Words mean nothing, DM. I heard similar stuff.

No changes. She's playing you like a puppeteer. You make progress, she throws you a scrap and you feel it's a big thing.

It isn't. These are empty words.

Sorry to tell you, brother, but you need to plan B until there is no contact for life with OM2. Do your Plan B letter.

It's time to tell her to sh*t or get off the pot. Have some self respect.

The situation has changed slightly - only that she isn't with OM2 anymore (so she says). But it's only the situation that has changed but not the problem. So yes - I think you should still go according to your plan.

The fact that the OM2 distraction could potentially be gone ...this is very ideal for her realizing everything you want her to. By giving her the cold shoulder...she will see it quicker and louder. All the more you should apply that method. Stick to the same plan.

Your ultimate goal is either to have her back and committed again. Until she is at your door with her bags, ready to move in and try life with you all over again - then that is the measure of accomplishment. Your other option is Plan D. So everything in between is just the grey area.

Again, keep in mind that the situation has changed but it offers no solution. Apply even more pressure as she is less destracted now, and she will hear it loud and clear.

You have to still ask - why is she still confused? Why not come home? The fact that she doesn't come running back is because she is possibly looking for something better than OM2. She is just weighing her options and waiting it out. This is totally normal.

Stick to your guns and still go according to your plans. It's a positive sign for her to drop OM2. But it's not the solution to reaching your goals. Stay focused and use this situation to your advantage.

best.

Um, EXCUSE ME? I would say there lies the root of the problem, DM. Everything she said was part of the wayward script...means nothing. Actions, not words. ACTIONS, NOT WORDS!!! But telling her that it's all up to her is NOT what you should have said. Why are you letting her run the show? Essentially dictate YOUR life? Do you realize that this is not an attractive quality to a woman? Women want men who can stand up for themselves and who will not be led around by the, ahem, nose. She does not see you as the BEST alternative because you are not ACTING like the best alternative. When I read your posts, it doesn't sound like YOU think you are the best alternative!!!

Come on, DM...come ON!!!!

STOP taking her calls, go Plan B. Now is the perfect time, due to her recent "break-up." She knows how you feel. She is the biggest problem, here, but you are not really helping at this point, either. And NO-it isn't time for "thinking outside of the MB box." Unless you want to just go to Plan D. The other alternative is letting her string you along, throwing you scraps, until you have absolutely no self-respect left. Then she probably still won't come home, because noone wants to be with someone who doesn't have any self-respect.

Look, I can't make you do anything, noone here can. It's up to you...either do what is proven to work- what human nature dictates, or make up the rules because you just can't live without her, and end up miserable indefinitely. Up to you.

PS--nothing about this sitch has changed, because YOU haven't changed! Therein lies the key!

Also keep in mind that her sensory stimulations (or ENs) are not being met now. She is looking to fulfill this asap as she is still going through her "newness of self".

She may even look for this in you by asking things that will still show her, or tell her that you still love and care for her. Don't give her this satisfaction! This is what she will do without being aware of it. This is a subconscious reaction. Be aware of this!

For example when she makes a comment about you having too much resentment. Don't tell her no. Just say something neutral.

Take this opportunity to show her some newness as well by showing her that different side of you that she hasn't seen. - The plan B side, cold shoulder or whatever you want to call it. Look busy and look like you've moved on. You can't find a better platform than now. Time is of the essence. You have a shot to fulfill her ENs. But if OM3 comes along - you're back where you started - even worse. So don't look weak and sad. Give her the impression that you are no longer willing to accomodate her at her time and choosing.

Trust me when I say that you cannot find a better opportunity to show her a new, independent side of you. You need to do this asap. Cause if an OM3 comes along - you need to be done with this whole excercise my friend.

Ok.. I'm still on course for plan B then.

Questions.. (get your 2x4s ready if you need to).

She's leaving for another work trip tomorrow and I doubt I'll be ready for plan B before she leaves. She'll be gone until the end of the month, so unless she meets an OM3 on her trip, that gives me time to get everything done.

So what should I do between now and then? She wanted to have dinner with me lastnight, but she didn't come right out and ask, so i didn't acknowledge it. If she does ask to see me before she leaves, should I go?

Like Heal said, she wants her ENs met right now. She's being nice and acting a lot more like W instead of WW. She's even giving me the whiney act because she got sick. I have to admit it's hard to resist. I haven't seen her in over a month and she hasn't acted like this in a long time.

Doesn't the book say I should Plan A to catch her when the A's over? I'm wondering if I should plan A her socks off right now (in a confident way) until she comes back from her trip then drop the hammer on plan B.

Also, any thoughts on how to write a pbl when there's no A going on?

Yeah, I know... I'm still confused and haven't had my coffee. Please spell it out to me like im five.

Plan B letter.

Look, Plan B may only last one day, but she is giving you scraps.

It's "let me get attention from him until OM3 shows up. I'll then start scr**ing him instead."

We're giving you the answers. Cold shoulder.

You have other dinner plans. You're meeting friends for dinner.

You have to shine your shoes and can't go to dinner.

Your lint collection needs updating.

You need to shave your armpits.

Something other than you sitting there like a lap dog waiting for her to throw you a scrap of affection.

This is why she doesn't respect you.

This woman has screwed two men while married to you and you're worried that not going to dinner with her will somehow be damaging? Come on!

Show her you deserve respect.

Cold shoulder. Don't answer calls or texts. Give her a Plan B letter and separate yourself from this woman who is obviously messed up.

Take care of YOU!

Remember, you can't go to dinner because:

You need to clean your toes.

You have to trim your ear hair.

There is a special on basket weaving on TV.

You have a dance class that night.

You are going to be the dummy women beat up on at a woman's self defense course.

You are doing laundry.

You need to shave your eyebrows.

You are joining the Jedi order and feel a tremor in the force.



Don't give her the attentions she craves and she will crave it more.

If you really want to make an enormous impact and get her mind going - I would tell her that you are not able to get together with her for dinner because you already have other dinner plans. That is what I would do. That will give her something to think about while she's gone. If she asks with who - just say a friend. If she keeps persisting - just say you don't want to get into that right now and that (maybe) dinner can happen when she gets back.

You have to remember - she expects you there for her at her command. She knows you will drop everything for her. This is what she knows from what she sees of you. This is what you are trying to change - remember??

She's on a business trip until the end of the month - isn't that just until next week?

Ok, I know you are itching to see her. In the event that you decide to go to dinner with her - just remember the new image you are trying to portray to her. Be smooth, vague and short. Don't talk about reconciling or anything like that. Just be a friend. You will be taking care of her ENs in another way where you aren't looking like a desparate person.

Before committing to dinner plans with her - still tell her you already have plans and that you will call her right back to see if you can change the previous plans. Then tell her you changed the dinner for tomorrow. So while on her trip - she knows you are having dinner with ???

If you decide to plan A her still ...you need to be very careful when doing so. Don't be a total door mat. Plan A her with compliments or from a friendly angle. Don't say things like "Why don't you just come home". Rather ...say things like "you look nice" "I'm sure you will do well" very neutral yet complimentary statements. This meets her ENs without being so desparate.

Just remember what you are trying to do here. Remember your goals. You fall into it everytime when she comes to you. This is what sets you up for disappoinment everytime. She will do this even more now without her distractions. You need to stay focused on your goals. You need to be even stronger now and not fall into her web. Remember - she is not home with you yet nor has plans to do so. This means she is still waiting for something to come along. At the moment you have her attention. It's up to you on how you want to look in her eyes. Remember - women like a challenge, they like men with strength, respect and confidence. You are now in the same ranks as OMs. But you need to come out on top. You are technically competing here. They won't look sad or desparate - and neither should you.

Well, she hasn't contacted me today. We're both online doing the stand-off and not saying anything. Yesterday, she was blowing me up even after the R talk.

I was being indifferent... not sure if i went too far with that or if she's just testing me now.

It doesn't look like there's going to be any dinner plans since she's leaving tomorrow and hasn't said anything. She's probably talking to OM2 again.

That leads me to think that I should try to meet some of her ENs until plan B, so she doesn't go back to him.

One thing I want to tell her today is to file her taxes separately this year. I told her that yesterday since I'm self employed now and it'll be easier (not the real reason), but she kept asking "why?" and said she'll take our stuff to our accountant when she got back to see which option is better. We left that discussion unresolved, but she wants to file jointly. I'm sure it's just another thing she wants to use to keep me tethered.

I was going to tell her I'm looking for a new CPA because I'm starting a corp this year. I'm also looking to invest in some property. Does that count as something new? I figure it'll show her that I'm doing some big things without her.



Sorry, that was out of context. I wrote that wrong. What I actually said was that.. she already knows what I want and now it's up to her to decided what her marriage, me and our life was worth to HER. Not sure if there's a huge difference there, but I was trying to put the ball in her court to make a decision.

That's when she said she wants to take things slow and I said it's an all or nothing deal.

But she obviously knows that I'm still waiting around for her and that's what I need to change.

Hopes up...

Hopes down...

You should know the pattern by now.

If you listen to the advice and do the cold shoulder thing - you will not set yourself up for dissapointment. Be consistent with this already.

She will look to fulfill her ENs with someone else - even if you are doing so. Her vision of you needs to be rattled and reset. You are predictable to her. She totally knows you are waiting around for her.

File taxes separately. Take care of this while she is on her trip so she has no say when she comes back.

You need to be consistent with your plan. Stop being drawn back to her when she shows signs of effort in contacting you. This is your weakness ..and potentially your downfall.

DM,

You're not getting it.

Going dark doesn't mean a few hours. We're talking about a few weeks of silence. No IMs. No calls or texts. No emails.

Silence. She calls and you meet her calls with silence. Let her send you emails. Let her text you and call you.

She'll either be rattled by this or she'll give you the peace YOU need to heal.

You're not listening to anything we've been saying.

Quiet. Nothing. Don't tell her you're doing anything in your life.

You want results and we're telling you what works but you're still not listening.

I'm listening... I'm just trying to set this up. I won the stand off today. She started IMing me, I talked for a little bit and had a short but good conversation. I met some ENs then told her im finding a new cpa to set up my business, I'm going out with some new friends from work tomorrow, people she doesn't know. Then she asked who this girl was on my myspace page. I said why are you checking up on me? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />(it was no one, she's a friend of a friend) She asked a lot of questions that I barely answered then I said I had to run to a meeting..see ya.. have a nice trip.

Now I have a little over a week to get my plan B ready. Things are always easier when she's out of town, especially now that POS is out of the picture. I'm barely going to answer her if she calls from her trip. Then I'll give her the pbl when she comes back. Still thinking of a way to do that.

Sounds weird, but I feel really bad for pulling the rug out from underneath her, but i know... look what she's doing and has done already. I guess the difference is I have a conscience.

Yes, you have a conscience, but you're doing the right thing.

You're right, why does she care who is on your myspace page. I'd have every woman I know sign up as a friend and start posting messages about how hot they think you are and what a great time they had having coffee with you the other day.

That will get her spinning.

Of course, it can all be smoke and mirrors.

Having some serious writers block with my pbl and now that she's not seeing OM2 anymore, I'm not sure what my angle is.

I guess it would be the fact that she's still not commiting to our marriage and is still "open" to seeing other people?

I have the link to a bunch of PBLs, but given my situation, should I still write the standard letter?

Tell her I love her
I want to work things out
I'm sorry for my mistakes
I'm in pain?
I'm protecting my feelings for her
No contact
Conditions for her to come back

Did I miss anything or is there any portion I shouldnt use?

Thanks,
DM

her actions are hurting you and draining your love for her, hence you will be unable to associate with her until the conditions are met.

The NC guarantee would be with any of her previous A partners, and an agreement to emotional and physical fidelity going forward in order to consider attempting recovery.

I'm not really sure exactly how this all fits in your situation either, as Plan A/B are tools to end an active A. However, I would say that she is still in a wayward mindset, and the goal is to either break that mindset and remove yourself from the trauma of it so it does still make sense to me for you to use Plan B.

She's told you she's not seeing OM2, but says she still talks to him.

That's contact still. Tyk hits it on the head.

Conditions still need to be met. No contact with OM1 and OM2, NC letter and full commitment to the marriage.

Then you HAVE to follow through and resist the contact she may try to engage you in and that you'll be tempted to take.

It will be hard and suck at first, but it will get easier and easier as the days pass.

Yes. This is what is supposed to happen.

Remember, she is not getting what she wants. She is not getting from you what she is used to (Her way all the time). This is what you are trying to do remember? She will be most unhappy when she is not having her selfish ways with you.

Now you see that the methods are working or having some affect on her. ...Good!!

Yeah - these standoffs do seem to be a bit high schoolish. So then, who will be the first to grow up? That will be the real winner of these standoffs. Time to draw the line one of these days.

Sorry... i deleted that post because the whole thing seemed foolish and immature. I didn't think anyone read it yet. Thanks for your response.

I signed on again and she messaged me right away with a random question. It seemed a lot like what I was doing back when she wouldn't talk to me. I used to come up with some stupid question to ask just so I could talk to her. After I answered her question, she just said thanks and signed off.

She's acting like her wayward self again. I really enjoyed the last few days when she seemed almost normal.
Well, If I'm supposed to be making her angry it looks like its working. Atleast two of us are playing now.

Great job!

Now you know it's working. She's testing the waters now.

Only next time - don't answer.

She is choosing to be angry because she is not getting what she wants or expects from you. Now you are on to something.

Keep it up.

My question is why would you answer?

Seriously, put yourself as invisible so she can't see you're logged on or eliminate her from IM.

Trust me, you'll feel better when you start to end the contact and separate yourself from her.

Ah you bugger, you knew I'd slap you around didn't you? LOL