I haven't been here in about a year, since MelodyLand helped me get H to an AA meeting. He went to one, those people were not him so he didn't need to go back, and a year later just as I was warned here I am again.

H did agree to give up alcohol. I think that lasted a week. I supported him, then I trusted "just one" and believed "only three" and July was our first BIG blow-out. He admitted in July that no, he won't give up drinking.

It's a progression...and it ain't pretty. I've just gone thru the worst Christmas ever and tonight, he wants to talk. Sits down to say how this isn't going to work, I'm not going to change, he's not going to change, and the best solution is to move out.

Tonight was also my first Al-Anon meeting...though as luck or just my life would have it, it was canceled!

I am torn between numb and completely falling apart. Why am I crying? Why do I still want to hold on to this (days away from being 9y/o) marriage? Do I just cut my losses & move on, let him leave? OH please help me.

Welcome back JulieW. Congratulations on attempting to go to your first Alanon meeting. Going to Alanon will change your life.

Your husband is not ready to quit drinking - he went to one AA meeting and "those people weren't him". He should have added "Yet".

But you can make changes that make it impossible for him to keep going on like he is.

Like what, believer?

I just dug up my old post(s)...you guys warned me, you told me so, I thought I believed/had it under control...now what!?!?

There's another meeting tomorrow (of course) and I have every intention of going. There's 5 actually, and I'm giving some serious thought to taking a vacation day & attending all! But that's "too little too late" now, isn't it?

For me, currently wallowing in self-pity, it seems like all is lost. HE has made up his mind: he is leaving me/us. So, short of jumping on him & saying "I'll do whatever it takes" (which is crap), what can I do??

All is not lost. Go to Alanon. They can help you. If you HATE the first meeting, go to another one. They will teach you how to be happy no matter what his choices. And once you are on the Alanon program, it is very probable that HE will have to change too.

Don't give up a day before the miracle.

Well I'm not giving up, but...how does he get to leave ME?!?!? Why?

11 years of putting up with, standing by, supporting, helping him gone? Because of ANOTHER drunken fit?

I was strong till that meeting really didn't happen. Knowing he wanted to talk to me. Trying to prepare myself for what ended up being what I thought - he's leaving.

Said he goes above & beyond, but I still won't change. He earns his weekends, he likes to drink, smoke pot, he earns it - puts in the extra work & gets his priveleges.

I honestly don't understand why I can't see myself as being better off without him. It's like I'll never be happy! If I'm not explaining to him that HE broke that newly-broken-lamp last night, then I'm explaining to him why he should stick by me & give me a chance to prove my love. How damaging does this have to get?

Think I should take the day off & go to 74 meetings? I really need direction.

Julie,

I'm sorry to see you back for these reasons....but it sounds like you actually have the beginnings of a better plan than last time. Go to Alanon.....they are the experts on living with an alcoholic. As you probably know....MB doesn't work well with addictions. Why not? Well because it's impossible for an addict to follow the "Policy of Joint Agreement" because they can't keep agreements that deal with their addictions. He can't be honest and open....because then he can't hide his addiction. His taker is always in control because he can't give up his addiction. During the times where his judgement is not hampered by his addiction.....he can probably be a good husband.....but things fall apart when he falls off the wagon.

Consequently, you may eventually end up in Plan B.....where you have to end contact with your husband until he can demonstrate that he is willing and able to get help and end his addiction.....before you are able to make much progress. And sadly, until he hits bottom.....he may not be willing to do the hard work.

While you plan for the possibility (and you should plan....financially and emotionally so that you are prepared), you can go to treatment yourself (alanon), set a good example, encourage him to participate....and control your own lovebusters so that he remembers the best of who you are if you need to end contact to protect the love you have left for him.

All is not lost....everyday brings change. Control your own changes....because that's all you really can control. Remember.....the world shapes itself around your thoughts.

(((((((((((((((julie)))))))))))))))))

star*fish, thank you for piping in.

You think I sound better off than last time? Funny, I'm reading thru last time right now and I feel like an idiot. I was told I'd be here, and here I am.

Did you catch the part where I said HE told ME tonight our marriage is over? Drinking didn't even come up. We haven't spoken for 6 days, because of the incident 6 days ago when he was drunk, but tonight I said nothing - just listened to him explain to me how our marriage will never work.

He said, "do you have anything you want to say?" I said no.

He said, "if you want to ask me any questions or say anything, let me know" and that was it.

So do I go to him with the alcohol angle? Cuz he admits it's there...and has said again and again that it's not going away. So, beer wins.

Yes, we "caught it." Now let me ask YOU a question. "So what?"

Before you feel "attacked" by that question, think about this: His words are an attempt to control you, to get you to "roll over" and LET him continue on his path of self-destruction.

Alanon is you first step in saying to yourself, "I will not let you self-destruct without trying to do what *I* can.

Julie, you can no more "make" him stop drinking than any of us "Betrayed Spouses" could "make" our spouses stop having an affair. The individual has to "stop" themself, and that usually (almost always) does NOT happen until a "crisis" is precipitated. Who gets hurt the "most" during such a crisis? The faithful spouse, that's who. So you have two basic choices that you have to make right now, neither of which is "pain free."

1. Divorce him and leave him to protect yourself and your family. Alcoholism WILL leave destruction in it's wake unless the alcoholic makes the commitments and changes (like NO alcohol for the rest of their lives) [sort of like NO CONTACT for the rest of their lives for a WS].

2. "Sign up" for the long haul. It will take love that endures and remains focused on the ultimate goal. It will NOT be easy, so don't run away from Alanon OR from this system where you can get some needed support and encouragement. It is NOT "right" that you have to "suffer," but if you choose to FIGHT for your marriage and your husband, accept that NO war is fun and not every "battle" is won. But keep focused on the strategic goal of winning the WAR.

If your husband will not try (and many will not until they "hit bottom", Hence the need for a "crisis" that REQUIRES him to make a choice), then you WILL have to protect yourself from his drinking and consider option 1.

It "seems impossible" at first. There ARE Withdrawal symptoms. But talk with those who HAVE chosen to try and have "gotten through it" and you'll find not only HOPE but but the REALITY that life IS better when the addictions are "kicked."

God bless.

Julie,

So he's going to leave and then what? So much for plans, usually when someone plans to leave, you know more than just they are leaving right?

Ok, he is babbling and wants you to give up your comfort zone so you can enable his drinking, drugs....whatever....

Do NOT enable him.

He wants to go, let him.

You need to get a recovery plan for you.

Let us know when you are ready.

take care,
L.

Orchid, I am ready NOW - I know I said that a year ago, but it's different NOW. Why? I don't know...I guess I realized I DID marry my dad, my kids keep getting hurt, the loser friends encouraged him to go back to drinking, he says he earned his weekends (my worry, re-directing him to the actual bathroom in a blackout, always repairing either the things he broke or the heartbreak from what he said or the humiliation at his realization of either or both)

I took a vacation day today so that I can go to the daytime meeting. And all the other scheduled today, if that's not insane.

Guess what? He's home from work too - yay

So what do I do? Force him to leave right now?

Tonight is band practice (he's managed to get himself a "hobby" - a band, which he really enjoys & I really like the idea of. Guess what it means: MORE DRINKING) and drinking is sure to ensue, maybe at a heightened level since he just "broke the news" to me. Should I set him up? Have him pulled over?

None of these hotlines are available outside of business hours! I don't know what to do!?

Julie - once you get to Al Anon you'll learn that while he's threatening to leave, it's because he believes you care more about the relationship than he does, so will cave to his behavior.

The thing he doesn't know yet is that he needs the enabler much more than the enabler who is healing needs him. You'll welcome his moving out and on knowing that he needs to fall - all the way - to find out that not only is he "one of those guys at AA after all" - but that he doesn't want to lose everything for the booze.

My IC that I had in my early Anon days asked me if I thought I was more powerful than God - I was astonished at the bold question and said "of course not". She then 2x4'd me and said, "Then get the h*ll out of God's way - He's trying to reach out to your husband with consequences and you keep removing the consequences from your husband - rescuing him. She encouraged me to let my husband find bottom because only then would he reach out for God.

So I'm encouraging you to let your addicted husband move out. There's no way he will recover with you rescuing him from himself.

Julie:

Stop worrying about HIM.

Go to the meeting.

If he LEAVES, then WOW! He actually did something he SAID he was going to do.

And then he will call you and say he left and it was your fault.

Can't you see? You control you. He controls him.

And the alcohol controls him.

So you DO have an advantage.

Go to the meeting.

If you are in the same place as last year, then its time to change that. We are here. The good advice is STILL the same.

All you have to do is implement the advice. It doesn't matter that you didn't do it yet, it just matters that you DO IT.

Today is the FIRST day of the rest of your life.

Today make the CHOICE to change your Marraige dynamics. And going to the Al-anon meeting is the best first step.

LG

UGH

OK, thank you.

I printed out the "Is AA for me?" questionnaire & stuck a post-it on it that said:

"End our marriage? Or kill its attacker?"

I should probably remove it before he sees it, huh? Because it's not like he's going to say, "OH yea, she's right, I'll go to AA & all will be better!"

Right?

Or leave it, so he knows where I'm going with this?

JW:

We have been telling you to help yourself.

And you decide to print out something for your H, and then EXPECT him to have the "AHA" moment.

Why?

Your welcome around here.

But until your alcoholic husband decides to post here, we can't help him.

Please. Just go to the meeting.

For yourself, and YOUR future.

LG

I am in a crazy situation. Been there for a while, in fact. So I am acting crazy.

Feeling desperate. So I'm acting desperate.

But I'm asking for help.

I'll remove the envelope. I'll pretend I'm strong. I won't let him see me cry.

And, crap! I was wrong. First meeting today is at 6. So now I've taken a vacation day, and I'm stuck here WITH H.

Hi Julie,

Have you read the Q&A letters concerning alcoholism? The first one is here.

You'll notice that Harley will not recommend the normal MB work until after your spouse has completed a treatment program. Because they're like a giant sponge, and they won't do anything but suck the life out of you. AlAnon will help you with this---teach you how to become withdrawn from your spouse.

If you decide not to live like that, the only other real option is a Plan B where you tell your husband that you'll be happy to work on the marriage, once he's completed a sobriety program and is sticking with it. That's not going to be a popular idea, but it's very difficult to deal with an addict in a marriage, because the relationship is never a 2-way street.

Thanks, K. I read it. Makes sense - when I see it written - about somebody else. My H likes to self-medicate. He's earned it. He does great things around the house - things I ask him to & things I don't even ask him to. He deserves to "have a couple". And on his lunch break, it's OK if he wants to smoke a bowl - he is, after all, going back to WORK.

Yea I know all that sounds stupid, and I know there's a teeny-tiny, eensie-weensie smidgen of a chance he'll agree someday...but this is a man who's been drinking/smoking since he's 14. His mama didn't tell him no, the police couldn't hold him down, his buddies think it's WAY cool...and then there's this b*tchy wife & pestering kids. We're really cramping his style! Been cramping his style for 11 yrs now!

Anyway, I feel like I'm up against a brick wall here. All these years gone by & NOW I want him to change? When all his friends are still living the Hi Life!? Doubtful.

Should I tell him to leave, now? He said he plans to move out but has to stay here for now...he has no money & can't stay with anybody.

SO - let him stay in the house & either Plan A or push the AA while attending AlAnon? Or make him leave, because that's what he says he wants, and figure it out on his own, while I attend AlAnon & bring up his addiction in every conversation we have?

I've got till 6pm till I can go to a meeting. Appreciate any & all bones you can throw me meanwhile.

I don't remember how old your children are - how many. Is there a way they can go to friends homes and you go to the bookstore - find a nice cushy chair and just read an assortment for a day?

If you really want motivation to stick to Al Anon, read up on children of alcoholics - I grew up with an alcoholic father - his MO was isolated self-medicating. Your husband's MO is more social - with the band. But your children are developing their own coping mechanisms that will be unhealthy for them as adults.

I was the "lost child" in my family dynamics - my older brother and younger sister - scapegoats; my oldest brother - the hero child - my youngest brother eventually became the scapegoat too as the older siblings moved out.

I'm headed to work now, so won't be able to respond more until tonight - but I have been heavily involved in development of intervention programs for children growing up in alcoholic homes; and I've been through an anon program as a spouse of an addict (not alcohol, but just as soul destroying)

Kids: 11y/o DD, 8y/o DS

H & I haven't spoken since our angry/his drunken fight last Thursday. Got thru Christmas by focusing on them, interacting w/them in shifts. We're living together, but I have not looked at him since last Thursday.

DD said to him Sunday, after he got back from watching the game w/the boys, "were you drinking, Mr.?" He just laughed. She said, "I told you no drinking before noon!" (She was being funny, or whatever) He said, "I listen to nobody!" He said that to our 11y/o daughter! And this is our life...