I'm most interested in hearing from FWWs (or BHs) about how long it took for you to come out of the fog and come back to the M.

The reason I'm curious about this because my WW moved out 'for space' two months ago and I've been in Plan B since then. I have been trying to determine how long to wait before moving forward with Plan D. I would really hate to do so and have WW come to her senses a month later. Or is the thought of WW coming to her senses just a fantasy?

Are there any FWWs (or BHs) out there that went through a similar situation?

I noticed that in your situation that d-day, your WW moving out, and your starting Plan B, really weren't that long ago.

Don't you wish you could just plug the data into some sort of calculator and have it tell you exactly when the WS fog would end... or how long the BS should wait for the WS to snap out of it?

It's very frustrating IMHO to not know how long to keep the option of recovery open.

I'm not a WS myself so I'm sorry that I can't personally answer your question from that perspective.

Just wanted to bump this up for you and to give you reassurance that it's still very early in your situation and since the OP has already broken up with your WW, you have a better chance for recovery than many.

I don't know how good FWWs might be at self-diagnosing fogginess <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. Perhaps you might want to rephrase your question and post it to BHs, e.g. "To BHs: How long did it take for your FWW to come out of the fog?"

Really? I think it's pretty to clear to most of us when things went from chaos to making sense again. I know it's fun to bash FWWs around here, but come on. Knowing one's own mind and taking responsibility are huge parts of de-fogging. If you say FWWs are incapable of self-reflection, than I guess we're incapable of de-fogging.

For me, coming out of the fog happened in tiny bursts at first, and then later I would de-fog for a few hours at a time.

So, I'd say tiny bursts started happening about a month before I ended the affair.

After I ended it, it took a week or so to establish no contact. (I was foggy for hours at a time...I didn't want NC because I "deserved closure" ha!)

OM kept text messaging me so about a month later I called him back and screamed and yelled at him. Still trying to get him to be responsible. Still foggy, but more situationally foggy.

The next day I changed my phone number (fog-blaster!) and have had no contact for a little over 2 months now. I'd say I still may get foggy sometimes, but now the foggy times are short bursts. My foggy now has a different form than my A fog. Spurts of fog now are related to hatred and anger of the OM.

Hope that helps.

Here, here MM!!!

I am also a FWW-- and I agree just about 100% with your story... kinda eerily similar to mine.

The fog would go away for short periods of time, and then come back. Keep a strong plan A... I would use ANY straying from "plan A" (my H does not know about plan A, but he inadvertently practices a shaky plan A...) would give me (in my own stupid head) a GREAT reason to retreat right back into fogginess-- and "with a good reason!" (haha... I was so stupid).

Really, I think the fogginess completely went away with some help from someone I met on another board, who is also on this board too. She has been a godsend... has been supportive, but also isn't afraid to tell it like it is, when I needed that. I don't think I would have come that far without that support. BUT-- I had "de-fogged" enough on my own to be able to see her points and take her advice at that point. I think if she would have tried to advise me a year ago, I would have laughed at her. I think you have to de-fog somewhat yourself before any outside help defogging will do anything. Just my opinion. Of course, you can help steer in the direction of that defogging with Plan A/B-- but the initial effort has to be of her decision.

RIM

Now see Maggie, saying what you did to MIM was even a bit of Fog...It is YOUR PERCEPTION that FWWs get bashed around here (victim mentality)...I sure as heck do NOT feel that way and I'm a FWW-I get TONS of support around here-This community has been a Godsend for Mr. W and I...I want you to let go of that if you can and realize that it is YOUR insecurity that makes you feel bashed-I hope you can let go of that very much, because sadly there are some FWWs that never do around here and it continues to impede their personal recoveries, imo...And I want you to consider that what MIM said could even be true for you at only 2 months out of NC...I can tell ya that I am WAY different now than I was at only 2 months out of NC...Hey, it could even be true of me at 2.5 years into recovery...I'm not perfect and I don't know everything...I still have much to learn in this life...Hey if anyone ever sees any fog left in me, I hope they care enough to say so...I don't want to live that way ever again...

As far as fog dissipation goes...That is a VERY gradual process and really I think for it to all go completely away takes a REALLY long time...For me, posting on MB has been my greatest tool to help bust through...I still monitor fog even today at 2.5 years into recovery...Because see, I know that there was a time in my life where my feelings lied to me...allowed me to do CRAZY things...helped me almost destroy that which is most precious to me...So if I am unsure, I run it past Mr. W or other MB friends of mine and I listen to them and consider changing my perspective if necessary because I NEVER EVER want to go back into the fog...Self delusion is scary...The journey out of the fog takes a humble heart...

Mrs. W

P.S. There is a post on Pepperband's Notable posts thread that is pinned to the top of GQII about fogginess...It was written by Mr. W and is a good read...

Mrs. W, please read again what I wrote. I never accused anyone of bashing me. I do see FWWs kicked around here a bit, from my perspective, but not myself. I never claimed to be a victim of anyone or anything.

I admitted that I am not DONE with the fog, but that the focus of my fog is now anger at OM. I never claimed at 2 months I am out of the fog. However, I am only foggy in spurts, not constantly.

I do think it is important that FWWs are given room to self-reflect. I don't think it hurts anyone to be reminded of that, especially in a place where the primary POV is BS.

Thanks for your thoughts...

Do you see why they are "kicked"? Do you think that that "kicking" is for sport? Or is it to perhaps help the greater good of saving a marriage?

I've been 2x4ed here...It was a blessing...I am very grateful to those that cared enough to speak the truth to me...

Mrs. W

Simply they don't defog while they are in the affair.

The affair will usually run anything up to 2 years typically. Many affairs end after 6 months.

Now a WW may have some moments of sanity while having an affair but they typically don't last long. Being in contact with their affair partner guarantees they stay foggy until the affair runs it's course or it is otherwise busted up.

No Contact is essential to de-fog and recover.

"F"WW's do not get a hard run here. They are much loved and admired.

Foggy WW's tend to get their arses handed to them which is as it should be.

I didn't say it couldn't be a blessing, I wouldn't know since NO ONE HAS KICKED ME AROUND. I am not a victim of being kicked around. Or bashed, or even clue-by-4'd.

I felt that MIMs comment was off-the-cuff and might be counterproductive. It expressed, in my opinion, a lack of belief in the ability of FWWs to recover an be self-aware. I've seen other posts like this. Not 2x4s, not help, but a general eye-roll in the direction of FWWs. So I said so, while at the same time responding to the original posters question.

I understand that any comment about the treatment of FWWs on these boards seems to push a button with you to the point that I don't think you digested the rest of what I posted. Clearly it is not appropriate for me to make such comments here. Done. Doesn't change my perception, but done.

I'm hurting incredibly for a number of reasons today. It would be a comfort to know that someone believed in my ability to recover, to self-reflect, to be a good person again. Oh well, not today.

Thank you again for your helpful thoughts and insight.

You saying that from your perception FWWs are bashed here DOES reveal your own victim mentality...It says that you see FWWs as victims of "bashing" or being "kicked"...Since you are a FWW, well, you get the picture...Your words betray your mindset...That is okay...Just be aware of it...Awareness is what makes the fog go away...I am saying this to you because I CARE...


Why anger at OM? You were there too...


No one said you can't self reflect...Just know that you won't always be the best judge of your own fogginess...Listen humbly to those that tell you they see fog...Doing that will benefit you and your marriage greatly...

And being defensive about the BS POV will not serve you well...Try empathy instead...Try and remember that Dr. Harley compares infidelity to rape or the death of a child...It's that traumatic...

Something that helped me a lot in the empathy department was being allowed to read Mr. W's journal that he wrote while I was in the affair...It was a painful read...I hurt him so badly...He was so alone...A lesser man would have crumbled...I was a cruel biatch...He was a pillar of strength...I'm not sure I would have handled things as brillantly as he did...He is my hero...


You're welcome...I hope they were taken in the spirit in which they were intended...

For my own selfish reasons I believe in all the FWW that come here, simply because it gives me some sense of hope that it can and does happen. I cannot even imagine my WW being at where you are right now, and I can only pray that she will get to where Mrs.W is today. I thank you both, because your perspective is helping me keep my sanity.

I'm asking you to drop the defensiveness for YOU...

What if instead of being offended by what MIM wrote you looked at it with empathy? What if you instead thought, "Oh MIM might be hurting at the hands of his FWW's continued fogginess?" How might you have responded then?

If you don't believe what MIM said to be true of you, then it shouldn't bother you at all, right?

I'm not picking on you Maggie...I'm trying to help you...Trying to befriend you...I hope you can see that...

Mrs. W

Sorry to hear you are hurting. FWIW, I believe in your ability to be a good person again.

"Why anger at OM? You were there too"

I know it's foggy, I said so in my first post on this thread. But here's my fog-babble regarding anger at OM:

OM preyed on me when I was at a weak point in my marriage. OM is a sociopath who lied to me while using my money and trust to further his drug habit (which I was clueless about) and sleep around behind my back. OM is actually a gay man. I had NO idea at the time. He was sleeping with other women and men during the A. So yes, I made a terrible choice to be involved with OM, but I made that choice based on lies and trickery by the OM. If I had known any of this I wouldn't have strayed. Once I found out I immediately ended the A. So foggy as it may be, I'm still damn angry at OM.

I was sincere when I thanked you for your thoughts. I have a pretty tough skin, just having a really down day today.

Wow, I didn't mean to T/J.

I'm sitting here with tears pouring down my face.

Thank you so much, really. Everyone who has gone through this on either side. I won't be so judgemental anymore. I won't look for animosity where there isn't any.

I'm sorry if I came off like a brat. I didn't mean it. Just hurting. Mrs. W, you're right, I need to have more empathy for the pain of others. I will take that lesson with me today. thank you.

((((Maggie))))

If I didn't think you had it in you to become all you can I wouldn't have bothered posting to you...You are HERE and posting...THAT is AWESOME...

I even understand your feelings of anger at OM right now...I had them too...I came here going on about what a jerk OM was-blathering on about HIS true colors...I was reminded that I too was a jerk and that my true colors weren't all that hot either...That stung like he11 and I tried desperately to pick a fight over it with Pepperband-lol-Pep couldn't be baited much to my chagrin at the time...

The fact was that I had CHOSEN to put myself out there and allow some other man to meet my needs...I was a grown married woman who made that CHOICE...and yeah, I got burned...Well duh...Kinda served me right, huh? Choices have consequences...

And Maggie, the same goes for you...So the OM lied-UM, is that really SHOCKING??? You are the one that made the choice as a grown married woman to allow someone other than your husband to meet your needs...Own that...It's yours...Your choice got you burned...Them's the brakes babycakes...You put yourself out there to be lied to and tricked...If you pick up a snake and get bitten, do you blame the snake or do you OWN that you made the choice to pick up a SNAKE???

I am sorry that you are having a rough day...This is a tough road...The more you own your stuff though, the easier it becomes...You will become a wonderful woman of character...Keep at it...

Sorry to BHHFSguy for the merciless threadjack! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

((((Maggie))))

I loved this post...I knew you had it in you...I'm beaming with pride for you...Be proud of your tears...This change of heart will help you and your marriage...You rock!

Mrs. W

Bguy,

Back to your question. I've tried to think of a good answer, but I think it may be a poor strategy to try to make your decision based on what may or may not happen with your WW. Nobody really knows.

I think the real thing for you to do is decide for youself how long you want to wait. I know for me I wasn't really in a big hurry to start dating. I had dated my WW since my freshman year of college and really had never been all on my own, so I thought I would experience that for a while. I was alone, but I wasn't lonely. I had things I wanted to do.

In short, getting the state of my M resolved or not, wasn't keeping me from anything. I figured once it was, I would do something about it.

I don't know how you feel about those things. I guess, once you're in plan B or separated, I think its best to stop deciding what you do based on what your WW may do.

So, how long do you think you should wait?

Thanks for the responses. I know that normally Plan B is done when the A is still active, yet in my situation the OM wanted nothing more to do with WW almost as far back as D-Day. So it seems like I would have a better shot at WW de-fogging and coming out of her confusion than some here. Yet here I am separated (physically, not legally) from her because she moved out two months ago.

Because she's now in a different county, I was originally going to begin legal proceedings before 90 days had passed; so that any legal moves she made once she'd gained residency wouldn't require me to go all the way over there. But I'm starting to question if that's not giving her enough time to come to her senses.

So I was mainly curious if any FWWs here had moved out and how long it took before they wanted to get back together with their BH. But it seems as though Plan B is more successful with a WH than a WW and Plan A is more successful with a WW. Or are there a some BHs here who were successful with Plan B?