Because they can't see their own blessings staring them in the face.

RU,

I wish that there were concrete steps to recovery - I would have walked them.

I have been in the pit. I cried in that pit, and tried to crawl under the bed, I hid in the closet, and tried to just vanish from the world somehow......it doesn't happen. You keep living every day because you have children, because you are alive, because you must.

This pain will pass, RU. I promise you that this pain will pass.

Every day, a little bit of it will be chewed off by the time, by the learning, by the will of living, and you will rise again

stronger
smarter

I promise.

Your marriage CAN recover from this affair, and it actually can rise from the ashes of this betrayal in a way that makes you and your husband better at communicating, better at loving one another.

It is possible.

My husband and I are a success story. And no, we did not pay for counseling sessions.

I will be back in a little bit to tell you how we did it.

SB.

We followed MB principles.

First, we committed to the marriage, as we both agreed that we did not want a divorce. Sure, there were many days that I felt like it would probably have been easier - emotionally and otherwise - to have walked away and started over elsewhere. But it wasn't what I WANTED. I loved my husband, despite his affair, despite it all. And I knew that somehow, despite his affair and his messed up thinking, that he loved me. So we decided that we would give this thing the time - the TWO YEARS THAT THE EXPERTS SAID IT WOULD LIKELY TAKE - and work on it.

Once the commitment to work on the marriage together was there, we had the foundation for the rest.

I began reading books about recovering marriages after affairs. My husband was quite reluctant to do so. At one point, I told him that if he did not start doing his share of the lifting, the experts said that I would leave him - because I would grow resentful and frustrated - and I was growing resentful and frustrated. I gave him the book I read that in.

He began doing his share of the lifting that very evening, and has ever since. Because although he was committed in the marriage, he really didn't KNOW what to "do". He began sharing in activities with me.

The one book that he did feel comfortable with the activities in was "Relationship Rescue" by Dr. Phil, because it is one in which the talking is quite limited, both parties get an open forum of uninterrupted time, and the questions are NOT focused on affair-talk. Also, it limits the talking to one topic at a time, and there are strict rules on the talking. You might want to look at this book closely, do the "self-work" up front, and then ask your husband to participate in the question parts at the back of the book once you read and do the first part of the book. It was very helpful in homing in on my own problematic behaviors, and getting me to stop some of them.

We used strict communication rules in talking about the affair. At first, without the rules, we tended to exhaust ourselves, and the "talks" ended up being marathons. I would go crazy, crying and breaking down; he would just lose it because he didn't know what to do to help me, what to say, how to answer questions without upsetting me further. Yet, he knew I needed answers, and he wanted to go through that process. I wanted answers, but I couldn't go through the process in an orderly fashion without LB (Love Busters), or without just losing my composure and becoming self-deprecating, depressed, or blaming him/me, or the whole thing just degenerating into a lost cause altogether.

So I came up with "the rules", which are on my thread, and I did bump that up for you. I encourage you to read it, and stick to the rules when you two talk about the affair. You two have to have some guidelines in your discussions, because you have to take the emotion out of the scene to the greatest extent possible in order to make progress in getting your questions answered, and in order to make communication between the two of you safe for both parties again.

We used the time rules of spending 15 hours a week together as NO AFFAIR TALK TIME - and that was a strict rule. We needed that time to learn about one another again, to date, to give each other time to show the other kindness, love, and gentleness. Time for Plan A togetherness for one another. And we took that time. It didn't cost anything most of the time. We went for rides on our motorcycle, to get a cup of coffee in another nearby town, or to visit a wildflower farm. Just time together, without anybody else, like we did when we first met. Strange to say, but at first that time was HARD to carve out - now, we guard it preciously and greedily against all intruders.


And we talked. Gingerly at first. We were just getting to know each other, after all. We were afraid to say anything "wrong". We were walking on eggshells. We were trying to put our best foot forward, wondering if this would upset the other one, or if that would bother the other one. And one day, one of us said (I can't remember who!)

"I can't live like this anymore. I can't live like I don't know you. I can't live walking on eggshells, worried that I might upset you, or you won't like this or that. I just want to be myself and have you love me."

And the other said, "Me too."

And we laughed, because it was true - we just wanted to love each other easy.

So we talked using the rules about how we were to love each other easy.

And the talks changed that day, from what the affair was about

to what our love and marriage was about

and what we wanted in life

and what we loved about each other.........


and now, we don't need "the talks" anymore.


Because you see, we learned to talk and walk and live through this pain. We communicated through it, and loved through it, and just walked on those hot coals every stinking day until those hot coals burned out.

It was not easy.

But somehow, it happened.


But there is NOT a path laid out for you. My path was mine.

Please, read the material on this website. It made the daily difference in my marriage. The forums saved my sanity, because the people who post here have all been through this mess, too. One aspect of it or another, they have been through it - some have divorced, some have recovered, some have been wayward, some betrayed. (Please be aware of who you listen to - there are trolls here, and people who are in affair-marriages, or others or who have children by other people outside their marriage, or liars, or others who might encourage non-marriage-builders advice. - We do try to let you know about them when they come along, though.)

Read every single thread on the forums, too. Read the advice of posters you don't like - sometimes those are the very people who are giving the advice you might need to hear, because sometimes it's not WHAT they say, it's the delivery you don't like - try to read past the delivery and look at the message itself. Keep your mind open.

And use this place to vent your hurt, anger, frustration, and joys - and YES, you will have joys - as you ride this roller coaster of recovery.

It isn't for sissies. But your children will thank you, and you will thank yourself about two years from now, when you're through this rough place, and your life is getting back in the groove.

Hang on.

SB

FH,

You're right - I hope RU listens to everything good on MB, and is able to learn from what is here. I know that this system worked for me, but it wasn't easy to hear some things, especially at first.

Tough lessons.

SB

Schoolbus i have never read any of your advice but let me just say it was very incouraging and hopeful that even without the aid of a counselor that anything is possible. Than you for your post and i am glad i found it here.

bella,

I followed MB principles. The Harleys were my counselors, in that they outlined the path, wrote the books, give the radio program, and allowed me to access this forum and website for free.

I credit them with most of the recovery, because without this plan, I most likely would have been a divorce statistic. I would not have known how to recover my marriage.

Read this site.
Read the posts.

Follow the advice of the Harleys, and read their books, as well as other books.

And work hard at your marriage. Come here and ask for help.

Also, be sure to look at who is posting advice to you. If the person is new to the forum, they aren't as likely to know the MB way - so be sure you're getting MB advice and not something from someone just giving you their own opinion. While people's opinions DO matter, when it comes to a Plan, you want something with some research and professional help behind it, don't you? Not a faceless person just coming here and giving you advice. So I went with what Dr. Harley had to say, and I read a lot here.

I went with the advice of folks here who followed the MB plans, the MB advice, and those whose opinions made good solid sense based on LONG TERM MEMBERSHIP HERE. These are the people who seemed to have the best foundation in building a marriage using good sound principles.

I believe that is why my marriage recovered.

I'm sorry you are here, Bella. Have you started a thread of your own?

SMB and Jewel,

Did you tell your children?

Hi,

I'm not SMB or Jewel but my son was 6 when it happened and he knew enough to know his dad had friends that were not friends of our family. This greatly upset him and even at 6 he knew his father should NOT have a GF. So about 4 months after d/d, he wrote his dad a 4 sentence letter. 2 questions and 2 statements. It was his idea and he composed the letter I just helped him spell a few words (i.e. divorce). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.

Yes schoolbus my thread is called hanging in there..... i am not sure how to past it into my siggy but it is somewhere on the threads.... i have to post to it again so hopefully it will bump up. Thank you again.

Orchid-

Did you tell your son or was the situation so overt that you had no choice but to explain it to him? I haven't told any of my 4 children (ages 6-11), but I wonder whether or not I should. I'll be asking SH when we talk again next week.

My children do not know what happened in my situation. Exposure did not happen because the affair was stopped immediately. The situation in my house was that at the very point that I found out, my husband was diagnosed with cancer and chaos ensued. I could not handle much more, and so my father had a heart attack to add to the pile of fun.

I was in dire need of help - and my oldest daughter was in a depressed episode at the time. To add to that might have pushed her into a problem that I could not have dealt with (and she did not need to do, either), so we made a decision to deal with the issue between us and the OW's side. Some of our closest friends know, but not our family, as there are illnesses (my dad's heart is one, and my H's dad is not coherent so there was no point exposing there).

My younger daughter is really the only family member at the time who I probably should have told, and she recognized that there were major issues befalling me. She stepped up to the plate, and was there for me, without asking details. I am pretty sure she knows something happened, but is the kind of person who is quite private (although she leads a VERY public life, strange...). She wrote me a song, which tells me she knows. I think she gave that to me as her way of giving me the support I needed at the time, yet the privacy to deal with it all in the way I needed as well.

It is very difficult when dealing with people in crisis, both mental and physical illness. At the time, I didn't know what to do. Exposure wasn't the important issue - saving my husband's life was, getting my dad the care he needed (he also had cancer, BTW), and getting our lives back on track were the big issues.

I truly do not know how I made it through the first few months. I read here, certainly.

But the "exposure" concept wasn't something I ran across until much later. Initially, it seemed to me to be something that one used to stop ongoing affairs, continued contact, etc. That was not the problem in my sitch. Contact stopped on d-day, and NEVER resumed, not one peep between the two of them, ever.

I spy.

Which was something recommended, and I did. Occasionally, now, I get the fears, so I might still look. There's nothing to see.

Now, I wonder if exposure would have been a good idea for us. I think people would have been confused, given that the type of cancer my husband had virtually gave us no chance for SF ever again - I worried that the support would have been "mourning my loss" and not "supporting my marriage". I didn't need that.

Now, he IS able to have SF, and has fully recovered, with the help of medical science and prayer. (More like me begging God above every single night!)

So I don't know if I did the right thing with not fully exposing this or not, but my marriage IS recovered. We are together, and the family is fine.

I guess I didn't follow this rule of MB, but I don't know that it was that important in my personal case, given the life circumstances and type of affair I had to deal with.


SB

Orchid,

I have the same question - was the adultery so blatant and your 6 yr old figured it out before the affair ended?

Mine are around your son's age and younger, but none have any idea anything happened...other than mommy is upset quite a bit of the time. My step-daughter is 16 yrs...which I guess it wouldn't be my call to tell her.

The affair has ended now, but I was wondering if they should be told.

Thanks,
RU

Hi RU and crew,

The issue of exposure is one that you'll notice the Harley's have not really addressed here. There's virtually nothing on the web site with it (except with regard to exposing to your wayward spouse). In SAA, there's little mention except with the option of sending a copy of the Plan B letter to the OP as well as the WS. When I was counseling with Steve, my exposure started with my wife. I then exposed to her only sister. When I went to Plan B---parents on both sides were told. My kids weren't.

Exposure is wielded as a tool to end the affair. It's not used in all situations, nor is it used widespread and indiscriminately. It may cause more issues with regards to recovery than is worth. This is something I'd definitely consider---and for 14thgpr, it's worth having that conversation with Steve.

Road,

The decision to tell children varies amongst posters. The lesson I learned is when my 6 year old told me: 'mom, kids don't like to be lied to.' <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Imagine that..... children are aware their parents and others sometimes lie to them.... for what... to protect them?

I asked my son why.... he told me directly: 'mom, parents tell kids not to lie then they do. why? We don't like that.'

I asked him was that just his opinion alone? He said no. Kids talk about it even in school or daycare and in other situations.

So when dealing with the A, I learned that my son needed his personal support group and I needed mine. Together we needed one as well. We each participated in each other's support group.

I let my son know that I would be honest with him but due to his age, I would have to limit what I shared but that I respected his support. That little tyke got it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I am sooo proud of him. He reminded me that kids knew more of what is going on than adults realized. Hm..... that made me improve my communication style with him. It exists to this day. He doesn't like it when I put some restrictions on him (i.e. tv shows, movies, association, etc.), he just turned 13..... but he understands the reasons and we work together to help him move forward.

So to your question about telling your child.... start by asking your child what he thinks about subjects like lying and trust. Get his input and then decide how and what to tell him.

JMHO,
L.

There are also other things to consider with kids. How much they understand is important - for example, a child with certain special needs might not fully comprehend certain issues, and might need a different type of explanation. If you have this situation, it might help to ask a professional how to explain it to the child, so they can understand the situation in a way that isn't too upsetting or confusing to them.

I agree with limiting things depending on the age of the kid. One thing you might try is answering the question the child asks - and instead of long explanations, answer only the question at hand. Too often, adults want to give these looonnnnggg explanations, and the children are looking for a short answer, just the surface question answered. Adults tend to read in more than there might be to the question and answer more in-depth than is needed.

You might try letting the child be the guide, and they will pretty much lead you through what they want to know. As they understand one aspect, they may come back for more information as they process what they have been told. Then, answer the new questions. It can unfold for them, and if you create a safe environment for them to ask questions and get answers that are calm and easy for them to understand, they will tend to come back when they are ready for more information. Younger kids do this, but as they get older, you might see different responses. Teens are the least predictable, and you'll have to know about the individual and work with them to help them through it. If you have a teen who needs to be told, it might help to have counseling ready.

SB

RU,

I did tell all my children. I talked with each one individually. I talked with them when FWH refused to end affair and had left. If the affair had ended and he was working with me for recover at that time, I don't think I would have told them anything other than mommy and daddy love each other but are working at making our marriage better.

I told my 7 and 9 yos that, "Although mommy got married for ever, daddy did not." Then I told them that daddy had a girlfriend, wants a divorce, and is moving out. It was the hardest thing I've EVER done in my entire life...and the most painful.

I told my middle child (11 yos) a little more detail. I told my 13 yod and 17 yos a lot more information.

I could not accept the world's view of telling my children that "mommy and daddy just don't love each other anymore and so are getting a divorce." That's just hogwash. We spent years teaching our children God's view of marriage. There was no way I was going to turn around and tell them that "sometimes couples fall out of love and divorce is then OK." I wanted them ALL to know that their daddy was battling with sin and, therefore, making choices that were outside of God's will. And that God's truth is always truth, no matter how shady someone (even daddy) wants to make it.

Now my children are learning about God's forgiveness, mercy, grace, restoration, healing, miracles, and so much more as they witness God putting their family back together.

SMB,

My kids are all soooooo much younger than that. My oldest was the age of your youngest at the time.

I guess if it were still ongoing, I would need to say something. As is...I'll just see what happens.

Thanks.

Hi RoadUntraveled,

I haven't posted to you and have a special favor. I've bypassed this thread and missed a goldmine of info because I thought it was deleted.

Could you please repost something in the first part of this thread so it does not show as deleted.

I must go but will be back later to read and maybe post. You're getting such good advice that I can only encourage you. So I will. Keep Going Road.....you can do this!

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{RoadUntraveled and family}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Ace

RU, are you a SAHM?

My children overheard the dday bomb being dropped. (by the SO of a family member, nonetheless)

My younger 3 kids were ages 6, turning 4 the next day, and 17 mos. They didn't understand what was going on.

However, my then 4 yr old would say that he hated person "x" (who told me) "because he took our family away".

With your children's ages, you don't have to say anything. If the older one asks, just give honest answers on the level of maturity that the child is.

The others are probably to little to ask or understand. But be careful that they don't think that they're the reason for your sadness and being upset. Children internalize their parents' emotions at those tender ages.

Jewel