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This is MrsGGW writing about an issue that has kept me up all night, and troubled me much of the day.
Should MB members post personal information, such as names and other identifying data, on their profiles? I am thinking it is a terrible thing for MB to allow this!
I recently read one member’s profile and quickly realized that I could quickly Google quite a bit of information about him/her, which I did. Within 2 minutes, I knew the name of the husband, the wife, where both of them lived and worked, the names of their children (and the sports/hobbies they enjoyed), where both spouses had gone to high school, the names of their siblings and their parents, when some of the parents had died, the names/addresses/phone numbers of their employers, their volunteer responsibilities in the community, and so on.
Now, for someone to make this choice on his or her own behalf is one thing, I suppose. But this individual is also exposing his/her spouse, and his/her children … family members … and all of their circle … to a whole world of potential vileness … and for what?
What particularly worries me, is that bios often contain information that may or may NOT be true. For instance, if a member gave a “real” name, and then wrote something particularly hideous … That person has no way of defending him or herself.
Isn’t this slander? Shouldn’t MB be preventing this from happening? Ought not real names be prohibited from this site?
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My wife is now dearly wishing she'd titled her post something more like: "I caught my husband *** another woman" or something a little more attention-getting.
Her point is, anyone online can use any name at all, real or fictitious, in their profile. The information they do post, is assumed to be true about individuals real and living IRL, and may have problematic consequences, but there is no way to verify -- as a result it is a problem to include names.
What do you all think about that?
Mr GGW
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ggw & wife, Her title is catchy enough. It is just as important to keep the title true to the initial subject matter of the thread. The profile info is in the control of the poster when they sign up. The content of the posts is also in the control of the poster and in this day and age anything can go into print. Still it is common courtesy to keep info anonymous. When this isn't done, then yes id c/b compromise. Is it slander? Well 'slander is generally spoken defamation, while ‘libel’ is written.' So the question is probably.... is it libel? You can research this question on the web. Here's one I found: http://legalcatch.wordpress.com/2007/02/17/defamation-and-slander-on-the-internet/While I can empathize with your concern, it makes me wonder what happened to lead you to this point? You started posting in August 2007 as a BS and now your W is posting as a _________? An update w/b nice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> take care, L.
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Mrs. GGW - there is nothing "harmless" about Adultery. LOTS of people are affected by the choice of the WS to engage in adultery, most often with a concern for no one but themselves.
If a member chooses to post personal information about their real names, etc., that is their choice. The possible "ramifications" are most often actually "consequences" of a choice to have an Affair.
I, personally, do not think it's a good idea to post personal information, but that choice, as all choices, remains with the individual. NO ONE is "required" to post their real information in the profile, and if you look at MB, the vast majority of members post under a pseudonym, just like I do.
For most Wayward Spouses, who are trying to recover their marriages, they don't "want" the reality of their past choices blasted all over the place because they view it as "unnecessary" punishment. Generally speaking, Exposure of an Affair is a "Tool" to help assist in ending an active affair by bringing what was being done in the dark, in secret, into the light.
After the affair has ended, knowledge of the affair, in my humble opinion, should be on a "need to know" basis in order to facilitate recovery.
Now with respect to your question; "Now, for someone to make this choice on his or her own behalf is one thing, I suppose. But this individual is also exposing his/her spouse, and his/her children … family members … and all of their circle … to a whole world of potential vileness … and for what?", THIS is the very question, for what? that a WS needs to ask themselves about the WHY of their choice to engage in the ultimate betrayal of infidelity. What did their choice FOR committing adultery expose their family, etc., to, and for what?
God bless.
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Dear Orchid, from whose posts I have learned a great deal,
Thank you for reminding me of the difference between libel and slander; I wrote the post late at night and had been upset for most of the day, hence I was careless with my word choices. If you would like to read about our family situation, it is posted in its entirety on our original thread, and there is really no new news. MrGGW posted as a BS, I post as his FWW, and we use the same account because it makes things easier for us, and perhaps easier for others to advise if they would like to -- Is there anything specific that you would like to know?
We both read much and post little.
I would like to thank you in particular for your postings about "Babble" and "Reverse Babble," which have been tremendously useful with our teenagers, especially a troubled one; The use of "Reverse Babble" really forced her to think, during conversations, and helped burst her bubble. It was almost immediately effective, and if I had not read about that method here, I would have been months (or even years) behind. Regrettably, there is no place on this site to share with you the success I had applying MB principles to childrearing over the summer, but I thank you from my heart. -- Mrs GGW
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Dear ForeverHers, whose commentary we have appreciated so much in the past:
FH, my point is really that anyone can come online, and put up anyone else's name ... at all, even Y O U R S ! (heaven forbid). For instance, someone can post an ID as your wife, using your wife's name, publish all kinds of personally identifying information, and claim that you, FH, are having an affair with an AIDS-infected meth addict.
Right now, at this site, there is someone who is doing something similar to that, to what end, who knows?
There is nothing at all to prevent that from happening. As Orchid points out, courtesy dictates that people maintain anonymity. But this is a private site, and I am bewildered as to why the administrators do not prevent this from happening.
There is no one to verify that the poster actually is the person s/he claims to be. There is no way to verify the information about the spouse, children, etcetera.
This is what I find particularly appalling.
MrsGGW
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And THAT is when the "Moderator Alert" button comes in handy!
We have had several posters that post by a "real" name, post the names, addresses, phone numbers, occupations, etc of themselves, their spouse or the OP, either without thinking or in anger. If I see it, I immediately delete it. If I receive an "alert" I delete it as soon as I'm online. If I don't discover it and no one lets me know, not much I can do, right? I do this to protect the poster. MB is NOT responsible, according to the VERY plainly stated TOS agreed when registering for this site.
JustUss
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FH, my point is really that anyone can come online, and put up anyone else's name ... at all, even Y O U R S ! (heaven forbid). For instance, someone can post an ID as your wife, using your wife's name, publish all kinds of personally identifying information, and claim that you, FH, are having an affair with an AIDS-infected meth addict (God forbid). Mrs.GGW - of course, in the realm of "possibilities," someone COULD do as you argue. However, in my particular case, it would be very difficult to do as I maintain my anonymity on the system. Anyone COULD come on as a "Troll" and try to cause problems, but that's not anymore difficult than someone who WANTS to engage in identity theft from getting your personal information and doing something harmful to you. Those who DO know you will know, or can be shown fairly easily, that the "imposter" is not you. Right now, at this site, there is someone who is doing something similar to that, to what end, who knows? I don't know who you are referring to, but if there is someone who you suspect of violating the TOS, you can report it to the Mods (like Justuss2) and they WILL "take care of the problem, up to and including erasing posts and banning someone from the system. There is nothing at all to prevent that from happening. As Orchid points out, courtesy dictates that people maintain anonymity. But this is a private site, and I am bewildered as to why the administrators do not prevent this from happening.
There is no one to verify that the poster actually is the person s/he claims to be. There is no way to verify the information about the spouse, children, etcetera.
This is what I find particularly appalling. One of the potential "hazards" of a free site. Like most things in life, it CAN be abused. But it's a free system and there is no need to reveal personal information to the Owners of the system, or anyone else, for that matter. There are no charges to participate and all the system offers is a place where people can CHOOSE to participate or not participate without someone playing the "policeman" of the system and requiring personal information that someone might not want to divulge in order to be "granted" the right to participate. Nothing is "perfect," but the "onus" is on the participants as to what they want to reveal and what they don't want to reveal. I know that if I ran across someone attempting to "impersonate" me and reveal private information that I didn't want revealed, it wouldn't take me long to alert the Moderator and, as I have seen in the past, no time for them to ACT to protect the members. Maybe not the best answer you are looking for, but the only one that I think works with a free and open system as designed by the owners. God bless.
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ooops. I see Justuss was posting while I was typing. My bad. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
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Now, for someone to make this choice on his or her own behalf is one thing, I suppose. But this individual is also exposing his/her spouse, and his/her children … family members … and all of their circle … to a whole world of potential vileness … and for what? For support during a devastating time. I encourage people to protect their anonymity on the internet because there are some sick people online and a small number of them have chosen to become online stalkers. But there really are people who purposely choose not to be anonymous. I don't see an online identity being more vulnerable than attending meat life AA meetings, SA meetings or group therapy or FITB that involves other people who can find out who you are. Anyone in those meetings could later tell people in your community lies about what you have said during the meeting. What particularly worries me, is that bios often contain information that may or may NOT be true. For instance, if a member gave a “real” name, and then wrote something particularly hideous … That person has no way of defending him or herself. I'm not sure what would comprise "particularly hideous", but if someone signed up with another's real name and address and a bio that included "loves kiddie porn" - then I am sure that the mods would delete that immediately upon notification. The reality is that anyone who knows you and has a gripe against you can impersonate you on the internet. A bio on an internet forum is small potatoes compared to having someone set up a website with pics of you, your personal information, scandalous allegations about you and submitting it to various search engines so that it would show up whenever your name is typed in. Is it possible that someone could set up a form account specifically using someone's real name, address, etc? Yes. But the fact that this forum (and hundreds of other internet forums) hasn't experienced numerous complaints of impersonation with the intent to harm, would be an indication that it might not have the impact you are fearing. Is there something specific that has triggered your concern to the point of losing sleep?
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Dear Justuss,
In my culture and religion, it is not permitted to deliberately "call someone out" in public, nor to shame or humiliate them, but it is permitted to "call to someone's attention" a problem, when they can do something appropriate. Thank you very much for letting me know how to do that the right way here.
You have mail!
MrsGGW
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You are very welcome MrsGGw. Please feel free to email me with any question, concern or suggestion. All that goes for ALL MBers! I'm not online 24/7 (my job actually expects me to work sometimes!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />) but I will respond as soon as possible. The moderator alert is on the bottom of each post--the third icon beside "post extras" with the circle and cross bar. Not very identifiable is it, unless you happen to run your mouse across it! Please keep in mind when you send an "alert" I only get a copy of that post. It's not always evident WHY you found that post objectionable. If the post itself isn't obvious, feel free to send email stating why the post is offensive. And thanks to all those to try to help keep this a safe place!
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Thank you, Justuss, from my heart!
Orchid wrote: “it makes me wonder what happened to lead you to this point?” (I think you are asking, why do I care so much about this issue?)
Graplin wrote: “Is there something specific that has triggered your concern to the point of losing sleep?”
Actually, I emailed an individual poster here, who had left identifying information on a profile, because I believed that I knew the family and community involved, and could offer specific leads and advice. We exchanged emails, actually. And then my husband and I got to talking, and I realized to my horror that actually, I do not really have any idea who I am talking to, or whether any of this information is true or not, it could be an imposter or heaven only knows who, and I was really rather mortified and ashamed of myself. Really!
While the world is big in many ways, in other respects it is very small. I was terribly upset to realize that my thinking has been contaminated about people that I do not know well, but about whose families and communities I really do know quite, quite well. That really and truly is the byproduct of libel, and that is what libel is all about.
So, I am very ashamed of myself, and I am not really quite sure who to apologize to except that I know it is a result of believing posted information, which I ought not to have done. I knew that I had to take some action to rectify the situation, but was not sure what could be done, without extending the libel.
That is why I was distressed and lost sleep, other people might not but I did.
Justuss came to the rescue, and I am quite grateful.
MrsGGW
MrGGW (who is at work) has asked me to post the following question:
What would you do if you found information of a scandalous nature posted online, about people that you knew, or whose families you knew?
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MrGGW (who is at work) has asked me to post the following question:
What would you do if you found information of a scandalous nature posted online, about people that you knew, or whose families you knew? This has happened to me twice since I've been a member. The first time was because personal info was offered and the second was adding up all their info, including first names & loc. I didn't consider any of the info "scandalous" because of what I have been through. Trust me when I tell you my situation was extremely severe. I contacted the person above in RL who included personal info on their post/profile, and they immediatley removed it and thanked me. Jo
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Mrs. GGW, I am very paranoid of having my identity discovered which is why I do not disclose personal (location, job, age and other specific) info. I'm even contemplating deleting specific stories revealing hobbies related to challenges, but many of those edits are locked now. I told many about this web site before I realized that these forums were here and before I even considered seeking help here. So my greatest fear is that family or friends might discover my FWH's 'indiscretion' before we tell them...if we ever do. On thought about your title, though......my impression of the acronym "TMI" usually relates to personal info of a physical nature (bodily features/functions, etc.) so I didn't relate the actual topic at first. I do think this raises very relevant concerns that devastated 'in-shock' posters may not realize when first registering. Maybe you might tweak the title a bit so others might benefit from the discussion. Also....... Mrs. GGW said: Dear Orchid, from whose posts I have learned a great deal,
....We both read much and post little.
I would like to thank you in particular for your postings about "Babble" and "Reverse Babble," which have been tremendously useful with our teenagers, especially a troubled one; The use of "Reverse Babble" really forced her to think, during conversations, and helped burst her bubble. It was almost immediately effective, and if I had not read about that method here, I would have been months (or even years) behind. Regrettably, there is no place on this site to share with you the success I had applying MB principles to childrearing over the summer, but I thank you from my heart. -- Mrs GGW Your post inspired me to start a related thread on the OT (Other Topic) forum. It's entitled What OTHER areas has MB helped you? What have you learned from Orchid and others that may have improved different areas of your life?Again, thanks for your timely thread. Ace
FWH/BW (me)57+ M:36+ yr.
4 D-Days: Jun-Nov 06 E/PA~OW#2 (OW#1 2000)
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Dear Justuss,
In my culture and religion, it is not permitted to deliberately "call someone out" in public, nor to shame or humiliate them, but it is permitted to "call to someone's attention" a problem, when they can do something appropriate. Thank you very much for letting me know how to do that the right way here.
MrsGGW Mrs.GGW, This is very interesting. Presuming your husband is of the same culture and religion, am I to suppose that you will be taking Mr.GGW to task for his feeble attempt to "call me out and attempt to shame and humiliate me" elsewhere here on GQII this evening????? It's edited out by Justuss now...but perhaps he can relate the contents to you. Peace be with you. God bless, Mr. Wondering
FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered
"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Dear MrW,
I do not "take my husband to task" for anything, since he is my husband, and not my child.
If you feel that someone has unfairly and publicly called attention to a mistake that you made, and that you were unduly shamed and humiliated, then the thing to do is to address it directly with that individual.
That is really the only good advice I can give you.
MrsGGW
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I do not "take my husband to task" for anything, since he is my husband, and not my child. A wise approach for a wife to take towards her husband. Perhaps one with which some are not familiar. Upbraiding a spouse isn't exactly an endearing or admirable quality in either husband or wife. That is really the only good advice I can give you. And good advice it is, IMO.
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Graplin,
Hear the one about the one armed fisherman????
He caught a fish THHHIIIISSSS big.
Mr. W
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Upbraiding a spouse isn't exactly an endearing or admirable quality in either husband or wife. Nor in board members. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt Exposure 101
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