I hope you guys came ready to read, because I have alot to say. First of all, I should say that I am FB's H. I know there's probably some kind of "can of worms" I'm about to open because I'm writing this, but I feel like you some of you guys have been totally unfair to FB. This board was supposed to be a place where she could come, and find the support that I fail to offer her when she needs it. She was hoping to find people who would be able to tell her from experience that things would be okay, and worth the work. But SOME of you folks on here, have been not only a huge disapointment to her, but a huge disapointment to this site in general.

I cannot fathon the type of simple minded immaturity required to read a forum post, and encourage someone to divorce their spouse. I cannot fathom the flippant irrisponsibility in someone that would argue with, and cause a wounded woman to feel as though she needed to defend herself, with such little knowledge or understanding of the specific situation she's in. Come on people, you can't do that. If you want to just throw stuff out there, to feel good about you "ADVICE" giving abilites, or to practice for your psyche test, without getting the full story, then you should remove yourself from this place. Seriously, that is completely uncalled for.

Now, for those that wish to know more, please read ahead...if you think you've got it all figured out, then go somewhere else.

I would like to tell you some of this story from where I have been. I was raised to be in the spotlight. When I was a kid, I got attention for 2 reasons. Being on stage and being bad. My parents would tell stories of both of these things in my life. Other than that, I wasn't special. This situation in me left me with a lifelong struggle with depression. I grew up wanting 1 thing. The stage. I took it every chance that I got, but it never paid much, and so I struggled. I have lived in a world with 2 options. The stage and real life. I have always struggled with real life, because it has never gotten me the attention I wanted. So, fast FWD a few years, and I'm married. I have the promise from a local church to be on full time staff, I'm leading a talented band with doors opening up, and everything is looking fantastic. The Church withdrew it's promise for financial reasons, the band suffered and dissolved, and I feel like I've lost it all. All except my wife who is now forced to provide an income for our family due to my depression issues.

Yeah, we had a rough time our 3 1/2 years of dating, because , as she explained...we both came from bad places. And our first 3 years of marriage, I wouldn't wish on anyone. The fights, the screaming rages, the threats, suicide attempts, etc... That was some horrible ******.

I remember that FB was all I could ever hope for in a girl. She was everything to me. I have adored her since I met her. Yes, we met and her Church, but no I did not get kicked out for having a relationship with her. The Pastors asked me to discontinue associating with her at all. I agreed to follow their rules, and not speak to her. I was never kicked out, I left the church due to the way they handled the situation in the days following the meeting where they asked me to stop talking to her. It's a long story, but basically There was a gossip chain going around an area network of pastors, and I traced the root of the gossip back to my pastor. When I confronted himi about the gossip, he said it wasn't gossip if your telling friends, so I made the decision to leave the Church.

Anyway FB dealt a very harsh emotional blow to me, 3 days into our marriage, she told me she was done with me, and wanted a divorce. That really put an end to my hopes and dreams for our future. So, we've done some [censored] stuff to each other, and we've hurt each other over the years. But I believe that, based on our family experiences growing up, what else could anyone expect?

As I stated before, I've always sought 1 thing. The Stage. It's engrained into my system to be on stage. When I first came to the Church of the OW, I was blown away by the look and feel of the place. It attracted my desire to be on stage.

The Pastor of this place, carries himself on a silver platter...Holy Cow, this guy delivers himself to you as the most caring, in your life, touch your heart, see your future, guy I've ever met. He is THE single most manipulative person I've ever met in my life.

In all of my performances, I've known people, and met people along the way. People I knew, asked me to lead worship for the youth services. I did, for 1 summer I played sundays main service, wednesdays youth service, kids camps, VBS's...whatever they asked me to do. I felt this was my ticket. Yeah I was training to be a cop, but I felt that if I played, I would be it. That was step 1 in the destruction of my marriage. FB left me and moved in with her Dad.
I didn't even see the next few steps coming. A few days later, The Pastor had a "Father/Son" talk with me about how I needed to let her go, get the divorce and move on with my life. All of that advice, in a less than 5 minute conversation. The next few weeks consisted of me, playing my heart out on stage, being told I was the best they'd seen, and that I was going places. Along with all of that, came his daughter who truly was just an acquaintance at first. Then she was kind of always around. Then I started getting invited to go places with large groups of people. Then I was being invited to the Pastor's house, where only "Special priveleged" people were aloud to even know where it existed on the map. I was unanware of the discussions FB had with this man at the time, be he sat me down with his daughter one day, told everyone else to leave, and said..."You've found the best friend you could ask for in my daughter. Lean on her, seek her advice, when you need to be lifted up, she'll be the one to do it." Then he said something that according to people around him, he's only ever said once before..."I see me and you in my future. We're going to do great things together. Just trust me, follow me, and you and I will change the world. I'll give you the stage you deserve. I'll take you where you want to go, just let me take you there."

Damn, my life changed in that moment. Here it was...THE STAGE!...and all I had to do, was follow his words, and be his daughters best friend. Soon it would be, Worship the ground I walk on, and sleep with my daughter.

Thats was how it started...by the end of it, I had found myself mixed up in a group of people that were swapping drugs, alcohol, and women. I was being pressured to spend the night with her at various people's houses and to take cocktails of pills that were handed to me. I don't even know what they were, but the hallucinations were intense.

Basically, here's the score, I spent enough time with this person, that I did develop feelings for her, but I also knew that she was being pushed on me for some reason I cannot explain. Her Dad was orchestrating some kind of relationship that I still don't get. All of the people around him were doing the same things...

Once I realized the ****** I was living in, I made decision to run away. I ran hard. I cut off all ties to everyone and anyone associated with that time in my life. Immediately. I even left the state. I ran without any promise that my wife and kids would take me back, I ran knowing my family would hate me for it. I ran for my own life, because I knew I was going to die, either from the drugs and alcohol, or from knowing too much of a corrupt system.

That's my story. We're together now, and our lives are healing. We're different people, because in September of 07, I accepted Chriust as my Lord and Savior. The gospel truly is the good news.

Afterwake

Hi After,

I have been posting to your wife, I hope in a positive way. I don't usually come to the forum on weekends, but my FWH is doing some vacuuming right now so I though I would stop in.

I sincerely hope that you and FB can work things out and that you have at least gotten a glimpse of the terrible pain that the BS experiences.

I am noted for being a really tough person and being a BS brought me to my knees. I could not have imagined anything hurting so badly.

We have recovered our marriage and I am thankful that we were able to. One thing, though that I have learned is that for me at least there will be a tiny little part of me that will always be sad because of my FWH actions.

I have just come to accept that. Be patient with FB, because getting to recovery is very difficult. The forgiving is the easy part, accepting that the affair was a fact that I would never forget was really, really difficult.

Don't be too disappointed if you don't get many posts over the holidays, as I expect it to be pretty quiet.

Merry Christmas..

Who

You are so delusional that even your writing screams "mental illness". I am not familiar with FB's story, but whatever she was told to do by the good folks here I hope she quickly heeds that advice.

Accepting Jesus isn't going to automatically make you a good person or a worthy husband. Accepting personal responsibility for your own behavior is a start to becoming that, but it seems to me that you blame everyone but yourself for what you've done and who you are.

Thanks WHO, I appreciate that. I am in a huge learning process here.

To the other person...
I do, totally and completely accept responsibility for my actions. I was unable to express myself fully in the first post, because I had to take my kids out for a minute, and I didn't want to lose what I wrote, so I just posted it. I see how it comes off that way, but believe me, I do totally accept my role and my responsibility for being a [censored] and making bad chioces. I totally see that. I also know that accepting Christ doesn't automatically make me anything but saved, but my relationship with Him, has totally opened my eyes to see my human condition, and He has given me the strength to make changes in my life that I need to make. I am not a great anything. I am not a perfect anything...but I am on the road to being all that Christ wants for me, and in that...a great person, a great Father, and a great Husband. Just beacuse you're a hurting person passing judgements, doesn't make what you're saying right. I know what I am.

AW

AW,

I wanted to go with your awareness of your penchant for the stage and how that feeds your ENs.

Technically, that's allowing your ENs to be met outside of marriage. Just thought you might want to ponder that a bit...not all or nothing...an essential consideration.

I also wanted to explore stage and fantasy. They can easily overlap. I think you're coming out of the fog of a mindset you didn't know could be stunning destructive...to yourself, FB, and others.

My perception of your first post on the other thread wasn't one of not taking responsibility...it was of someone who was sorting through all of the truth to find his own truths...in the process of finding what was his responsibilty and what wasn't.

Which is what we do every day, isn't it? To find our part?

LA

Thanks for that too. I agree with you about THE STAGE meeting needs outside of marriage, which is why I am no longer on any stage of any kind. Sometimes I'll pick up my guitar and write a song for future use, but I have no intention of stepping on any stage until A) My wife tells me it's time to do so and B) My heart is in it for the right reasons.

I still long for the stage, especially when I'm depressed, I desire and dream about being on stage...but I know it's not where I should be. I am totally aware now, of how twisted life has been for me. Being on stage, is kind of like a drug in itself...but furthermore, there is an accesiblity that comes with it. Like, friends, popularity, praise, acceptance, making my parents proud etc... And I think maybe those aren't the worst parts...Attention from girls seems to come right along with it, and that has always been hard for me. I have mostly fought against it when it was in front of me, but when it also offers fun in the form of pills...Well, I guess at this point I have to admit those are my two weaknesses. Girls and drugs. I've never been an addict, but I've used for sure. Even now, I struggle with it. I have to fight myself from trying to find some pills to swallow....And so...I have the stage to blame for this...in a way... you know? It's my responsibility yes...but it's why I am just your average working guy now. Punching a clock....taking a lunch break...driving through traffic...5 days a week....every week...in hopes that someday, I'll be able to face the music world again with a clean and sober mind...step out on that stage...and affect peoples lives with the talent God has given me...not for my glory, but His.

Yeah...I'm a long way from there....

AW

AW,

I'm not a fan of shoulds. They are signals of fantasy to me...where my self-deceit begins internally. Healthy signals to receive, trace and understand...lousy ones to live by.

You are aware when you feel depressed that the urge for the stage is at its strongest. Good signal. Like the stage is what you would do to feel differently, generate other emotions than the ones you have right now. Is that correct?

I'd like you to consider the ENs involved...you named admiration, approval, acceptance. Would you consider how closely that relates to your infidelity? Not that you received these, making them bad or wrong...in how you chose to receive them?

Same for drugs? They give the illusion...and the illusion gives false emotions...if you are seeking to manage your emotions, if that is what you choose as your highest priority, then you can see the reasonableness fantasy offers.

Not knowing you are choosing that and why is the key.

Once you see the false payoffs for what they are, you can choose differently. In God's normal, astounding way, then you actually feel, as a result, what you longed for all along.

No blame for stage/fantasy...you can see it as succor AND cause...as solution (false payoff) and protection. Remains your choice...as are your goals, your own code, what you live by.

I don't believe in blame, either. Like offense, has to be taken. You can throw it everywhere...remains an illusion, as well. Humans do and don't do. That's it. What they don't do is as important, impactful as what they do.

Understanding this about ourselves, as humans, is pivotal for our lives...literally, our life experience pivots on this understanding.

And if we choose to act from it, disregard, discount or embrace it. Our choice.

Fighting yourself may well be at the heart of your choices.

I'm an average working guy--only female. I also do the stage. In moderation. I hope your esteem for humanity, how we choose to live, rises...so yours for yourself will be built from the inside out. As it only can be.

Why do you choose to now do what you do? Because you have a higher, a real payoff...your wife, your marriage, your self...your world. When you really get that your presence on this earth matters...that you are significant...that God created no junk at any time...then maybe you'll see you also take yourself everywhere...you're whole and complete. You affect and are effected.

Redemption is real...am I correct you are now choosing that journey for yourself, your marriage? Getting to the real whys within you...going from the obivous (actions) to the hidden (intentions and habits), layer by layer?

Are you prepared to have a thriving marriage? Are you able to grasp FB's choice to save her marriage? Can you see behind you a long road of destruction, littered with a lot of pain, harm and fear from your previous choices?

There's no point into stepping out onto a stage until you know what you're bringing to it...your whole self...which is what you get to know and grow in your marriage.

Makes sense to make your marriage your highest priority...includes you and FB in it...and God...for he is in your union, as well.

Each act you choose to take, consider your marriage first...your partner first. Rule of Care. Because when you do, you're included in that choice...your real self...so each is an act of self-love, of self-care, as well.

Which will be your life experience...of inclusion, acceptance, admiration and acceptance...you will be living it.

Think about shortcuts...they are subtle. If you want to take a shortcut to getting your ENs met, it might not be worth the trip...might be the urge that signals you, from you, that you believe the whole journey isn't worth it.

Once you see your hidden belief, and know that the whole journey is what you desire, your hunger for the shortcut abates.

Each time you crave acceptance, see if you aren't giving it...same for the rest...in this way you will live honestly. So speak honestly to FB...accept, admire, appreciate, acknowledge, validate...all acts of love...so you can approve of yourself, each day, for a lifetime.

LA

Wake, your first priority has to be working on your relationship with God. I think you see that. Just like your R with your BW, this is not something that is finished overnight - you have a lot of ground to recover.

When Jesus' parents lost him for a day, it took them three more days to find Him. An important lesson for us.

As to FB, begin learning how you have hurt her, to give you understanding, and do everything necessary for her recovery. Where are you in the process with an NC letter, transparency, changing your personal info, etc.?

AW,

The concerns expressed to FB were in regard to your affair with a very young woman. They are legitimate. No one attacked FB, but rather, expressed to her that they were concerned that she should consider your ability to reason and your maturity.

That's all.



I see from your post that you arrive initially to defend FB, which is admirable. I posted to her at length, and lent support. I hope she read my posts, and I hope that you did as well. Because you have difficulty with depression, and from FB's posts with communication as well, I hope you have read the post I bumped for her on communication. It can help you both as you try to discuss your affair.

You are still in many ways blaming other people and the situation around you for your affair. You cite many extenuating circumstances:

there were drugs involved (you could have declined them)

this man was powerful (you could have kept your head about you and followed God instead of this man)

this girl was offered to you (you could have and do KNOW that people are not chattle)

there were stars in your eyes and a stage in your future (you could have said "no" or involved your wife)


Do you see the justifications and excuses you are making? Re-read your own post, AW. It is rampant with "reasons" for your affair. None of them hold water.

Your affair is about YOU. Not about the mean and powerful bad pastor. Not about the others who were doing it, too.

YOU walked that path, and your affair is about feeding your needs, something inside of you.

Your choice. Every single step of the way, you could have stopped the whole thing. You chose to keep going.




Now, regarding "the stage". I happen to be married to a man who spent many years on the stage. My youngest daughter is currently a professional musician on tour. I know about the stage, and the things it can do to your head. Been there, have the t-shirt.

Sure, it can make you think that you are hotter than anyone else, and that every single living person of the opposite sex wants you.

Only......they don't.

And.........they cannot make a home for you.

The difference is - there is a difference between sex

and love

and that difference

makes the difference, AW.

My FWH found that out in a short ONS and two months of a modified Plan B a lonnng time ago.

The stage took over his pea-brain. And other body parts.

And he thought he had the world in his pocket. Only, he didn't have me. Turns out, I was the only part of the world he wanted.

Strange. And he tried to justify it - lots like you are doing right now. "Oh, the other band members do it. Oh, everyone at the bar does it. Oh, it doesn't mean anything. Oh, she offered. Oh,..." Well, crap to that.

It took him two months to figure it out. He finally did.

28 years later, he forgot the lesson, and we were back to the drawing board. Only this time, we had Marriage Builders in the arsenal. This time, we got it right.

So, my advice to you, AW, is to get it right the FIRST time, so you are NOT BACK at this point again.

You get one shot, most of the time, at affair recovery. I'm a unique person, in that I'm able to forgive a little more than the next person down the line. Your BW probably isn't like I am, and probably won't get in the "two time or three time forgiveness box" with me. So, you might want to pony up to the advice column, drop the chip on your shoulder, and listen up.

The advisors here might be harsh sounding.

That's because they say things you DON'T want to hear.

And you don't want to hear it, because it isn't going to make you happy - because it isn't blowing smoke up your skirt with

la-la-la everything is acceptable and fine and no matter what you do everything is fine and lovely and socially fine and you can cheat and still be fine and la-la-la

That ain't happening here.

You will get straight up advice, real opinions, and clear ideas on how to save your marriage.

Don't expect anyone to hold back if they think you are doing the wrong thing, or if they think what you are saying is crap, fog, or something that will not hold water.

Because we are here to HELP YOU SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE - not to make you feel good.

And sometimes, the very thing we need to say to you, hurts.

But it just might make you think straight. And if you want to save your marriage, you had better get to thinking straight.

Fast.

That's all for now.

Except:

Read "Surviving An Affair". Do it now, do it fast.

Schoolbus

AW,

Welcome to Marriage Builders.

You have been given some great support already. Read and re-read what Schoolbus has posted to you. She's a very wise and helpful woman.

Jo

LovingAnyway, thank you so much...I have enjoyed reading your posts. Please keep them coming.

Neak, what is an NC letter, and what do you mean where am I with transparency, changing info. etc? I not only changed my info, I left the state for 4 months, and I stopped talking to any person I ever spoke to at the time of the A...wether they knew about it or not, I left an entire life behind, most people having no clue where I am now or why I stopped talking to them. All in the blink of an eye. On a Saturday afternoon, one miniute to the next, I jumped in my car, and drove as fast as it would take me...I threw my phone away, deletd all "myspace" friends, and never looked back. That was Saturday...by Sunday afternoon I was in another city...by the next Sunday, I was in another State....

School bus....Seriously? No. There are idiots on this site who give horrible advice. It has nothing to do with me not wanting to hear what you might have to say...bring it on...but if someone is an idiot....that's just a fact of who they are. Don't for a second tell me that EVERY person posting here gives solid advice. If you think that, I feel sorry for you.
I have taken responsibility for my own actions. You have not been in our counseling sessions, or in our bedroom when I'm pouring my heart out to my wife, nor were you there when I pulled her up on stage at our Church and confessed my sin to the entire congregation. You have no idea. Just because I gave the facts of what happpened in my story, doeasn't mean I haven't accepted responsibility. I have attempted suicide 4 times this year because of the guilt I live with because of my choices. You don't know what I have been through. Just because your H did whatever crappy thing to you he did, or your daughter is "on tour" doesn't mean you know what I should have done. I should have done alot of things in my life, but I didn't. I'm here now, trying to live a new life. That's where I am.

AW

Why do you want to continue to be married to your wife? You could find any woman to give you the attention you want and desire.

You do whatever you want to do, you cant blame others for having sex with the pastors young daughter or anything else.

MOST DEFINITELY YOU SHOULD GET OUT OF THE "MINISTRY" IMMEDIATELY IF NOT SOONER.

Please quit damaging others and manipulating other people. It is cruel.

Afterwake,

Narcissism unbridled.

Was your public confession just another way to "find the stage" and be the center of attention? "Oh look at the fallen sinner and how repentant he is. . " Did your BW know you were going to do this? I ask because I know the last thing I would want is for my W to stand up in front of everyone and talk about her infidelity, especially without informing me and discussing her need to do so beforehand.

And your attempted suicides by no means indicate your remorse, the do however indicate a unstable and troubled individual incapable of facing the consequences of his own decisions, choosing instead to run from the pain and suffering he has caused by inflicting yet more pain on those closest to him. Suicide is the ultimate selfish act. It is not an act of courage, but of cowardice. Remember me stating that your posts indicate mental illness, and your contempt for that opinion? Now your BW is afraid to truly express the hurt she has endured because she has to fear that you will KILL YOURSELF!!! How noble and selfless.

Not only that, but 4 attempts? C'mon man, how hard is it? I suspect these aren't suicide attempts but instead a gross manipulation of your BW. An attempt to gain pity and deflect attention from where it needs to be, on you and your actions and how they have wreaked havoc on your marriage and family.

You are not here to fix your marriage, you are here to lash out at people whose posts to your BW you objected to. You are here to DEFEND yourself, to portray yourself as a victim and justify or at least excuse or minimize your adultery. You are here because your BW is still so troubled by your behavior that she feels the need to seek help and counsel in how to cope with it. You are here because you do not understand the pain you caused, not because you are truly remorseful for your actions. If you were truly remorseful, its likely that your BW would NOT be here seeking help.

Good for her that she is. Good for you that you are as well, you may learn how to save your marriage. But not until you knock that pitiful little chip off your shoulder and relenquish the victim facade.

S, I am mad crazy about my wife. You have no idea. I have the woman I want. You really should read everything before you go on adding your opinion to things. The attention I want and desire I get from my wife. I have a clear understanding of that now. The attention I was getting was by being on a stage in front of people playing music. I made a horrible choice at a point in my life, but this never had anything to do with getting any woman I want...what the hellll is that? Don't you read before you post?

I do not blame anyone else for what I did, I have taken responsibility, I have only stated the facts of the situation. I know I made bad choices.

I am not, and have not been "IN THE MINISTRY" for coming on 2 years now. Where do you come up with this stuff?

Who am I damaging these days? Who did I manipulate today? You can't say things like that when you don't know what you're saying. I was all kinds of bad, but I am almost a year on the road to a better person, and I gave up manipulating and lying a long time ago. If you know something I don't...please share...

AW

TYK..whatever dude, It's not about having a chip on my shoulder...seriously man...you guys come into a place like this, and offer up opinions that are as pointless as the words you put into them. I'm here to learn how to deal with myself. I have said I'm a messed up guy who has serious issues. Not a mental illness, but I struggle with depression, I had it rough growing up...what do you know about that?

It seems that some people come here to feel better about themselves and the advice they offer, because "REAL LIFE" didn't quite work the way they wanted it to. You Cannot in any way, know a person by the 3 or 4 posts they write on a message board. Get to know me, learn something, then tell me what you think. Other than that, your opinion is pointless to me.

Wake, your tone is coming across as very defensive. Still, it sounds as if you have taken some excellent steps.

An NC letter is a letter to the OW, written by you and sent by your wife, that basically says you are sorry for the damage your affair has caused your marriage, you are committed to your wife, will never contact the OW again, and she is not to contact you, either.

You have left a lot of people behind, apparently. If any of them are worthwhile people, it might also be a good idea to drop them a note telling them what happened, and why you are gone.

Great that you told the folks at church, then staying off the stage. If you even ever go back up there, that is an issue for much later in recovery, after some of the more pressing issues are dealt with.

And in all seriousness, not as a paid commercial, counselling with the Harleys would be excellent.

It is much too soon in this process to decide the ultimate outcome of your marriage, so do not be discouraged early on by advice to split up. God can heal the two of you completely if you let Him, so don't give up yet.

Look how you judge me in the same sentence you protest being judged.

I am doing what I do here, you may do what you will with it. I see in you an almost sociopathic personality, and I would rarely say that about someone with such little knowledge of them. If others disagree and think I am overly harsh, others who's opinion I respect and value, I will certainly listen.

Prove me wrong, I want you to, for your wife's sake, and your own.

And, do you always avoid difficult questions by attacking?