What to do then? How can the NC rule be followed? I know I have several posts, there are just so many angles to this mess.

I'm confused. Are you talking about a 2nd marriage type situation (so WS is having an affair with her ex)? Or did the WS get pregnant by the OM?

K,

Just in case FTBM isn't around. Her WH had a child with OW, who was not his wife, before they met. Then ultimately had an A with OW because he was mad at his BW.

He was never married to OW.

Hope that clarifies.

Who

You establish an intermediary to do all the contact. This person can be a trusted relative or friend. They will handle all indirect or direct contact.

Or you, as the BW, can be the sole contact person. It takes a strong person to take this on.

The Harley NC rule still applies when there is an OC. You just need to be creative on how to achieve it.

Jo

Hmmm, I got a post smacked into the ether... Now Jo has responded (correctly, of course <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> )

If FTBM can handle it herself, she might be the ideal one to be the intermediary. If not, it needs to be someone that she in particular trusts. This has to all be worked out via the POJA, but the no contact rule would be very important in this case---and I can't see negotiating around it.

Yes, my husband and his ex have a 6 yr old child. They broke up, he and I met, wegot married, and now have a one year old son.
He cheated on me with his ex/the OW, 3 times, came back each time.
Finally I kicked him out - verbal, emotional abuse and he stayed with her for one month then got his own apt 3 weeks ago.

They have always had to have contact. So how could he have the NC rule? He wants to see his son once during the week and every other wknd. It was always hard on us b/c she would say he could pick him up, then when my H came over she would change her mind. They never established visitation as they were never married, so what she says goes, until or if they go to court.

She is very manipulative, and I think she used this as a way to keep him calling, begging to see the son, keeping him constantly riled up, going over there.
She is just hateful IMO.

Now he is spending time on Christmas Eve with this same EX, his son and her family. UGH, I just hate it. He just doesn't see what she is.

No, the OW and I would not want to see each other. She is seriously evil. SHE was the one who called and told me about the affair - in DETAIL...each time. Things I didn't want or need to know from her...showers, candles. Very hurtful to me, and she loved it.

The grandparents live on the other side of town, across the river, so they can't be intermediaries.

Addicts often have an imperfect mirror to gaze into. They don't see the outside world particularly clearly either.

You're not in recovery yet, correct? This would have to be negotiated between you and your husband, with the help of a very good coach. He has cheated on you with his ex 3 times. That's a bad track record. Hopefully he can acknowledge that once he's 'fog-free'.

Would you be able to deal with handling this boy? And the fact that there is no court ordered visitation would be something you could tackle together---the crap that the OW is likely to pull would help draw you together.

Bwahahahaha... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If you and your husband can recover successfully and get a court ordered visitation, I believe you just might have what it takes to visit evil on a weekly basis. In fact, you might learn to enjoy it...

Yes the boy is no problem, he is an inoccent victim in all this, same as my sweet son and my older daughter from prev M.

Not in recovery. We are communicating, he has his own place now, mail has been forwarded, but he is still in contact with her too. We have been affectionate. He says he hasn't "been with her" for a while. Eww.

LMAO, I wish I could formulate a plan so he and I could be the TEAM against the OW. I pray for God to enlighten him every day.

K and Res, I'm afraid to ask point blank - do you want to go back to counseling. We went to 2 sessions. Or do you want to work on the marriage. I'm afraid of what he will say and that I will end up having to do Plan B before I even get Plan A off the ground.

If you can counsel with the Harley's---there's a big benefit. Because they're sneaky... If your husband is noticing a new 'Plan A' you and liking it, you could tell him that you're getting help with this marriage coach. And if he wouldn't mind---Steve would like to talk with you for a bit to get feedback on how you're doing on the program.

See---it's so devious. They're helping Steve to help you become a better wife. And they're talking to Steve... and then... "hey, this plan might work for me too..."

Bwahahahahahaha.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

(I'd leave it until after the holidays. MB gift certificates typically go over like lead balloons...)

"It was always hard on us b/c she would say he could pick him up, then when my H came over she would change her mind. They never established visitation as they were never married, so what she says goes, until or if they go to court. She is very manipulative, and I think she used this as a way to keep him calling, begging to see the son, keeping him constantly riled up, going over there.
She is just hateful IMO. Now he is spending time on Christmas Eve with this same EX, his son and her family. UGH, I just hate it. He just doesn't see what she is."

Yikes - not exactly a good set-up for recovery. You will have to insist on your WH ending all contact with the OW when you get to Plan B. And some sort of visitation schedule and an intermediary arrangement will have to be in place. Or, if it is not possible to arrange for an intermediary, then either you alone, or you and your WH together, should be present for all visitation transfers (NEVER your WH and the OW alone together).

Make sure the Plan A you are doing is really good. And don't stay in Plan A for too long (since the WS will just get used to cake-eating and will have his heart set on making it permanent).

Curious: If OW and WH end up together, and you and WH divorce, would OW allow him to come over for visitation with your child minus her monitoring?

Here is what our xOW said to me... he could have visitation any time with anyone BUT ME. Until he D'd me (which he did not <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />) she would not allow visitation unless it was in HER HOME with HER and WITHOUT me. They all think alike. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

We are NC now and as of today, 1 year past the last dday and 1 year into NC.

"he could have visitation any time with anyone BUT ME. Until he D'd me (which he did not ) she would not allow visitation unless it was in HER HOME with HER and WITHOUT me. They all think alike."

Yup - my WXH was telling others that I was preventing him from seeing our daughters (untrue - I wouldn't let him see ME while RO was in place and later when I was in Plan B - I never prevented him from seeing daughters). BUT the OW really WAS trying to prevent or monitor his visitations with our daughters. We could always tell whether or not they were broke up because OW only allowed him to see his daughters a couple of hours on Wednesday & Sunday whenever she was back in his life. And she wanted to meet our daughters too - no doubt so that she could be present to oversee his visitation with them and ensure I was not present. WH would get in trouble with the OW if he didn't keep his cell phone on and take calls from her when he was with his daughters! One time she even chased us around in her car, trying to catch up with us to 'catch' him with his wife and kids!

Here's how this can work to your advantage:
While you are in Plan A you can allow WH to come over any time he wants to spend time with you and the kids. The OW will not like this so she will nag and try to control him. Also, while you are in Plan A you don't give him an ultimatum about using visitation with OW's kid to have contact with OW. You want the OW to be the one putting pressure on him and trying to monitor/control him while you are in Plan A. (But do not stay in Plan A for too long and all contact with OW has to stop before ending Plan B and attempting recovery.)

Oh, BTW in my case, WH tried to 'reason' that he would need to keep in contact with OW even if we reconciled because OW's little girl had become attached to him... I told him that IMHO that just showed she was a bad mother - allowing her daughter to get attached to the married man she was committing adultery with! (An LB I know - but the absolute truth and I was certainly NOT going to put up with him using her kid to continue contact with OW!) Anyway, when they really did break up for good OW made it very clear she didn't want my WXH around LOL.