Hello everyone!

I joined MB about 9months ago and posted for awhile. I decided to take a break because I was so consumed and stressed out about my marriage and what was going to happen to it that I was seriously making myself crazy. Ive just been working really hard at my marriage and letting things play out. Things have gotten better, not as good as I would like them to be but Ive learned I do not have that button on my control board.

We are 1 year and 8 months past d-day without any unnecessary set backs. We have both made amazing strides but seem to be at a plateau. H says he isnt sure about our marriage still, doesnt know if he will ever be able to get past my A. If he has a bad day or has a difficult trigger he withdraws from me. He very often seems like he doesnt want to be in our marriage. He has stated many times that he is basically here because of our children. Is this still "normal"? Will he ever allow himself to feel secure in our marriage or is it still too soon for that?

I am struggling with all of this emotionally. I feel so vulnerable to another A. Im very aware of how I feel and know that I wont but its feeling all that yuckness that I felt when I started the having the A. I just want them to go away,...I think Im jonesing! I feel so alone! How do I deal with these feelings? Is it seriously like a drug addiction, will I always feel the urge to seek a "fix"? God I hope not! Yuck!

Please any insight would be greatly appreciated!

TG,


There's no way to know what a "normal" time period for forgiveness and trust should be. Each individual is different. Even when you can forgive....the triggers are still hard for a good long while. It's not too soon....but it's not too late either.

Many people survive the affair....but fail to recover the marriage. I'm sorry that you left MB when you did....because early recovery is one of the times you need it the most. Have you thought about going to an MB weekend? Or to Retrouvaille? There is a wide range of programs that can be done on weekends....and I've seen folks get really good results with jump starting their recovery. Have you had in MC at all?


What kind of connections do you have in your life that are both fulfilling and safe? Do you have family or friends who can help with the lonliness until you have time to rebuild the compatibility in your marriage? Are you safeguarding your marriage? How?


An affair triggers the same reward system in the brain that drugs like cocaine do....so yes...they really do act like addictions. Generally, once you get through withdrawal....the addictive features fade.....however....some people are not just addicted to their affair partners...they are addicted to how feeling "in love" feels. If you feel neglected by your husband....you probably are missing that feeling. Have you told him?

Is there a chance you are depressed, and might want to see a doctor?

Anyway....sorry for so many questions....but keep filling in the details.

Hi TG....

First, glad you decided to post to seek help for your marriage. A great step.

Second, fair warning, I feel like your H.

Third, can't say I blame your H for feeling the way he does and I don't even know your story, other than you had an affair. But this is why.....




And....it's every BS's worst nightmare.

Have you been to an individual counselor to find out why you had your affair in the first place?

What have you been doing to make your H feel secure in your marriage?

What have you done to help your H recover from your A?



Unforntunately, even though working the MB program can make marriages better than before the affair, once you've had an affair, the specialness and exclusiveness is gone for your H. Speaking on behalf of myself and I believe other BSs as well, your affair killed any chance of COMPLETE and TOTAL happiness for your H. There will always be a sadness about it he will feel. Your marriage may not ever get to where you want it to be. You ended that chance when you decided to have an affair. Some may disagree but that's the way I feel and I've read other BSs say it as well.



At least he is speaking his truth. Have you asked him why he feels this way? Sometimes I feel the same way. I don't know if I will ever recover WITH my H because I cannot trust him yet. And in our recovery, he always seemed to do too little, too late. He's gotten better I think about some things now but a lot of damage has already been done.

How do you handle the triggers when your H is upset? Has he told you what he needs? If so, have you done what he's asked of you?

So, sorry I don't have any great advice, just questions. I just thought I would respond since I feel the same way your H does.


* edited

Mopey, I'm a BS that agrees with your POV. No matter how great our M becomes post A, it will never achieve the potential that it had pre-A. There are just some things that can never be undone. I'm still trying to recover my M though because I suspect D would be a lot worse.

Trigirls,

I believe I posted to you before. Here is where your H is having problems.
"I hope not"???????

You see how can your H feel secure in your marriage when your method of coping is to think about having an affair? Do you see how you are influencing him? You don't trust yourself, and you expect him to trust you and be comfortable after only 18 months.

You expect his feelings to have changed and him to have healed in this time, yet you have not healed in this time and your feelings have not changed.

Trigirl, have you made a plan to avoid situations where you are tempted to be in an affair? Have you any plan to avoid an affair? Or is your plan like my diet plan "I plan to lose 20 lbs." That is not a plan, it is really not even a goal since it does not have a time line.

Your H is there, he is trying, he is insecure and from your own words he has reason to be. Don't you see how your own responses to things can be undermining the recovery. He may not be able to read your mind, but young lady, he has learned the hard way to be very very attuned to your body language, your emotions, and your actions. '

Your way of coping needs to change and you need to develop a new way of coping. I would strongly recommend talking with the Harleys or a good promarriage counselor.

I hope I have given you something to think about. Your marriage is not lost, and 18 months is not long on the path of recovery.

God Bless,

JL

I don't mean to sound so bleak, but unfortunately it is what it is.

However, I honestly believe that two willing participants can still be happy, extremely happy even, even in marriages affected by infidelity if recovery is handled with extreme care and the MB principles are followed.

Trigirls....speaking for myself, the "recovery from the affair" which is estimated at two years (most BSs say it takes MUCH longer) is CRUCIAL if you want the marriage to survive. You have to get through the recovery first. Your BH is obviously upset and has things that need to be worked through. I think he still wants the marriage if he's still there, regardless of what he says about the kids. Be compassionate, loving and patient with him. It's a process you cannot make shortcuts on. And if you try, he will feel it. Don't push him to "get over it". I don't know if you do, I hope you don't.

We have been in MC since d-day. At first H wouldnt withdraw, he would attack me verbaly and a few times got physical. Eventually I learned that I didnt deserve to be treated this way because I had an A and would tell him I was sorry and walk out of the room. He very quickly stopped that and would just withdraw, and quite often. I would try to love him and talk with him and bring him back but it rarely worked so I stopped doing that as well. I now tell him that I love him and that Im here if he needs to talk, and leave it be. I dont know if its the right thing to do but he withdraws less and comes back much quicker than before. Huge progress I think and he sems to think like wise. He mentioned the other day that he had heard a song at work and did ok with it. I told him that was awesome and that I was so proud of him, and that I could tell how hard hes been trying.

Thinking of having an A is NOT my way of coping!

I have worked very hard at coming out of the fog and being real and honest with myself. I am not proud that I turned my back on my H, my marriage, myself, my family, and my values. I take full responsibilty for the choices I have made and the destriction I have caused.

I have needs in this marriage that arent being met and I would be lying to say that the lack of those needs being met are not important to me and dont effect me. I am human! I understand why it is hard for my H to meet those needs, does it make the hurt any less? NO!

I have done anything and everything asks of me by my H and suggested by our MC.

What is safe gaurding a marriage? Could you explain Star Fish? I have friends and family in place, it helps some. What I want most is my H! I do trust myself, Im very aware of what Im feeling and thinking.

Why do BSs stay in a marriage that has no hope of being what it couldve been? Or for some, even good? H says that it will never be, and that he cant be completely happy with me but cant be happy without me either. Somtimes I think its selfish of me to hang on to our marriage knowing that ****** never be happy with me. I guess I just hope someday.....

Trigirl,

Look very carefully at this last post of yours. I see you REACTING. I see you waiting to be told what to do. I don't see a plan. I don't see you looking your H in the eye and saying "nope it won't be the same and I am glad. What I want is a much better marriage, a stronger marriage, and a marriage where I am free to love you and where I am loved by you." Where is that declaration of what you want?

Perhaps he cannot get over the affair, some people cannot do it. Perhaps. it is time to consider leaving the marriage if NONE of you EN's are being met. Perhaps, it is time for you to quit waiting for people to ask you for something and for you to start doing some asking yourself.

I KNOW it is time you started to plan and in planning one of the topic should be how to avoid situations where you might be tempted to have an affair. That plan should be discussed with your H and then he would need to see action from YOU.

In short isn't it time you initiated the recovery of the marriage and not wait for your H to suggest what you should do. As for "thinking of having an A is NOT my way of coping", please reread your own words quoted in my earlier thread.

Trigirls, it may sound as if I am picking on you...OK perhaps I am <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> , but what I really want you to start to do is plan how you want to recover this marriage, and that starts with goals. What would a good marriage look like to you? What would a great marriage with your H look like to you? Do you know what a great marriage with you would look like to your H? If not ask, and if he says to have what he had, look him in the eye and say "no way buster", I've grown, and I have learned some hard lessons, I am not going back to what I was then."

You don't have to run over him to recover this marriage, you do have to have a goal, and it should be a shared goal. Waiting for "feelings" to change is NOT a good way to recover. Addressing issues, doing things that make you both feel good, sharing life, goals, and supporting one another is how how a good/great marriage is made.

Isn't it time?

Consider it.

God Bless,

JL

Trigirls,



I don't think that your H being in withdrawal is abnormal, necessarily.

A better question to ask would be for him, in the form of what WOULD it take for him to be willing to emotionally invest. What does he see as fas as obstacles that keep him from being willing to invest?

Same question regarding filling your EN's.

Same question regarding his triggers. How do you respond when he is in that state?



This statement concerns me.

An affair is a choice. Regardless of EN's being met or not being met, you chose a destructive method to cope previously and you have the ability to learn methods of coping now that don't have the same hefty consequences attached to them.

What is it that you're jonesing for, really?

There are ways of getting your emotional needs met that aren't destructive. The need for conversation can be met by friends and family, for example.

If the issue is that you don't feel like a complete person without someone of the opposite sex consistently meeting your EN's, why not look at ways of feeling more complete autonomously?

I would much rather see you spending your time working towards bettering the conditions in your marriage than being concerned about getting a "fix".

I'd be very interested to hear your husband's responds to the questions regarding what he sees as his obstacles.

How One Spouse Can Lead the other Back to Intimacy

JL,

Yes you are picking on me and at times its hard to read your posts but I also know that perhaps you have a lot of hurt that you are projecting at me, so I dont take it personally, infact I hope to gain some insight from you!

I feel I have/and have had a plan in place for recovery, but I can only do so much, and with a H that doesnt want to let me in, I honestly dont know what more I can do.

As for my own recovery, thankfully I have control of that! I have been a stay at home home for 12yrs. Ive worked when I needed to help out financially. I have one friend and lots of family(his side). I havent had much in my life outside of own home and so part of my recovery is to fill my life with more, so that I dont look to hubby to "fill me up". Its impossible for him to do that, and I realize that now.

I have established more girl friends that I get together with about 2x a month for a social outlet. I went back to school, and just got a job with NorDx part time.

As far as protecting myself from another affair, I stay intouch with how Im feeling and I simply CHOOSE not to ingage in any conversation with anyone of the opposite sex that could potentially turn personal. I think "feeling" is my biggest protector. When I had my affair, I chose to turn my feeling off and actually used the hurt I was feeling to justify my affair. Now I feel the hurt and I deal with it knowing Im ok, and I can make myself feel better, I dont need someone else to do it.

I am scared to death, changes arent easy to make but I know that things cant stay the way they are, nor do I want them to. I have told H that I feel lonely, and that I dont want things to go back to the way they were, but here we are and not completely but things are very similar to the way they use to be. I have no idea what more I can do, I dont know how I can recover this marriage by myself. I dont want to let go of it.

We had a really nice talk lastnight and he said that he feels too much pressure from me to work on our M. He said that he loves me and wants to spend the rest his life with me, but just wants to concentrate on his business and raising our children right now. Thats exactly what he said he was doing before the affair happen.

He also said that if financially we could do it he thinks a seperation would be best right now. What the #&%*? Over a year and a half past d-day with no set backs and he wants a seperation? OMG!

He said its not me, I have done everything I could do to help get our m back on track. He said its him, he hates who he is now, he hates the father he has become, its all him at this point.

I dont know what to do!

What did you mean when you said that I dont have to run over him to recover this marriage?

Frozen,

I asked him what it would take for him to start investing emotionally in our M, and he dodged the ? like the plague. Finanlly I asked him to just think about it...so with no prompting of his own, the following morning I asked him if he had thought about it. No he hadnt, I wasnt surprised, but I asked him again, and his response was to forget. He would need to forget to invest emotionally in our M. Thats encouraging! I dont believe that, I think that was his answer because he doesnt want to feel anything! He couldnt even think about the ?.

From the talk we had last night and it was a pretty hefty conversation, I know he has shut off his ability to feel, and he has no disire to open up so that he can start to feel, to heal, and work with me to rebuild our M. But he does want to spend the rest of our lives together,...huh? Can anyone explain that to me?

Im so confused!

You said that you feel vulnerable to another A, yet you wonder that your H is withdrawn? He probably suspects and fears that you feel you could betray him again, and that fear causes a person to not be willing to emotionally invest. Its quite possible (perhaps even probable?) that your BH will never feel the same way about you again. I don't think that means you two can't develop a good marriage, but . . and that's about it, there could always be a "but".

It sounds like your H is willing to talk to you, willing to "work on the M", even if it is not progressing as you would like.

Have you filled out the EN's surveys and done the work associated with a MB recovery plan? I know your H says things about the way he feels, but that does not mean those feelings can't change. As someone so recently pointed out to me, feelings FOLLOW actions. You cannot wait for the feeling to produce the desired action, you act, and act consistently, and the feelings will follow.

My BH knows I feel alone and that I feel the same way I did before the A. I will not have another A, I choose not to, as I have learned why I had one and what I need to do to protect myself from another!!!!!!! Maybe my words should have been different!!!!!

He does fear that I may do it again, just as all of you fear that from your spouses.

We have filled the EN surveys out before the A and we have filled them out after the A.

I absolutely believe that feelings can change, but it takes hard work, and he is not willing to do the work in his own recovery. Dont you think that both the BS and the WS need to recover or at least be recovering in order for the M to recover? Im very curious about any thoughts on this.

You were aware of MB, aware of what it takes to have a healthy M, and still chose to have an A? Am I reading that right?

And yes, both spouses are 50% responsible for the state of the M.

I jumpted ahead, sorry if this is not timely or pertinent.

Once you have spent a good amount of time in a relationship, your spouse will pick up on things...even if you SWEAR OTHERWISE.

You feel vulnerable to another A.... HE MUST ALSO SEE THAT.

I have had about 6 mos of peace and tranquility in my M, and after 6 days vacation...My H has returned to the distant, moody, detached and somewhat mean man he was a few months ago..

I can't get in to see my therapist for 4 weeks...

I believe my H experienced "withdrawals" while he was away with me. He can say all he wants and promise and swear on a stack of bibles, but...

He must still be having an A. I have learned so much from this site...I also stepped away to do plan A, and be the best W I could be.

No matter.

If my Husband doesn't want the same things in our marriage as I do...we won't make it.

We will never, ever be the same couple we were before he cheated on me. I was working, praying, hoping, that we would BE BETTER than we were.

The advice on here is right on, solid, and I have to digress...

I don't think I can ever trust him again. More importantly, I don't think I WANT TO.

There are no guarantees....we are human, we make mistakes, and some can't be overcome.

Be patient with him, and for those of you that may be reading this, and other posts, THINK BEFORE YOU BREAK THE HEART OF THE ONE WHO LOVES YOU.

That could very well be because HE is confused. He's hurt, understandably. An affair is about as big a lovebuster as they come.

It's basic concept stuff. I suspect his love bank balance is in the red and he no longer feels like doing much to meet your needs.

I don't know about you, but it has been my experience that when my love bank balance is above the romantic love threshhold, I find it difficult to imagine that I will ever feel anything but love for my H. Yet, when my balance falls deep in the red, I can't seem to imagine ever feeling "in love" that way again. But it happens, because it is the nature of emotions...they fluctuate and are ever-changing.

Did you read the article discussing how one spouse can lead the other out of withdrawal and back to intimacy?

There is still something about your statement about feeling vulnerable to another A that bothers me. That you would see that as an option for getting your needs met comes across as a veiled threat and hints at a still-present sense of entitlement.

If it sets of my alarm bells, I can only imagine that it contributes to your H's feeling unsafe. And for as long as he feels unsafe, it will be impossible for him to re-connect.

First of all let me clarify,...when I said that I feel vulnerable to another A, I meant I have the feelings of loneliness, not being supported, etc. that were present when I had the A. I havent shut off my feelings and I feel that is what protects me most from having another A. I guess those feelings are associated to an A because that is what I chose to do before. Please know that I will never choose to be unfaithful again!

I can say with full confidence that Im meeting my Hs emotional needs.

I am a having a really hard time understanding,...there are BSs out there that have WSs that are still in the fog, on the fence, cant decide, whatever you want to call it, and yet they are the ones busting a$$ to get their marriage back on track. Then you have WSs who are willing to do the hard work to come out of the fog, get off the fence, fullfill needs, etc. and their BSs are the ones that stay withdrawn and refuse to do the work on their part to help rebuild the marriage. WHAT GIVES? Im sure its not that way with everyone but the majority of the cases Ive seen and read about, thats the way it seems, and mostly with the men that are the BS. Women seem to be able to move forward if they are getting ENs met and see that work is willing to be done.

I dont think I have read the article, I will go try to find it.

Things have been really good since our talk the other day,...maybe I just need to accept that he will never commit to rebuilding our marriage, continue to do the work I can for our M and hang on until I cant any longer.

If your protection depends on your needs being met by another person, it isn't very solid because that would indicate that it is outside of your control.


This is textbook fog, IMO.

Some other ways I've seen it stated are, "I see other BS's Plan A'ing and meeting needs to get their WS back. Why can't mine?"

It equates to a selfish demand and a strong sense of entitlement.

I think the basis to understanding would be to realize that people respond to pain in very different ways.

Some BSs also respond with immediately filing for divorce upon discovery of an affair. After some time attempting recovery, some BSs find that they cannot, for whatever reason, fully recover from the betrayal and those marriages also can end in divorce or in an ongoing, but broken marriage.

I think that men (in general) often tend to not have the level of support systems that women do and I have read that men are less likely to confide in others and are more isolated in regards to infidelity.

If you allow your thoughts to dwell in the "but these other people have it better" your net result will be resentment and entitlement.

Those are two things that are not very conducive to recovery.

Ummm no you misunderstood,...what I meant was that not shutting my feelings off to the hurt that I am feeling because we are struggling, staying open to what Im feeling and thinking are what protect me most, among other things if you have read my other posts.


My H didnt have to plan A. A selfish demand? No way A strong sense of entitlement? Are you kidding me?

Yes, I would like some acknowledgement for the hard work I have done, wouldnt anyone, but I understand that it has to come in Hs own time. Im just frustrated that I have done what Dr. Harley advises should happen to order for a couple to recover from an A, and my H continues to struggle. I will continue to try to deposit in his love bank until he allows the transactions to go through. I will try to keep my taker in check. I will continue to hang in there and work hard.