<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

The signs are usually there. Men who are blindsided by divorce were often not paying attention- no wonder their wives leave.

The men here at MB are not in that category <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It'd be great to see the success rates of those 'experts' mentioned compared to the MB success rate.

Thanks for posting this and for all you do, MEDC.

Ace

thanks Ace. right back at you.

Some women make me feel ashamed. I cannot imagine bankrupting a guy just because I felt like moving on with my life.

Sometimes it seems like the courts are sanctioning prostitution...oh you slept with this woman for 20 years, now you have to pay up 75% of your income for the pleasure.

Especially since most women in the social set they were interviewing for the article are probably very well educated and capable of making money on their own. But instead they want to be paid for the "services" they provided for their husband during the marriage...kind of sounds like a [email]wh@re[/email] to me...

I'm not against child support, fyi, but these examples are ridiculous, and I have met women who are determined to live off their exes for the rest of their life. And the courts enable it. Makes ya wonder...

"The signs are usually there. Men who are blindsided by divorce were often not paying attention- no wonder their wives leave."

I disagree.

In most cases of adultery/divorce the adultery came first THEN the justifications such as feeling neglected, EN's weren't being met, etc. Usually the WS gave no indication to the BS that there was anything wrong whatsoever until they met their 'soulmate' and started looking for excuses to explain how their adultery is OK.

Also, adulterers are typically very careful to keep the adultery secret and therefore not to give their BS any clues that something may be wrong. It's not uncommon for WS's to continue to have sex with the BS and to behave as everything is perfectly normal for some time after they get involved in adultery. When the adultery is discovered THEN the WS suddenly informs the BS that the 'marriage is dead'.

Even in the cases where the WS starts behaving strangely, BECAUSE they are involved with an OP, that isn't really an example of the BS ignoring the signs that the marriage needs more work BEFORE the adultery and WS wierd behavior started. Again, typically the WS never indicated there was any problem, never gave the BS anything to notice and respond to, BEFORE the adultery and/or divorce plans began IN SECRET.

mag and mm... I agree!

I totally agree MaggieMagster!!!

Not in the least bit feminism IMHO either - more like BIMBOism!

And I think it is women like us who need to be the ones speaking up in the defense of these men. Because if the men themselves take too strong a stand in their own defense in these cases, too often they risk being portrayed as abusive, woman-hating, etc. GOOD men who are being abused by their adulterous unappreciative wives, their wives OM, and the legal system.

Good for you for speaking up for them Maggie!!!

The examples in this article are extreme, but the process is very real. Harley likes to call it "giver's snap"---a spouse (in this case a wife) will give and give, getting nothing back. Until that lovebank is completely drained. The effect can be devestating to her---and the husband is often left with no clue.

That's why you should never (rarely) sacrifice in marriage. Especially sacrificing when the other spouse doesn't realize it. The policy of joint agreement is made just for this---do nothing without an enthusaistic agreement in place with your partner. Couple that with the rules of Care, Protection, Time, and Honesty---it makes for a much healthier marriage.

Harley's article (an old one) on this syndrome is here.

It's interesting you bring up this point, because I am unabashedly a feminist. The courts continuing to enable this carp end up infantalizing women...oh poor baby can't take care of herself, let the courts step in and take care of poor little wifey. Bull. As long as women seek out this payment for "services rendered", we will never be respected equally in society.

And yes, there are some GOOD men out there! My H is one of them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Got your back on this one MEDC...

I am majorly fed up with pretenda-feminists treating males this way!

True feminism does not have as it's goal that women can and should ONLY rise to the level of the worst of males, the adulterous/deadbeat/promiscuous/irresponsible males at the bottom of the pile.

True feminsim believes that women are capable of behaving as honorably and responsibly as the BEST of males, and therefore should be expected to behave up to that standard.

And true feminism in no way should involve tearing down the good males, the ones who do support their families and are faithful husbands.

Maggie we are so on the same wavelength on this!

And I think we WOMEN (infantile bimbos need not apply) need to speak up more in defense of the good guys who are being treated this way.

Somewhere along the way the feminist movement got distorted into the notion that anyway a female wants to behave is OK.

It's sad to see that so many young females today believe that feminism means they can be as sexually promiscuous, emotionally cruel, and irresponsible as the worst males they know. It's as if the poster gal for feminism is a gold-digger Playboy bunny!

I don't see how 'giver snap' applies to this article.

What I see in these cases is the workaholic male is giving to the extreme, literally slaving away at his job, while the WW is playing with the OM behind his back. And then she decides to kick her husband out of the nest so she can move the OM in and still have the BH slaving away to provide her with the comfy standard of living he GAVE her... oh and she feels so ENTITLED to and so UNAPPRECIATIVE of the financial support of her BH that she sees nothing wrong with thinking her BH has to suport her OM too.

I don't remember reading anything in that article about the wife 'giving' anything sacrificially.... did I miss something?

meremortal:

You're basically reading the article very superficially (which it is---it's not a serious case study).

With the first case, there's no mention of infidelity. With the second---there is after a long time. While you don't see anything about the women 'giving' sacrifically for a long time---REAL studies indicate that this is often a major contributor (and at the end of the article, they talk about that). Golddigging bimbos usually move much faster.

The bottom line is that you need to be invested in the marriage---the "Male" giving to the extreme in a workaholic fashion may be completely missing his wife's important emotional needs (say 'recreational time' and 'conversation'). That's why the MB stuff works so well (when it's done correctly)---you protect your spouse (from lovebusters), you care for your spouse (by meeting their important emotional needs in the way they would like them met, via POJA negotiations), you spend time with them (15 hours/week), and you're honest with them (completely).

This isn't about great guys and evil women. It's about what happens in a marriage when you don't follow these guidelines to keep romantic love alive.

"That's why you should never (rarely) sacrifice in marriage."

Actually real relationships do involve some sacrifice.
Loving, sacrifice, and giving are not bad things. They are components of integrity. Too many of our problems today are caused by the 'what am I going to get out of it' attitude. Selfishness and the desire for instant gratification are more valued today than giving and faithfulness. The adultery and divorce rates are soaring compared to previous decades in direct proportion to the increase in selfishness and 'giving' only to get something in return.

"Especially sacrificing when the other spouse doesn't realize it."

LOL... So those women living in those great big lovely homes just don't notice that they aren't living in an apartment or trailer park? They just haven't realized yet that they are shopping in the best stores instead of at the thrift store?

Again, that article is most definitely not about examples of the WW giving sacrificially while the BH doesn't notice and appreciate... so then the WW finally wanders off because she just can't give anymore... The women in those examples are no doubt TAKERS - not victims of sacrificial giving LOL

"The policy of joint agreement is made just for this---do nothing without an enthusaistic agreement in place with your partner. Couple that with the rules of Care, Protection, Time, and Honesty---it makes for a much healthier marriage."

And I'm willing to bet that these pampered wives would NOT have agreed to staying married to a man who made less money (worked fewer hours) even if it meant he would be hanging around them giving them compliments and listening to them talk about their feelings... LOL What they'd want to 'talk' to their husbands about would be: "I FEEL like you should go make more money than you are now"!

The fact remains there are a LOT of women who want BOTH:
the financial benefits of a workaholic husband AND a lover who dotes over them. They don't WANT to choose between having it both ways. They CHOOSE to have two males in their lives so they can HAVE MORE than one mere mortal male can GIVE to them.

How did you somehow interpret the examples in that article to be about the wives sacrificially giving? They could have been watching soap operas or shopping while their husbands were slaving away at work... or flirting with the pool boy...

To quote the end of the article:


So while those quotes hit some highlights---the full menu here at MarriageBuilders is much more satisfying! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I also agree that the giver/snap does not apply to this or close to most situations.

Wow- I didn't get that out of the article at all. I guess I'm biased by my own experience. But, if meremortal is right- maybe these guys are better off single anyway? If I were a guy, I'd really hate to be married to a woman who only wants my money and is having an affair on the side.

"The bottom line is that you need to be invested in the marriage---the "Male" giving to the extreme in a workaholic fashion may be completely missing his wife's important emotional needs (say 'recreational time' and 'conversation')."

A wife informing her workaholic husband that him providing financially for her is NOT one of her important EN's, that she would rather him spend more time with her INSTEAD is one thing. What I'm talking about are the women who do want the things that having a workaholic husband provides AND want the time and attention that a workaholic husband can't provide his wife while still meeting her financial 'needs'.

It's sort of like the way some husbands want their wife to stay home, keep the house spotless, have dinner ready (even though the wife has no clue what time her husband will be home each night)... not 'nag' him to: help around the house, watch the kids sometimes so she can take a bubble bath, 'let' her have some spending money to buy a new dress or get her hair done, take her on a date, or back away from the newspaper/tv/computer to talk to her... and then that husband divorces his wife because she's boring/unattractive/grumpy compared to the ladies at work who have their nails done, wear high heels, and laugh at all his jokes and flirting.

It's about one spouse wanting competing EN's to be BOTH met to an extreme than can't be pulled off by ONE mere mortal mate.

It's about the selfishness of the taker - not sacrificial giving to the point that the giver wants to leave.

This hit close to home for me. WW sure loves her big house, $120 hair appointment, $50 bottles of shampoo (because the $3 ones aren't "good enough") $80 manicures/pedicures, nice car, her $1000 shopping sprees, but I'm the terrible husband because I wasn't there emotionally for her when she needed me. Of course, she doesn't say anything about all the times she was pushing me for bigger houses, nicer cars, timeshares in Florida, etc.

"OM makes me laugh and feel confident. He listens to me" "You come home from work and fall asleep or go out of town for work and I don't have anyone to talk to".

I wonder where WW thinks all those things she kept pushing for come from? If she wanted someone to listen to her I would have been more happy being poor and at home, but she wanted "more" so I worked my a** off to give it to her. And look what it got me.