bumped for DM...from the 'other thread'....seeing that this seems to be your 'main thread':



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I'm getting prepared for plan B, but I'm worried about the timing right now, so i'm not pulling the trigger yet. She is traveling for work most of this month and in my opinion will barely be around to even notice plan B. I'm going to use this time to prepare and tie up some loose ends. Atleast, it's making things easier on me while she's gone because I know she isn't with OM.

Meanwhile, I'm also trying to do some damage control regarding her current image of me. She thinks I'm sitting at home waiting for her to come back, so I need to let her see that I'm capable of living without her. I don't want her last image of me being hurt and in pain when I go dark on her. Does that make sense?


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It certainly does....

As Orchid says...your heart and mind need to be in sync to go into PLAN B....seeing that YOU will be responsible for executing it... and you need to be strong and ready for PLAN B.... because it does involve your own WITHDRAWAL from WS... ...so...expect to have to resist...finding excuses to contact your WS.... or cave-in to her attempts at breaking PLAN B!

....then maybe...when you no longer are feeling like you are 'drowning', you might want to consider a name change... that will match your NEW life!

Thanks again, Luna. You're right, my heart and mind are not in synch yet. I don't want to jump into plan B unprepared... But then again.. the way things are going right now, I might be headed there sooner than I thought.

LaLa..TMTS,
I hear you loud and clear. She'll never see my weak side again. I realize that's what got me into this mess. She saw how broken I was for months after DDay. Who knows how many times she saw me break down. Then she said she didn't want to work things out anymore. She basically kicked me when I was down. Was that really her or was that fog? I've been angry thinking about that all day. Does that mean I'm losing my love for her?

This is starting to feel like war. I haven't tried to contact her since thursday. She texted me on Sat. and we have both been signed on today, but not saying a word to each other. It's like some weird stand off to see who cracks first and sends a message. She finally cracked first.

She started telling me how stressed out she was. I guess her trip isn't going all that smoothly. I was being supportive and giving advice. Then she said she had to go and signed off. Again, this is how it always goes and it's all we ever talk about it. She never once asks me how im doing or anything about me for that matter. Is this normal for a WS or is my WW more self-centered than average? Or am I just overreacting?

Seems like she keeps testing me. As soon as i act a bit concerned or show her an ounce of care, she's gone. What should I do? Don't respond or talk to her anymore?

I wish someone could explain what is going through her head.

I'm kind of feeling plan FU right now.

... but at the same time, i feel bad for her. I have to remember she's in a fog, right?

Right.

You do exactly what you just did. She intiated contact, you plan A her [censored], she logs off, you do someting else.

She's so used to you chaching her that this is what she expects.

Now what do you do if she starts up R or A talk?
What if she fog babbles?

ABSOLUTELY!! When in the fog, during and even after the A ends, waywards care only about themselves..I know I did. I was terrible. W2S was dying inside and it was all about ME! Ugh. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Refresh my memory.. of what I'm doing. Since she's so used to me chasing her, shouldn't I NOT be plan Aing? Shouldn't I give the illusion that she's losing me?

I have no idea what i'll do if she brings up R or A talk. I'm so used to telling her "we can get through this and work it out, be happier than ever, etc.." and only hearing "I need time" from her that I'd probably look like a deer in headlights.

Honestly, I don't think she'll EVER bring up R or A talk. That would require her to talk about her feelings and that is the hardest thing for her to do.

I'm not kidding when I say all we talk about is her work at her new job... ok, and sometimes we talk about the Lakers because we were huge fans. We have season tickets, but that's IT.


LaLa,
I can only hope that she'd become half the FWW that you are, if you know what I mean. I'm sure that's the weirdest compliment you ever got, but it really says a lot about you. For her to admit that she was wrong is virtually impossible. She is the most stubborn and prideful (if that's word) person I know! She even said that in MC when we were going. When MC asked why it's so hard for her to talk about her feelings, she said it's because she can't admit that she's wrong. Well, atleast she admitted that part, so maybe there's some hope? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

DM,

So talk about work and talk about the game...and if you already have tickets, take her to a game...

Recovery=Trying to fix what's broke so it doesn't happen again
Plan A=Trying to save the marriage so there's something to fix.

Don't confuse the two.

You have to do the later before you can attempt the former. If you try to do both at once, you will do neither.

Mark

DM,

It sounds like she won't bring up R and A talk to you. It sounds like something you do.

Don't bring it up.

Seriously, appear to be moving on. Don't answer her texts. What would have happened if you hadn't answered her text message? She'd be like, "Hmm, wonder what's going on? He's not stroking my ego like he normally does."

So then she might call. Instead of sounding like the puppy happy to hear the master call his name, you answer the phone, and speak to her very neutrally.

She calls to talk, you say, "Hey, I'm in the middle of something, can we talk later?"

She wants to talk more, you say, "Gotta run!"

Or, alternatively, "I've got company over, can we talk later?"

"I have to do laundry."

"Can't talk right now. I feel a tremor in the Force."

Come up with something. You don't have this woman wondering anything about you. She doesn't get the idea of you moving on.

You fake it till you make it. You have to do this.

Believe me, I know how hard it is. You want info right away. You ache inside wanting to hear from her and wanting to see that she sees the light. You don't want her to think you're an ogre or a bad guy.

It's tough. But you need to take control of the situation. You can't control her thoughts, but you can control your own actions and how you let her treat you.

I need to find the 180 for you. Do a search for it here. Execute it.

You need to withdraw your contributions to her ego. She'll miss them when they're gone.

Here is the 180. It's a guide, not hard and fast rules. But it works!

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.
23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

DM,

I apologize for this threadjack, but here goes.

Lala,

You in touch with L? I'd like to email him if possible.

TJ over.

Thanks DM.

No TJ Taken!

An interesting thing just happened. WW just called me. She's still on her trip, but she's driving somewhere that's about 2 hours from her hotel. It's an area that we've visited together and she called to tell me she was passing by the resaurant we ate at. The rest of the conversation was about work. This time, she was acting cheery and I kept my voice pretty neutral.

I was going to say I had to go, but she beat me to it because her other phone rang.

This is good proof that you're still lurking in her heart somewhere and that she sees you as a safety net.

Making her feel that the safety net is slipping will be effective.

Sound distracted when she calls, as if you're doing something else you'd rather pay attention to than talk to her.

Or ask her the obvious question, "What am I supposed to think about that?"

No raising your voice. Just a question of confusion that she's calling to tell you about something that doesn't make sense to you to be calling you about.

Put it this way, how would you react if an ex from a long time ago called you up and told you she was near one of your old hang outs and was thinking of you?

You would probably react like "Okaaaay. Well that's nice. Drive safe! Gotta run!"

That would have been a perfect response.

Don't just take my word for it, though. Others can chime in.

DM, thank you for that! I get pretty down on myself for what happened these days, so things like that really help!!!

Oh, and I don't know a THING about being stubborn (har har)! My DH swears there is noone more stubborn than me, so don't let that discourage you.

Mark and Pom are giving you great advice...print that list Pom gave you and go over it several times a day. Memorize it!!! I told you...you've got things to do, places to go, people to see!! Busy, busy, busy!! Don't be mean, just distant. Cool, not cold. Whenever you have doubts, remember the one time she sure called you asking questions...remember...when she thought you exchanged phone numbers with another woman while out with your friends. This is perfect, because you obviously have people out there who will pass "just enough" info to her to get her wondering. You job is to KEEP her wondering...NOT to make her feel better!!

Pom...just saw your question. Give me a few minutes, k! I'll get back to ya!

Let Justuss know you're willing to communicate with me and he'll pass on your email.

Thanks!

I'm having a tough time transitioning from my previous plan A (doormat) to this new approach. I'm not contacting her anymore, but she's contacting me.

It was a text on Saturday, a phone call yesterday and IM today. Seems like all she cares about is keeping her hooks in. As long as I respond, she's done talking to me and leaves. I feel like a @%#@$% fish. She throws me a crumb to see if i bite and walks away.

I'm trying to act indifferent, but I'm afraid of going too far with it. I don't want her to use it as an excuse and say, "see, he doesn't care."

My other concern is that it'll weaken the affect on her when I go to plan B. How much will she miss me if I go dark after weeks of indifference? I know... that's not the point of plan B, but I want to know I'm going in with the best possible chance of R. Right, I guess I'll never have that feeling.

This has gone on so long that I feel like I've just allowed us to die a slow a painful death. I should've gone to plan B in early Jan. when we went to dinner and she said missed me. I'd do it right now if she weren't traveling.

Someone said indifference is worse than hate and that's all I feel from her. I feel the need to start a conflict, crate some friction and put some life into this mess. I feel like giving her an ultimatum or telling her I'm filing for a D.

I look back and can't believe this is the same person that I've shared everything with for 15 years. We were like one person and now we can barely talk on the phone.
wtf is going on??

Dude, seriously, are you listening to anything we're saying?

She's sleeping with a second man. She kicks you in the nuts repeatedly and you keep coming back for more to get scraps.

You go a little quiet and she starts emailing you like crazy.

No amount of niceness is going to make her miss you.

Time for a plan B letter and darkness. It will help you heal.

You can't understand the power of the dark side! It is very liberating to get texts and emails and calls and be able to ignore them and see them for the crazyness that they are.

I use to respond with huge and long emails to my ex and it finally dawned on me that they were a waste of time.

You're a doormat and you're allowing yourself to be one.

You've plan A'd long enough and given her lots of good things to remember you by, but it is time to move on.

As Dr Phil would say, how's your current approach working out for you?

Hey DM,

Let me give you another scenario here. (Although I think Pom is on the money here). Think that maybe she has noticed your plan A and is now wondering why you've stopped chasing? Next time she calls, act like you have somewhere to go, now. Be very distracted. If she uses any other means to communicate, ignore it. Only do live talk and you choose when you are available. You are just too available, she knows it and calls you on it. That's fine, the problem is you never call her bluff.

Who knows, you may be getting to her. Where are you with the insurance? Have you made any decisions on that? I think that action alone would be a good wake up call for her, so long as you don't give her too much info on why. Again, act distant, just say it just seems like I should be taking care of this myself. Then say goodbye.

Dump her.....if she comes back, great! If not.....she's not worth S*&t.... You've done enough, taken enough, now it's time to give it allllll back.