Hi Orchid,we've never posted to each other but I was reading this thread recovery after infidelity or something along those lines and had a question if you have time to answer.

Could you eloborate (sp) on this...So would you like some assistance in helping you get a plan for you to move forward whether or not he does? This plan can also be used to show him the way to recover but that will only work when HE is ready to shed his WS skin.

The plan you are speaking of is this the O&H, POJA and...darn can't think of the other 2?

My WH is making efforts in our M BUT not exactly what I want nor what I think we need. I find myself stuffing my feelings so not to upset the apple cart because he is trying.

When I saw your post I was wondering if what I mentioned before was the plan you were talking about or another?

Thank you for explaining.

Mvg,

I will certainly give it my best. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I pulled back and was doing some reserach, here's what I found:

Thread from 2001 on how to establish boundaries: FaithWifeCJ's boundaries in M 2001 thread


5 Stages of Grieving Thread from the Divorce site March 2001:

5 stages of grieving - March 2001


HD's Recovery post from Sept 2006:

HurtingDeeply's recovey post from 2006. 6 years!!!


A question about recovery (includes a little background on my sitch)


A question about recovery - back in 2004.


Interesting post on Passive/Agressive behavior in a FWH:


Recovery Board: Passive Agressive Behavior thread - very long but interesting.


Obsessing: why and should we?
Why a BS obsesses? This might explain why recovery can't be achieved.


Failed recovery story and input by other MBers:

Failed recovery and suggestions on what to do.


You know, I used to dig like this before when I posted....years ago. Whew!! That was hard work. Guess these old posts may still be helpful.

Please read them and then let's talk. I found it best when I learned NOT to rely on FWS. I moved forward with the same zeal as when I was in plan A. My improvements were not for the FWS but for me. My H would benefit but I could not make him return, he had to do that on his own.

So I learned to control what was within my control. I had a lot more power than I realized. The WS had no real lasting power over me. With reverse babble, plan B and other tools along with great support, I was able to stand up to the WS attitude and whoop his sorry..... WS attitude. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

POJA and RH (radical honesty) c/b applied only when both the W & H are on the same recovery page. This means they have the same agenda.

When a FWS wants the BS t/d all the recovery work or the FWS wants to sweep it all under the rug and NOT show effort, then recovery doesn't happen, only the PA or EA may stop.... in reality the WS' attitude still exists and that hurts any recovery.

See if he will take the EN questionnaire and read HNHN. Then see if you can do some phone counseling with Steve. Steve is great with the guys....he knows how to draw them out even if they don't want to. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Btw, I keep plan B in my back pocket, even to this day.... know why? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

Hi Orchid,


Why?

Ace

P.S. THANKS for this gold mine of info links. Can't tell you how much I (and many others you're possibly not aware of) appreciate you.

Orchid: Why?..... good question.... because you never know when you might need it. Yea....he's an H again but every so often I would feel uncomfortable. Not safe. When I see traits of the WS on the horizon, I notify H of what I am seeing. Note the word notify. It c/b in a question form or directly pointing it out. His reaction determines whether it is a misunderstanding or not. If it is the later, then plan B comes out. It has happened a few times. He isn't a saint. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Now I have also learned to use the principals from plan B on others who insist on being idiots around me. Like when I worked for this small company where the owner was having a blatant A with his receptionist. He tried to justify the A and threaten me by saying he was NEVER going to fire the OW. I met him directly and agreed. WHAT????!?! This shocked him. While in that state, I then went on to say that as the boss, that was his decision. Later I turned in my resignation. He knew exactly why I was quitting. Not only did I leave but all the other employees who worked the same duration I did left within 3 months after I did. So that man may not have fired the OW but the rest of us didn't have to hang around for the abuse he was handing out. That OW no longer works for him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> He lost lot of clients as a result.

My point is that I use plan B where and when I need to. H knows this and he respects it. On the other hand, when I am in the wrong, he is perfectly within his right to bring it to my attention in a respectful manner.

The door swings both ways once we both shed the BS and WS titles. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

Orchid WOW thank you I didn't expect your links. Quite surprising and appreciated! I will read and post back, ok?!

Again, thank you!

mvg,

How are you doing?

L.

Doing fairly well Orchid. I've been reading the links you posted. THANK YOU. There is much to reflect on in those posts.

I started a talk (emotional) the other night. I didn't realize how much I was stuffing my emotions. They really came pouring out and he was surprised/shocked. He thought we were doing good. He was surprised I was considering leaving.

He admitted he doesn't know 'what to do' to make things better or meet my EN's. I suggested reading HNHN, looking over the ENQ again would give him insight. I feel his reluctance in this. I can't figure out why, and he doesn't answer when I ask why he won't read and find out. I'm really befuddled. He says he loves me, doesn't want me to leave, would beg me to stay, SO WHY won't he read the book or even at least look at my ENQ?! He loves to read so THAT is not part of the problem. I totally don't understand why he subconsciously refuses to meet my most important EN's.

C/b because he really isn't your H.... yet. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Ask him what is he willing t/d to help you feel safe. You realize feeling safe is just the beginning of your healing process. Feeling loved comes later. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.