the situation. I can't imagine why you woudln't be though.

EXACTLY! That's what I've been trying to tell you...if NOTHING you do is helping, then do SOMETHING to help yourself. Plan B for a while, if nothing changes, Plan D is all that is really left.

The problem is she acts like she is free to date and do whatever she wants while still married to you. You are going cazy trying to Plan A her and watching her from a distance. You need to remove yourself from the pain of it and heal.