I do, I did, and I am. My apologies.

t&l

I'm sorry, T&L, if I offended you.

This whole situation has been very confusing to me. I came on to this forum pretty broken and drained and seeking support and encouragement like I had seen countless others receive as I had browsed the forum anonymously.

While I did receive encouragement and support from many, I was blindsided with other very harsh opinions on my situation. Yes, there was some truth in those opinions regarding my H's character, but my oppenness to try to respect and consider other's opinions did ultimately get the best of me.

Ark, you pointed out valid concerns with my H"s character, BUT the way in which you did it was harmful. I was very clear in my original post as to my emotional state, and where before I excused your behavior or disregarded bc there was some truth in your concerns, I was wrong to do so. You were harsh and careless with me, and being a more experienced poster, I personally believe you should have known better.

Who of any of you, having gone through this experience of adultery wants to hear right out of the gate that the OW was a victim? And in my experience specifically, although I do have compassion for her due to her tender age, I was still hurt by her actions. She called me stupid, referred to me as 'Satan', befriended MY family, even my own DD, and publicly prided herself in her ability/gift to 'love' people in the midst of the A... she basically stepped into My role in My life, and for a while, did it better than me. *That hurt me* regardless of her age.

Stellakat, your opinions were honestly just ignorant. But that's just my 'opinion.'

I recognize that no one who responded to me is my counselor, but I would hope that when more 'newbies' come here and post, even if you don't agree with their situation, that you would approach them with more discretion, tact and gentleness than you did me. After all, the people who are brave enough to tell their story and reach out for help on here are pretty broken and wounded, whatever their circumstance... and just because you CAN hide your harsh words behind your computer screen doesn't mean you SHOULD.

Loving Anyway, I can't tell you how powerful your insight into my emotions in a very weak moment were to me. I'm pretty sure I'm going to print them out so I can see them often.

I don't know if I'll be on here again, I feel pretty embarrassed about a lot of things that have gone on, even my own statements, which in a not so good emotional state I made the decision to post. I really have to decide if my skin is thick enough, and at this point, I really don't know if it is.

Good luck to you all in rebuilding your marriages,

FB.

You didn't offend me--I was making fun of myself. I do that a lot. If I'm sorry for anything it's only that I'm sorry you didn't get more help and less bashing. When my daughter showed up almost 3 years ago, this place was a lifeline, and helped inestimably much in her marriage recovery. Now it's more like a mud-and-diamond free-for-all, and you've got to pluck stuff off of you once it hits, and figure out which it is. That's too bad, but there are still lots of diamonds of advice here on this site, and help to be had, if you're willing to wade through the, um, other stuff to get it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

t&l, wishing you the best

I hope you guys came ready to read, because I have alot to say. First of all, I should say that I am FB's H. I know there's probably some kind of "can of worms" I'm about to open because I'm writing this, but I feel like you some of you guys have been totally unfair to FB. This board was supposed to be a place where she could come, and find the support that I fail to offer her when she needs it. She was hoping to find people who would be able to tell her from experience that things would be okay, and worth the work. But SOME of you folks on here, have been not only a huge disapointment to her, but a huge disapointment to this site in general.

I cannot fathon the type of simple minded immaturity required to read a forum post, and encourage someone to divorce their spouse. I cannot fathom the flippant irrisponsibility in someone that would argue with, and cause a wounded woman to feel as though she needed to defend herself, with such little knowledge or understanding of the specific situation she's in. Come on people, you can't do that. If you want to just throw stuff out there, to feel good about you "ADVICE" giving abilites, or to practice for your psyche test, without getting the full story, then you should remove yourself from this place. Seriously, that is completely uncalled for.

Now, for those that wish to know more, please read ahead...if you think you've got it all figured out, then go somewhere else.

I would like to tell you some of this story from where I have been. I was raised to be in the spotlight. When I was a kid, I got attention for 2 reasons. Being on stage and being bad. My parents would tell stories of both of these things in my life. Other than that, I wasn't special. This situation in me left me with a lifelong struggle with depression. I grew up wanting 1 thing. The stage. I took it every chance that I got, but it never paid much, and so I struggled. I have lived in a world with 2 options. The stage and real life. I have always struggled with real life, because it has never gotten me the attention I wanted. So, fast FWD a few years, and I'm married. I have the promise from a local church to be on full time staff, I'm leading a talented band with doors opening up, and everything is looking fantastic. The Church withdrew it's promise for financial reasons, the band suffered and dissolved, and I feel like I've lost it all. All except my wife who is now forced to provide an income for our family due to my depression issues.

Yeah, we had a rough time our 3 1/2 years of dating, because , as she explained...we both came from bad places. And our first 3 years of marriage, I wouldn't wish on anyone. The fights, the screaming rages, the threats, suicide attempts, etc... That was some horrible ******.

I remember that FB was all I could ever hope for in a girl. She was everything to me. I have adored her since I met her. Yes, we met and her Church, but no I did not get kicked out for having a relationship with her. The Pastors asked me to discontinue associating with her at all. I agreed to follow their rules, and not speak to her. I was never kicked out, I left the church due to the way they handled the situation in the days following the meeting where they asked me to stop talking to her. It's a long story, but basically There was a gossip chain going around an area network of pastors, and I traced the root of the gossip back to my pastor. When I confronted himi about the gossip, he said it wasn't gossip if your telling friends, so I made the decision to leave the Church.

Anyway FB dealt a very harsh emotional blow to me, 3 days into our marriage, she told me she was done with me, and wanted a divorce. That really put an end to my hopes and dreams for our future. So, we've done some [censored] stuff to each other, and we've hurt each other over the years. But I believe that, based on our family experiences growing up, what else could anyone expect?

As I stated before, I've always sought 1 thing. The Stage. It's engrained into my system to be on stage. When I first came to the Church of the OW, I was blown away by the look and feel of the place. It attracted my desire to be on stage.

The Pastor of this place, carries himself on a silver platter...Holy Cow, this guy delivers himself to you as the most caring, in your life, touch your heart, see your future, guy I've ever met. He is THE single most manipulative person I've ever met in my life.

In all of my performances, I've known people, and met people along the way. People I knew, asked me to lead worship for the youth services. I did, for 1 summer I played sundays main service, wednesdays youth service, kids camps, VBS's...whatever they asked me to do. I felt this was my ticket. Yeah I was training to be a cop, but I felt that if I played, I would be it. That was step 1 in the destruction of my marriage. FB left me and moved in with her Dad.
I didn't even see the next few steps coming. A few days later, The Pastor had a "Father/Son" talk with me about how I needed to let her go, get the divorce and move on with my life. All of that advice, in a less than 5 minute conversation. The next few weeks consisted of me, playing my heart out on stage, being told I was the best they'd seen, and that I was going places. Along with all of that, came his daughter who truly was just an acquaintance at first. Then she was kind of always around. Then I started getting invited to go places with large groups of people. Then I was being invited to the Pastor's house, where only "Special priveleged" people were aloud to even know where it existed on the map. I was unanware of the discussions FB had with this man at the time, be he sat me down with his daughter one day, told everyone else to leave, and said..."You've found the best friend you could ask for in my daughter. Lean on her, seek her advice, when you need to be lifted up, she'll be the one to do it." Then he said something that according to people around him, he's only ever said once before..."I see me and you in my future. We're going to do great things together. Just trust me, follow me, and you and I will change the world. I'll give you the stage you deserve. I'll take you where you want to go, just let me take you there."

Damn, my life changed in that moment. Here it was...THE STAGE!...and all I had to do, was follow his words, and be his daughters best friend. Soon it would be, Worship the ground I walk on, and sleep with my daughter.

Thats was how it started...by the end of it, I had found myself mixed up in a group of people that were swapping drugs, alcohol, and women. I was being pressured to spend the night with her at various people's houses and to take cocktails of pills that were handed to me. I don't even know what they were, but the hallucinations were intense.

Basically, here's the score, I spent enough time with this person, that I did develop feelings for her, but I also knew that she was being pushed on me for some reason I cannot explain. Her Dad was orchestrating some kind of relationship that I still don't get. All of the people around him were doing the same things...

Once I realized the ****** I was living in, I made decision to run away. I ran hard. I cut off all ties to everyone and anyone associated with that time in my life. Immediately. I even left the state. I ran without any promise that my wife and kids would take me back, I ran knowing my family would hate me for it. I ran for my own life, because I knew I was going to die, either from the drugs and alcohol, or from knowing too much of a corrupt system.

That's my story. We're together now, and our lives are healing. We're different people, because in September of 07, I accepted Chriust as my Lord and Savior. The gospel truly is the good news.

Afterwake

FB,

My prayer is that as you consider returning to MB or not you will factor in that MB needs you, too.

Recover is a long road...at least two years. You've already shown you're brave, honest and hungry enough for it. I see the same in your FWH's post, as well.

Which is why MB grows.

I believe God reaches constantly...that we come here as you did, in our crisis of self and our lives, within our marriages...to where others came and then stay, to give back and continue their own healing, learning and growth.

I see MB as learning about boundaries...which go around ourselves...that we hold ourselves to, and enforce when others cross. Posting on MB gives practice, awareness and understanding, which we can apply in our marriages, our relationships with others.

We can all go astray, lose our way, in life...I know I have done that at times on this board, even, when I react to my feelings and not come prayerfully, with my intent pure. And I have been forgiven, even as I have in my marriage...and forgave, as well.

A process of wholeness, seems to me, what the Harleys have provided here. Not an event, an incidence...not one thing to destroy all that preceded or will follow. God at work, constantly.

Often, we can't see his hand when we're covered by it. Takes time. Sure can see it in hindsight.

You both have the chops to be here. Only one thing can cut off MB as another avenue to have his touch in a different way in your lives.

Removal.

Here, as in real life, you affect as much as you are effected. You benefit as greatly as you are benefited. Opens us to doing harm, too, as much as we feel harm. It's the inherent way of responsibility. As it is in our marriage, we are half of our relationships on this board, with our FOO and our friends...everyone we meet. Only half and all of it.

Half is what is said, and half is how we choose to perceive.

I hope you'll keep in mind God's design of humans...where what they do to others, be certain, they do also to themselves. What they don't allow is as important as what they do.

My experience here has been to know that when something resonates in me, that's God's touch directing me to understanding what I already knew and didn't know I did. Up solely to me to hold onto that resonance, examine and welcome it home fully.

The same when something hurts in me...to understanding I was already hurting, right there. Up to me to know this place in me, where it came from, that it's not hurt coming in...already there.

Which is why you can come here and take what you need and leave the rest...through discernment.

God's healing ways...both for love of you who are made from love...doesn't always feel like love, does it?

(I see you already understanding a lot of his design...responsibility, limits and freedom...so my prayer remains...you matter.)

LA

Mom forgot till I reminded her, but my younger brother was 26 when he married, and his wife was just a few weeks past her 18th birthday. (And no, they were not having sex before they married.) So the age difference is not nearly as big a thing to me as that an A occurred at all while in a pastoral position.

When I was younger, I would guess in the 18-20 range, I was hit on by an older MM. The family was good friends of mine, and I would often watch their children for them. They even asked me to agree to take the children if anything ever happened to them.

Well, one day this guy sits me down - at church!!! - and says he's been having fantasies about us being a family, and feeling like our souls touched, blah blah blah puke.

It was not my age but my character that kept me from giving in to his insistent pressure. ("Are you sure? Didn't you feel it too? Nothing? Nothing at all?" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> ) Even if he had been closer to my age and more tempting, NOTHING could have induced me to have give in. Not because I am immune to temptation, or think I am incapable of having an A. But because I had already made a choice, that no matter what happened I would be obedient to God's law.

Your WH chose differntly, and regardless of her age, so did the OW. It didn't matter in God's eyes if her father served her up naked on a silver platter, or if your WH pretended to speak on behalf of God. (Not that I think either occurred.) She had a choice to make, and only she is responsible for what she chose. When I was 18 I knew right from wrong, and so did she.

Lest it seem like I am bragging too much, my response to the creepy MM was not ideal. I was such an agreeable young person, and very much a pleaser, and would never in a million years have told someone off. "Heh heh, well I'm flattered, but um um um, don't you sort of have a wife? No, I don't feel anything for you. Yes, I'm sure. Yes, I'm really really really sure. No, I'm just not um um interested." Instead of MY SHOE UP THE SIDE OF HIS HEAD!!!!!!!!

He came to a sad end, too, suffering a chemical exposure at work that affected his mind, leaving him little better than a child. His wife still was with him the last I knew.

I do completely agree with Ark's most recent post that you will both have to have some very strong boundaries in place if you are to recover. Your WH has more problems than just slipping willingly into adultery. But with God all things are possible, as long as we humans open ourselves to Him.

Welcome to MB. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

fireblossom

I am sorry if my post hurt you...
it was not intended to be an attack on you...

ark

Ark -

I am a little down tonight and was hoping you could give me some words of wisdom to keep my FAITH alive.

What did you to? I am shaking my head like Mimi told me, and playing a game with my son, but I MISS my H.

So I love it when you write your stuff. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I could beg if you like.

Ark, apology accepted. Sorry I didn't reply sooner!