My FWH has a friend who's wife starts conversations with him when he calls over there. My FWH said he has only had a few conversations with her but the one I know of it was over 30 min. I think that's inappropriate especially since my husband has been unfaithful one already. We agreed that when he called he would get to the point ask for him then that is it. The other night he called to talk to his friend and she answered and said he wasn't there, she proceeded to ask my FWH how things have been, he answered with kidney stones, then of course started a whole new conversation, he asked her all the questions about stones he was going to ask her husband because he had them before. For one I think he was wrong to initiate a conversation with her and he should have just said oh nothing new, ok have so and so call me back, plus he told me NOT to tell anyone about his stones. I run a daycare and I was told not to tell my parents so when we went to the emergency room I had to come up with an excuse as to why our daughter was watching their kid, (we didn't know he had them yet) but even after he told me NOT to tell anyone, I didn't. My FWH says he was put on the spot when she asked him what's been going on, I don't get that, then he said, I didn't do anything wrong, he would have told her anyways about the stones and I thought maybe he already didm, plus it's my friends wife. So I think he was wrong, he obviously doesn't realize how affairs or EN's can start. It bothers me because if he claims he was put on the spot with that how do I trust him in other situations? Or is my mind just going crazy with imagining what could happen? I know my husband doesnt like to be rude and that got him into trouble 16 yrs ago when the neighbor girl had a thing for him, he couldn't tell her to leave him a lone, or to just drop what he was doing and come in the house when she came in the garage several times to see him, which this almost cost me to leave because she started to stir up trouble. I was sitting there when he called his friend and she answered, but when he started chatting with her I gave him a dirty look and he tried to quickly end it, so what if I wasn't there, how long would he have "chatted' with her. so am I overreacting to this, was he wrong or not, this is really upsetting me and ruining my holidays, am I being way to sensitive and imagining too much??? Please help Thanks

Still:

The answer to this question is likely "Yes. You're overreacting".

Having said that, you have a history here to be worried about. Your husband apparently has boundary issues. A good book for the two of you would be 'Give and Take'---it explains the Policy of Joint Agreement and would help you negotiate a set of behaviors the two of you could agree on when he gets of the phone with the friend's wife.

You have to do this in a way that builds love, not tears it down. I think your request is reasonable---but it's not what I think that counts. It's what your husband thinks about this too. Talk with him and see if you can come up with an enthusiastic agreement on how to handle this...

And don't let it ruin your holidays.

Thank you so much, SLH, for moving your post!!!

Want to ask you a question...which was asked of me early on here...

Do you want to be right or do you want to be married?

LA

Wait a minute. Her husband has a history of infidelity and disrespecting marital boundaries and you two are telling her she is wrong?

IMNSHO you are 100% correct to trust your gut. It is completely inapropriate for your H to have long conversations with his friends W. Get the book "Boundaries in Marriage" by Cloud and Townsend AND the book "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass. I would also recommend you look into some counseling with the Harley's.

God bless and Merry Christmas.

thanks so much for your opinions. I would like to read the book on boundries but I know FWH wont. We have set boundries or so I thought, this was one of them. I think he thinks because I was sitting there it was ok, but what if I wasn't here. How do you set boundries when you think something not ok and they don't agree? he wont even listen to my opinion, he flat out says she put me on the spot, and he said it didn't matter because he doesn't have an interest in talking with her, whatever that means, he wouldn't have started the conversation. I don't understand you said I am overreacting but then you said he has boundry issues, if he has boundry issues shouldn't this be considered that I'm not overreacting? I'm confused. What makes you think I'm not overreacting, I'm curious because I'm having a very hard time since finding out about his ONS 16 yrs ago what's appropriate and whats not, things I never would have thought was inappropriate I do now, so i don't really know when I'm overreacting or not.
Loving, I do want to be married and I don't always expect to be right, but I do expect him to at least hear me out, and in a conflict like this when you can't agree what do you do? and if he does have boundry issues, and we set boundries how do I know he's following them when I'm not around. When he went to call his friend back he made sure I was there but because he didn't want to be put in a situation he said you call and get him on the phone, well that's stupid because he should be able to control it and then she'll be suspicious.
faithful thanks you seem to really understand where I'm coming from I mean I know that he doesn't"like" this guys wife and nothing would happen and I know that but he still doesn't see how these things could lead to something if it was someone else. I feel so hurt and afraid now about the boundry issues it really scares me. I love him and I know he loves me but I feel like when he wont listen to how I feel and when we can't come to an agreement it really puts a wall in between us. thanks again

SLH,

So you had already POJA'd this boundary...what was it exactly?

Was it that he doesn't speak to other women (included the married couples you are friends with) period? Was it that he doesn't speak on the phone, email or in person with single females? Was it that he doesn't speak intimately (discuss feelings, your marriage) with other women, including married wives you are friends with as a couple?

Do kidney stones count? I'm of the age when sadly, this may be a topic (see AmIOK here talking about her first kidney stone...and I'm way older than her). In one of your posts on in Resolving Conflict forum, sounded to me like it was the duration of the conversation which violated the boundary...30 minutes once, as I recall.

This conversation you were present for...so you heard the subject matter. You fear not being present and having them talk for 30 minutes...understandable. Help me out with the specific boundary you guys agreed to which he violated.

I do understand that your H has an issue with not knowing the difference between being rude and understanding that he could say, "I know my wife and I are friends with you and your husband. We have a marital boundary of not speaking (at length, or subject matter and length) to members of the opposite sex. I know you'll support us in this healthy boundary so in the future, when I call for your husband and you answer, I won't stay on the phone past ascertaining his availability or not. We appreciate your friendship."

You could say the exact same thing to her, too. To them both.

Best marital boundaries are to have friends of the marriage...you be friends of their marriage, and they of yours. If your H is only friends with the husband, and you don't hang out or speak with the wife, is that helpful to their marriage? To yours?

Overreacting? Your emotions are valid. Your fear is valid, as well. As I said...you're only one year into recovery from finding out about his past infidelity...and you've said in the last year, he's chosen to be transparent with you, rebuild your trust...and this boundary violation didn't wipe all of that out...reasonable fear. Was his ONS with the wife of a friend? A stranger?

Please take FF's suggestion to read the book she suggested. Supports your fear as reasonable, and would help you with your boundary setting.

I also heard another boundary you have...the one where you hear out your H fully, and enforce when he doesn't hear you. Harley believes there's no issue which can't be POJA'd. That's Policy of Joint Agreement...because you keep brainstorming ideas until you hit on one that you both agree on. POJA'ing boundaries is terrific for your marriage.

Sounds also like when he went to call his friend back, he chose to make sure you were present. He was concerned for your stuff...his issue is in understanding what polite really is...and what friendship means. He even POJA'd with the suggestion, which acknowledged and validated your fear, that you call for his friend and then he'd get on the phone.

In my book, that's care and consideration. Your fear of what if you're not there is reasonable...takes more working together to get there.

You require him to control it and her not to be suspicious? Do you want to participate in dishonesty? Why not tell her straight up? This isn't harmful to her...or his friend. It's about you and your marriage.

And you're right...when it comes to boundaries, doesn't matter if you're attracted to another person or not...boundaries are predetermined, so that you aren't making them up on the spot. Can take practice saying them aloud, getting to hear yourselves...for both of you.

You can do that together...as an act of love for your marriage. Your inconsideration that this is difficult for him, maybe given to embarrassment...which is fear of the unknown and expectations of miscommunication...where's your consideration, hearing him, validating his feelings and thoughts?

Boundaries go around us, as individuals...so if you have the boundary of hearing his thoughts, feelings, beliefs and perceptions...his POV...validating and acknowledging them...then you can enforce that boundary when he discounts, doesn't hold to it. You can't if you're not holding yourself to them.

The rule of care...you can read on this website. Same for rule of time, policy of radical honesty (which I think is at the core of your fear) and the policy of joint agreement.

What was your recovery plan a year ago? Are you following it through? Did it include counseling, reading books, doing exercises...do you feel like now you have a truly honest, intimate marriage?

Then this is working out together the healthy boundaries...remember, everything is harmful when taken to an extreme...either too much or not enough. You're shooting for reasonable middle ground...from respect, I hope. And truth. And love.

Why do you assume H won't read a book? Have you tried giving him books on CD before? You said he demonstrated remorse, rebuilt your trust...and now you're handling your marriage (seems to me) with conscious care. Sounds to me like he is to...he's asking for your help with something difficult for him...whether you think it should be or not...it is...and he gave you ideas to help him protect you.

LA

FF,

Great assumptions you got going there.

LA

Not necessary LA.

SLH,

Dr. Harley's books are on CD and DVD now. Look up at the top of this page and see the bookstore tab. If your H is not a reader and some men are not, he may be willing to watch the DVD's with you or listen to the CD's. What I believe you are trying to convey to your H is putting your feelings above others. He gets caught by this friend's W on the phone and does not want to hurt her feelings. Understandable but not at the expense of your feeling secure. Have you at least printed out the basic concepts to read together?

The book on boundaries was for you. To help you learn to set and keep your own boundaries. It is important for you to understand that boundaries are all about you. It was not until after the end of this last A of my H's that he finally "got" why he cannot have female friendships.

IMHO if your spouse is more concerned about being 'rude' to another woman than he is about causing you to feel unsafe, then there is a problem.

He is only assuming that the women might feel offended/rejected/whatever if he doesn't give them the attention.

And he has been informed by you what you feel like when he behaves that way.

But he chooses to continue behaving that way, chooses to cause you needless hurt and fear, because he'd rather hurt you than to MAYBE offend them?

Unacceptable IMHO and NO you are not overreacting. His decision to be more concerned for the feelings of other women than he is for your feelings is something you are understandably not happy with.

Maybe the next time he uses the not wanting to be rude to the other women defense you should ask him if he cares more about their feelings than he does about yours?