SMB,

How are you doing? I am so happy for you, and can only hope that my WH will come home one day.

Do you see anything that I could be doing that I am NOT.

Is it ok to ask your FWH questions?

Skins

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

But that is just my point: We are not "playing counselor on the internet."

I am not a "counselor" regarding infidelity, I am not "playing counselor" regarding infidelity. I am a person who has been affected by infidelity. There is a place for counselors and there is a place for a support group. They serve two distinctly different purposes.

While calling the Harleys looking for a pro is good advice, the information and support given here also has value. But due to the very nature of a message board, it is not "counseling" and it is not "playing counseling."

I can completely see the sense in your steps with Jennifer...:


...because you were doing it 'together', and the affair was essentially over (?).

When I started with Steve, it was an active affair and my wife wasn't participating. So we did cover "Lovebusters" and the principle of POJA/negotiation from a 'one-sided' perspective.

Okie, I hope you see that all the 'MB principles' are used regardless of the situation, but it really helps to have one of the Harley's guide you through the process.

Same here. The first question Jennifer asked my FWH was he still engaging in ongoing infidelity.

The honest truth is that you just can't begin to recover a marriage with the OP lurking on the side lines waiting for the certain to come difficult day ... and poof, the affair is back on.

Again, As I mentioned before, if WW is willing to change jobs and stop seeing OM, then there really is no point to expose at work.

So Okie, any chance that she is going to be willing to do that?

Who

WhoMe said:


I'll reiterate that, and suggest to you that one issue with trying to "MB" your spouse is that educating a WS is definitely a lovebuster. As WhoMe indicates, it's better to have a counselor (Jennifer) do the educating and 'brainstorming' around how to end the affair and this work situation. That way this doesn't fall on your shoulders as being just another thing you've done to ruin your wife's 'happiness.'

That's what were discussing now.

If she will agree, I say that is a great option....but, remember, exposure and NC is NOT a POJA issue. If she does not leave that job, you will have to expose. And make sure she knows that she can never return to that store, talk to him, see him...NC is absolute.

We are doing really well...incredibly well. I wish everyone's WS would have the dramatic conversion that mine did.

We both have been avoiding posting on our own threads because of the continuous targeting by #1 troll BA. But if you have questions for tst, I know he would be happy to answer whatever he can. He is hesitant to post to others very often, because he hasn't been here very long. But he would feel blessed to help you if you have any specific questions for him.

Hang in there...when I thought there was no hope, God provided the miracle.

I also did not expose and regret the decision. It enabled their EA to go to PA and made the affair go on longer. He's now quit his job as of almost a year ago and we moved away from Florida a few months ago.

how are you doing today Okie?

Okie,

Talking with your W about changing her location or job is a great thing to do. But, what this site is about and what K is telling you is that recovery requires a plan. Even exposure requires a plan and the best place to get a plan that embodies the MB approach AND is best suited to your particular situation is with the Harley's.

MEDC quoted something that a post named Melodylane posted. But it is part of a post by another poster about plan A: the carrot and the stick. He posted the stick part. Exposure is the stick and it may be necessary to use it.

Personally I think it is an excellent tool to start to decay the affair. But, you need to be prepared, you needed to have planted a few seeds, you need to make sure what the laws are in your state. In short you need intel and targeting information before you strike.

Spend the $200 bucks and get better targeting information. If the affair continues or is continuing exposure is very likely required, but you have implied that the affair may be over, but contact however incidental may be continuing. That must stop as everyone here will agree.

But, the timing and scope of exposure needs to decided, planned for and THEN executed. Apparently her family does know of her affair so exposure has started.

Call the Harley's, this stuff is simple but it is not easy.

God Bless,

JL

PS: It was alluded to that exposure should not be done as a form of revenge. If you read Harley's books you will find that exposure is done with the purpose of seeking help from the person or persons you are exposing to with restoring your marriage. While the WS won't see it as this at first, it is your attempt to reach out and obtain help in saving your marriage. Hence simply telling someone to "expose" the affair is not the complete story. Again it is part of the plan of ending the affair, AND laying the ground work to rebuild the marriage. This stuff is not easy, get an experts help if you can.

I will disagree with JL here. EVERY SINGLE DAY that you hold back on exposure is another day that you risk your wife sleeping with him again, getting an std, getting pregnant...deciding that she wants to be with him and not you. Every one of these concerns is real...and not even slightly exaggerated.

You are in a crisis situation. I think it is fine to research stuff this morning and act this afternoon....but exposure is NOT to gain a tactical advantage...it is to meant to deliver the most powerful blow to the affair BEFORE any more damage occurs.

Both JL and K are offering you solid advice. You can decide for yourself what course of action to take from the plans presented here. For some giving advice, the pain of an affair is and abstract concept since they have never lived through this battle. For others, I would suggest that the handling of their own situations, including "recovery", would suggest that they skipped a few steps along the way. I would rather be divorced than live with what some people call recovery.

But again, both offer you solid advice. But Okie..are you really prepared to sit back and wait while your wife sleeps with him yet again??? That is a call only you can make.

And is there ONE person on this thread...heck on this site for that matter that you can find that regrets a swift exposure?

Just food for thought.


eta...if your wife will leave there and not go back, that is an option too. But delay could could cost you, so be careful.

I don't see how the affair may be over. On 12/26 Okie said that his ww has moved back in but there is no intimacy. He also said that she fully acknowledged that she was still in love with OM. He said she wanted the marriage to work. Since they work together, they still see each other.

Okie, I hope that the conversation with your wayward wife about leaving that job went well. I hope she is getting a transfer or is finding another job. I've seen situations on this board where people involved in work affairs have come clean with their boss and have asked to be removed from the affair situation by getting a transfer.

Since on 12/26 you said that she said she still loves him, I would not consider the "affair" to be "over." At the very least, there is still a strong emotional affair going on.

Lake,

Indeed. Much of the advice that I've given takes into account the fact that the WW just moved back with the kids---and I'd like to see okie work on establishing some Plan A behavior before he puts this back at risk.

With regards to where his wife is right now---my though would be that she's either still in withdrawal from the affair or still continuing it. I'm hoping that okie has gotten through to the MB counseling line and is starting to work with Steve or Jenn.

I wanted to give you all an update. First off I appreciate everyones input. It truely does help know that your not alone in the world in this.

My wife quit her job. I may need to get a second job for awhile, but I'll do it. Once she made the decision to stay with me all of the sudden she could see clearly. She could see how she was manipulated but this guy. Funny thing was he was trying to tell her I was manipulating her into staying. So much for being the HUSBAND. You know, you feel stupid enough trying to convince the WS to come back without the OM trying claim crap like that. Four kids lifes were at stake, not to mention a marriage that could be repair and renewed.

I also finished reading HNHN. Great book. I promise you one thing, that will be a gift I give to anyone getting married. Another book I found time to read was "Just Like Jesus" by Max Lucado. I know it's still going to take time to recover, but marriage is hard work anyway. One thing I've learned is how rampant this is in our society. It was almost like 80% of her store was sleeping around. Then nobody would condem it. It was like a whole complete support group for infidelity. Where the BH or BW were the OM or OW. I'm just shocked.

We are going to get more counselling. Nice thing is that my work pays for it. Her family started to finally figure out what was going on. They all came and gave me support like you wouldn't believe. She finally confessed to them about it. They were furious with her. It will take time for her to get they're trust back too. But she took it and showed true contrition. Her mom and dad have been calling her making sure she is where she needs to be. I know they will drive her crazy for awhile, but like I told her, your going to have to put up with it for awhile.

I tell you another thing that I know this does to people. I know I'm not a goodlooking man. But I've never worried about that before. Although I know that that has little to do with having an affair, it still brings those things to mind. Especially because my wife is a very beautiful woman. Yeah one of those marriages, you know "how in the world did he get her" marriages. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Guess the next step is seeing how she does staying home for now.

Hi Okie,

Good deal with your wife---she sounds like she's defogging in near-record time. HNHN's is great---it does a very nice job of illustrating the 'care' part of the Four Promises. Don't forget Protection (Lovebusters), Time, and Honesty...

Go with the counseling, but be very clear what you want out of the MC---there's a link on this site about what questions you should be asking. Many marriage counselors just aren't very good.

I hope she can stick to the no contact....

Great news, okieflyer! Will she send a no contact letter to the OM and agree to a plan of recovery? I will post a link that outlines what recovery should look like, along with a sample no contact letter from Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley. That book will be KEY to your recovery, so I would get it ASAP.

How to Survive Infidelity: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5525_qa.html

Secondly, unless one of your W's top needs is physical attractiveness, I would not worry too much about looks as long as you are doing your best with what you have. My last H was a physically gorgeous man but I couldn't stand for him to even touch me BECAUSE I DIDN'T RESPECT HIM. I would only have sex with him when I absolutely HAD TO because he was so repulsive to me. I didn't respect him because he was a CLINGY WIMP. ugh! He allowed me to run over him, and women do not respect men they can run over. Most women do not love men they don't respect. It is DISGUSTING.

Fast forward to my current H. Others might say he is not that physically attractive, he is overweight and balding, but to me he is exciting and ATTRACTIVE! The difference is that he is not a WIMP. I respect him tremendously in every way. Not only do I adore him but I have strong sexual feelings for him.

The message here is that your looks are probably not the most important thing if your wife fell in love with you once because that is not what drives most women. Many are driven by the respect we feel for our H's and how they make us FEEL.

Sample no contact letter - ASK HER TO SEND THIS AS A GOOD WILL GESTURE TO YOU:

[from SAA, pg 58]

OW, I want you to know that out of respect and love for my wife and children, I have come to realize that I must never see or talk to you again. My relationship with you was a cruel indulgence that BS did not deserve. While I cannot completely repay BS for the pain I caused her, I will do my best to become the husband she has been missing. I care a great deal for my family and I would not want to do anything to risk their happiness. I will not make any further contact with you and I do not want you to make any contact with me. Please respect my desire to end our relationship.

Sincerely, XXXXX

I agree with you 100% K. God has blessed me with enough wisedom to see BS and run. I think that's why it's good to read those books first. If I hear any psychobabble, I'm outta there. I also appreciate the heads up on the questions to ask.

p.s. to K's point, most MC's are useless. They have a 16% success rate, which is the lowest satisfaction level of any specialty. Most cause MORE HARM THAN GOOD, and we see the fallout on this forum quite often. Most are not pro-marriage, and have no idea at all how to recover a marriage from infidelity. Knowing what I know, I would stay home and listen to MB radio and save the gas money.