Thanks graplin, that was the post I was thinking of.

I repeat: So, are we following the lead of the mods, or not?

Who exactly is WE?

"We"

"Wii"?

Who exactly is WE?
-I wouldn't presume to decide for you or anyone else. I include myself in the group of people who should follow the mods, and I choose to try to do so. I'm in "we." Are you?

Who exactly is a neighbor?
-One who shows mercy.
Go and do likewise.

Luke 10:25-37

--Please understand, *I* am not telling anyone how to behave, e.g. to show mercy. I am merely quoting someone else, who btw has a birthday coming up. Talk about old! This dude, he's older than the hills, as my grandmother would say.

I read some of my early posts now and wince: Pity parties , threats towards OM, doormat interpretations of Plan A.

I look at the responses I got and I smile : I got gentleness,wisdom coupled with 2x4s when I was JUST NOT GETTING IT.

That from some of the people posting on this thread, and talked about on this thread.

I was also assaulted by trolls and vanity-advisors when I was very vulnerable. The same people who advised me dealt firmly with the trolls and vanity advisors.

Pretty much as recent trolls and vanity-advisors have been. Back then very few folks defended the trolls and vanity-advisors, but some did.

Now I remember very clearly just how downhearting and confusing that time was: I'd JUST get a gleam of hope that my marriage could be recovered , if only I could properly adopt and apply some very uninstinctive behaviours: then somebody ELSE credible-sounding would advise me that my instinct was actually OK, or that I was completely at fault for my wifes affair. It made a hard time even harder for a while.

So my own path to recovery was guided in TWO ways by my kind advisors : firstly by interpreting MB and helping me apply MB to my situation, secondly by minmimising the corrupting effect of trolls and vanity-advisors in my situation, by both pointing out where their advice was poorly-indicated and also by taking them virtually outside and giving them a metaphorical good kicking.

Advising MB into new folks situations requires ADVOCATION of good MB practices, but also strong REJECTION of negative or bad advice IME.

I HATE the cussing and ad-hominem attacks that so many threads have been reduced to recently, but if that is the price of agressively rejecting corrupt advice then so be it.

A year or two ago I pointed out that I believed that the support of affair-marriages was highly demotivating to hurting and vulnerable new posters, both BS and FWS, and should be supported in a quieter place than the main MB boards. I was attacked, lied about, slandered , and I was pretty clearly not a troll, and not posting disrespectfully.

I was the target of vitriol from many, some of whom are slating others now for THEIR disrespectful posting styles. I do not accept that there are exclusively " nice posters" and "nasty posters" on these boards. I've been kicked by both ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I believe that to give succour to vanity advisors like BA is just as wrong as openly supporting affair-marriages. Not according to my morality but according to the likely effect of such on the vulnerable posters here.

BA clearly has a need to be respected as an advisor for some reason that even allows her / him to tolerate or ignore great opposition. And the advice he/she gives is at BEST bland and at worst disastrous ( re: manipulate the kids in a situation against OW).

Why is it OK for this person to get their kicks stroking their ego while demotivating earnest posters here ? In the case of SMB she feels STALKED by BA ! How "ok" is that ?

YES there is an ignore function and YES the mods do a great job, but we advise tens of concurrent situations on any given day and the mods can't be expected to police every one for helpfulness.

I think we have a a DUTY to make straight paths for MB advice to hit home in new posters situations, and that includes pointing out where others advice is contrary to it.

Finally I find it a bit ironic that some old posters comment on how bad the boards are right now, when if I remember correctly the FIRST MB boards were actually CLOSED DOWN because of trolling and internecine fighting. "Plus ca change, plus ce la meme chose".

All blessings

I actually posted a long post to this thread last night but the new boards and my inexperience with them made it disappear.

But I had to say this: I was Ninatoo here from 2001 to about 2004-5, member number 8000 and something, and had about 3000 posts I think. I did not post under that name because I forgot my password. I have not posted much since my return but I have read MUCH. Anyway I think I am qualified to say say that Orchid's posts haven't altered a bit, in tone, quality, or bias from when I was here until now.

She is an inspired and knowledgeable poster and has only ever tried to be of assistance to people in need, including me, in my time. Everything she has said on these boards and in these threads which are in question has been posted with honesty and IMHO for the benefit of the person in need.

I will never forget her lessons on WS babblespeak, which were right on the button but also so funny that we were able to actually LAUGH when our lives were crumbling around us. Read her links at the bottom of her posts: I am there. I STILL to this day use that method to talk to my X in his typically selfish foggy moments, and they are priceless times. Orchid, you saved my life, literally, by showing me that sometimes in the face of great tragedy there can STILL be laughter.

You posters who for some agenda of your own seem so determined to get rid of her, well, you are cutting off your noses to spite your faces, IMHO. She, and other Old Timers like her, who have Been There, Done That, have MUCH to offer. Please don't get on her case for being FAIR. She learned how to do FAIR through all of this crap we are engaged in here with the demise of our marriages. And she is REALLY good at it.

I just had to get that out.

I notice that no one here has mentioned the posters like TST and SMB...those that have stepped up and thanked us for the agressive approach with the trolls.

I also will say that I have been in contact (in the not so distant past) with mods on this baord regarding my postings. I will once again stand by what I write here and let it speak for itself.

I really would suggest that anyone that feels I am posting in a divisive way to contact Justuss. Please. Otherwise, your opinions about my posts fall are none of my business.

I believe ya. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Thanks anyway. It reminded me to go back and change it.

For all of you who choose to put trolls on ignore, you are also free to ignore any of us that choose NOT to put trolls on ignore. Instead, there are those (in this case Orchid) that continue to instruct others how to post.

If there is a 'mob mentality' here, I see it on both sides of the debate. Both sides have their heels dug in. If the ignore feature is the answer (for some) than feel free to use it, just don't expect everyone to follow your lead and post the way YOU do, to trolls or to anyone else for that matter.

Bob---I thought you were British??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> To correct a misconception, the original boards were never closed down. They had a couple of server crashes that corrupted the database that the old forum software used to use. You can still mine some of that fragmented stuff in the archives, if you're good... On the other hand, many of the user id's got corrupted, so "yes" does a lot of posting.

With regards to the aggressiveness of posting here, I believe that the board owners are concerned with this. We (Steve anb I) have talked in the past about how to balance the good with the bad here (on one hand, affairs have started on these board; on the other, successful new marriages have begun post divorce for others). We've discussed the harm of vent threads, the concern of pushing non-MB material (or 'anti-MB'), especially with regards to having it given as "Plan A" or "Plan B". I think the recent appointment of more moderators will be a step in the right direction, but this will take time.

it's my understanding that Steve reads here every day.

In this case the moderator/s who have been given the authority to address the terms of service and whether or not they are being broken by posting members have said:

Justuss wrote on 12/08/2007:

If you have concerns about any member being a "troll" on our forums, please email me. Tell me who, give me some links if you can, and I'll check it out.

If your concerns are valid, I'll either email that member or automatically ban them, if needed.

But in the meanwhile, please, either ignore those posts or give them the benefit of the doubt.

Are you (rhetorical you) going to continue to treat this forum as if it is the Wild West and that you are a law unto yourself who does not have to comply with the forum rules?

"A vigilante is a person who ignores due process of law and enacts his/her own form of justice when they deem the response of the authorities to be insufficient."

"American vigilantism arose in the Deep South and Old West during the 1700s when, in the absence of a formal criminal justice system, certain volunteer associations (called vigilance committees) got together to blacklist, harass, banish, "tar and feather, {...}"

I disagree that a mob mentality exists on both sides of this issue. There are people whose actions have shown that they have assumed the responsibility to drive out posters they have deemed "criminal". And like vigilantism, it doesn't stop there. Forum citizens who say "we may be hanging people too soon" have had the vigilante ire turned upon them.

Accusing someone like Mimi of throwing forum members under the bus simply because she disagreed with their tactics. Accusing Orchid with the nebulous charge of changing her tone and that she's just stirring the pot. Accusing Loving Anyway of psycho babbling, telling people to beware of her, and then adding some insidious insinuation that there is something about LA that we don't know (and evidently this person does) that would change people's good opinion of her. Starfish accused of having an "agenda" as an indication of the impurity of her participation as compared to those who seem to consider their motivations unquestionably pure.

Have you seen a pattern of behavior from those members listed above questioning the motivation of other posters - especially those with whom they disagree? Of hinting of nefarious information that if we only knew would cause us to think less of them? Of name calling, of hubris?

I haven't.

Can you point out to me where the above listed posters have engaged in a level of ongoing vitriol toward others - different people at different times?

As someone pointed out earlier - we don't see any of those above participants in constant, repeated battles with different people on a regular basis. Whose names do almost always appear in the eventually locked threads?

Just like on Sesame Street - One of these things is not like the other.

Graplin,

The BEST post on the topic yet!

But of course that is just my opinion...

Mark

It's my opinion too! Honorable mention to jayne241 for her insightful post.

Orchid, please don't leave.

PK

Jayne, you rock.

Graplin, I ditto Mark's post.

Nina, welcome back to MB.



MB principles are subject to our individual interpretation on each thread we post to...if you are the judge of what is bad advice, and justify aggressive posting to reject your definition of corrupt advice, then my days at MB really have come to an end.

Dr. Harley supports affair marriages...at his discretion, on his private board and in counseling. He applies MB principles to them. You know this. Yet you waged war on two of them aggressively, with vitrol yourself, this past year and a half. That's not MB principles as laid out by the founder. It conflicted with your own principle and you stand by yours.

That you subscribe to doing great harm in the name of not harming others is part of the troll issue. The corruption is in who is defining a troll, isn't it? Because four people say they are...refuse to use the ignore feature...and aggressively warn away posters from reading their advice, though they do not use the ignore feature themselves...is that not saying "Do as I say, not as I do?"
***felt stalked, targeted by **. *** is a valuable poster, as are the rest of the posters here...****didn't feel safe on MB with *** here, also. We learn here, on MB, through adversity as well as supportive posts...empowering them to ignore, to state outright, "I don't want you posting to my thread" rather than trying to warn off others again and again, on the same thread...seems to me to be an act of respect for the poster...even as we advise them to be radically honest in their marriages...to speak, share...act to their beliefs...not react to their fear, pain or anger.

To do it your way on MB is to say to others, "go at them, it's a righteous cause"...like saying to BS's here...go Lovebust, they deserve it...which would be the opposite of Plan A...where we guard our own integrity, change our stuff, so no matter the outcome of the marriage, our personal recovery is achieved...***edit*******

To add to this advice, that anyone who doesn't attack the trolls is a troll defender...is divisive. I know you know this. If you ain't with us, you're agin' us. Does that allow for everyone here on MB to have their own POVs, in the middle ground...where we decide on a case by case basis, who we choose to post to or not?

What I hear you saying in your post is to heck with the moderators...don't do what they direct us to do. You have told posters what to post, where to post it, and asked posters to leave. I don't see ************saying, "Hey, don't tell people how to post."

LA

graplin,


Reporting a post or using the ignore feature is not a requirement of the Board Rules. It is a suggestion.

Your vigilante logic is a bit over the top. No one on the board has the ability to censor, ban or otherwise remove another poster from the board with the exception of the moderators or administrators.

By your definition Orchid could also be labeled a vigilante for not leaving maggie's posts regarding BA up to the mods to deal with. She took "the law" into her own hands and tried to instill HER style of posting on maggie.

Sounds silly doesn't it. No, it sounds stupid. Because it is. Orchid is no board vigilante. Neither is medc, mel or anyone else.

The moderators do a great job on the board. If the Board Rules are broken, they quickly take action. Who do you believe is breaking the Board Rules? Have you reported them at this time?

Hi guys,
Since I am a newer member of the site, I wasn't aware of what kind of 'things' were going regarding this and Maggies post. After getting a feel for what is happening the only input I have is the following:

Since I have joined this forum, it has been extremely helpful and healing to me. I do know that there have been responses to my particular threads that do not go with the overall theme of what the majority posters, the MB website, and the books are saying. If the senior members see wrong things going on just follow the guidelines and let the powers that be take care of it. These threads that I have read from Maggie and Orchid are discouraging to the forum and brings and perpetuates a negative tone. No offense to either of them as they have both given me encouraging and good suggestions.

If we can all remember to focus on the positive, be kind to each other, and stop trying to control any situation that it will all work out for the best. Isn't it ironic that these are probably the same things we are doing in our marriages that our causing problems!

Well, this is just my feedback. I know that since I can hold up the mirror in front of me first before projecting on someone else, I have learned a lot about me and how I contribute to any situation!

I am coming out of lurkdom to say well done, ba109! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

LA,

I first responded to this thread because Orchid specifically addressed me in response to something I posted to her on another thread.

Trust me when I say, if BobPure were to try and tell me how to post, I would certainly take the issue up with him. To be honest, I don't read many of Bob's posts.

No offense Bob. It goes back to the tree and the forest thing.

But for the record. Bob, don't tell people how to post. There, I said it.