Oh... as far as the ring. Let that one go for now. He will come around. My FWH "lost" his ring during his affair. Guess what I bought him for his birthday about five months into recovery?

Thanks princess. When I mentioned him hating questions, I meant questions like "Who was that on the phone?" and "Can I look at your phone?" and "Can I have your password to..."

We have talked quite a bit about the A and what happened. I feel like most of my questions about that have been answered.

I am interested in reading your story later...when the kiddos are not climbing on me...thanks for your response.

He says the affair is over and i am pretty certain it is. He has told me that he doesn't have the strenght to work on our marraige and isn't sure if and how long he is going to stay he just can't commit to it right now.

He just told me today that he is afraid to leave cause he doesn't know what is going to happen and he is afraid to stay cause he feels he is missing out on something. That really hurt me and he had the gall to do it while i was at work. Oh well my story is on here it is currently titled Hurt so much inside.

He met the kids and I for lunch today. He wasn't talkative (but he's not a big talker) but he wasn't unpleasant...replied briefly to things I said. Smiled at the kids. When he left to go back to work he gave me a quick hug and kiss. That's something.

We have another MC appointment tomorrow. Last time didn't go well, we argued the whole time and it was frustrating to us all. Hopefully this time will be more productive. I am happy that he agreed to go because I wasn't sure that he would.

Last night he left his phone out on the dresser for a couple of hours. I swear that's the longest he's gone without having it ON HIM since he's been home from his military training! It tells me that he isn't hiding anything and that he isn't expecting a call/text from her. Obviously, that's why he always had it on him before.

The baby steps are frustrating for me because I want him to be completely committed, but I know these small steps are positive. That he's showing me small amounts of affection is very helpful to me because I feel so rejected when he won't touch me (except for SF, his top EN). I know he's just doing the hugs/kisses for me because he still says he doesn't like the "touchy feely stuff" and he really just wants to be alone.

So is there a pattern to how they usually de-fog? In layers, gradually getting back to normal? Or all at once in a revelation of what they've done? I've been waiting for this big change to happen, but now I'm thinking that might not be realistic. Maybe it will happen slowly over time. Just wondering how it happened for others.

Deep breath there webjogger cause i took the last two months partly for granted. He gave me those baby steps and i feel i screwed it up by getting impatient.

The de-fogging i think is a process and i think you just need to give it time.

I am cheering on the sidelines for you keep you head held high.

Counseling tonight went ok. It was more productive than before, but we still just talked about how things are going. She did give us a few pages of a workbook that we could go over ourselves. She encouraged WH to be more transparent with me to re-establish trust. However, she seems to think that I should leave WH alone more. She told me to look up "pursuer-distancer" and since I"m not stupid, I can pretty much understand what that means without looking it up. She seems to be under the delusion that if I leave him alone, he will come after me. He won't. He wants to be alone. So where does that leave me? In a "do your own thing" kind of marriage! Before he ever went in the military, we did our own things. That's how we grew apart in the first place. I would try to spend time with him, he would keep watching tv, and I would give up and go read or go to bed. So how is that going to be different if I leave him alone now? I cried all the way home. He asked me why, but when I explained, he had nothing to say. I asked him why he asked if he didn't want to talk about it. He said "you were crying so I wanted to know why." It just makes it worse when I tell him and he doesn't say anything. So....it was going ok while we were there but now I am frustrated and angry and hurt all at once. I feel like I'm out of luck no matter what I do. I'm not supposed to "pursue" him (who'd have thought you'd have to pursue your husband?) but he won't initiate anything either. The therapist was asking us tonight about having fun...she asked if he would like to do fun things with me and he said yes. If neither of us initiates that, are we magically going to find ourselves having fun? I think not. Did I mention that I'm frustrated? Ugh.

Mostly venting here...thanks...

The Harley's suggest spending 15 hours a week doing fun things together, without the kids. Can you manage that?

believer: I would love to do that - but he just isn't ready, I guess. When he comes home from work, he plays computer games until the kids go to bed. Then when I put them to bed (by myself, he used to help) he goes to the gym. I think he does that to avoid spending time with me. So it's like 9 pm when he comes back and he just watches tv or gets back on the computer. I have asked him to do stuff like play cards or something, but now that I am learning about this "pursuer-distancer" thing, I don't know if I'm supposed to initiate things or if I'm supposed to wait for him. I usually kind of hang out in the living room with him, even though we're not talking or anything. I figure I can be there in case he wants to do something. Another problem is that we just moved here and I don't have any friends yet, so I don't have a lot of options as far as having my own fun. I am not the kind of person who likes to sit back and let life happen to her! So this "not pursuing" thing is driving me crazy already.

And the lack of affection...how do the rest of you handle that? We have s*x regularly but he doesn't want to kiss or hug or cuddle, etc. Last night after s*x I tried to pull him close to me for just a moment and he resisted. It made me cry, I couldn't help it. I'm trying not to be demanding but living without affection is sooo hard.

WJ,
your story reminds me a lot of my own. WW just doesn't seem ready to commit much effort to the Marriage right now.
We are at 2 weeks of NC (this time), and I am learning that the hardest part of this stage is having NO expectations of the wayward. There is nothing right or fair about it, but it must be accepted for what it is. Hopefully with time your WH will gradually come to his senses and voluntarily be more open and participate more in the recovery of your marriage.
I hope he does.
There is a great post I just read regarding setting boundaries without love busting. It may be very helpful for you as you struggle to make sense of your feelings and his actions.
Here it is: I don't know how to post a link like others do, but you can cut and paste this to find it

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0#Post3377535

Hope this works, and helps. Let me know.
You are not alone. There are many here who can help if you've got the strength to make it work.

I'm really, really trying not to "pursue" him anymore. Read more about that dynamic (pursuer-distancer) and I think we have had a problem with that for our whole marriage. The affair just magnified it and really brought it to our attention. So I left him alone Fri, Sat, and Sun. Sunday night he initiated relationship talk! So we had a brief, positive discussion about our future...nothing about the affair or OW. I was encouraged that he initiated it. He said that we are basically starting over, only it's harder this time. True, and I was happy because that comment seemed to imply a future together. First time he's said something like that.

BUT this slow pace is driving me CRAZY. Yesterday I felt good but today I am frustrated again. I am a fixer, action-oriented person. Standing still and waiting for things to happen at HIS pace is sooooo hard! Plus still no affection and that makes it tough too.

I'm going back to MC on Thursday night. I hope he will come too but I have to work up to asking him. I think our therapist is on to something with the pursuer-distancer thing and working on that could help us understand each other a lot more.

I just hate the insecurity, the waiting, the giving without receiving. Had to vent.

What happened to bella?

lovinghim - Oh I see you changed your name.

Last night was a hard night. The constant rejection just gets to me. I went out and did something for me (tried a community choir rehearsal) and when I came home he barely looked up from his computer game and did not ask me anything about my evening. I know I'm not supposed to expect stuff from him, but I guess I do. I finally asked him if we could talk for a few minutes because I needed to find out if he's willing to go to MC tomorrow...I'm going regardless, but if he's going I needed to get a sitter. So he said he doesn't "feel like it" and that I can just tell him what the therapist says. Right, like that's helpful.

Then I just got so sad. I went in the other room and cried for awhile, talked to my sister on the phone for awhile. When I came back in the living room, he was just sitting there in the dark. He asked me what was wrong, in that tone of voice that says "what could she possibly be upset about?" So I stood there and tried to explain. I told him that I just felt sad, sometimes it all gets to me. I try so hard to do what I'm supposed to do and I can keep myself positive most of the time but then every few days or so, it just hits me. I told him how hard it is to live with all the rejection. He was like, "rejection? what do you mean, rejection?" Sometimes it is so hard to answer these questions when the answer is so obvious to me!! I said, "Well, you don't want to be around me, touch me or talk to me. That's rejection, constantly." I told him that I can't understand how I can be so upset and he refuses to comfort me. He said "what do you want me to say? You said say something positive, what were you looking for?" I said, "Could you maybe say something like, 'I know it's hard right now but we are going to work on it and things are going to get better.'" His response? "I thought I've already told you that." As though I would only need to hear that once. I told him that may be, but when I feel sad like this, that's the sort of thing that I need to make me feel better. Something positive that I can hold on to and keep me going until I can keep myself positive again. I may have said one or two other things about how I was feeling, but that was about it and he said he was going to bed. When we got in bed, he immediately reached out for me and held me! Then we talked lightly, silly stuff. That was good. Then this morning, when his alarm went off, I sort of moved closer to him. After a few minutes, he put his arm around me and sort of hugged/patted me. So, see, he is trying. But I just wish I had more of that. Maybe I just have to be patient. I know I do.

I asked him this morning how he was feeling about wearing his wedding ring. He said the same as before. I asked him what would have to happen for him to feel like he could wear it again. He said he didn't know. I said I thought he had decided to stay, was that not true? He said "I haven't decided to leave, if that's what you're asking." No, I was asking if he decided to stay. He wanted to know why I was asking. I said "You said we were starting over so I thought you'd decided to stay - so I was wondering how you feel about wearing your ring." He walked into the bathroom. I said, "I"m sorry but I need to know...are you still thinking about leaving?" and he said "I don't think about leaving and I don't think about staying."

What the heck is that???????????????????????????? Just sticking around where there's a clean house with food being cooked and someone to sleep with, getting to see the kids?

I'm so frustrated. This ambivalence is killing me.

I have been trying - again - to let him guide our recovery. I think we do want the same thing: to be close again. We just have different ways of going about it. So I'm trying to quit making him do things MY way. We're very different. I told him that I was giving him the reins in our relationship and apologized for being disrespectful by assuming that my way of doing things is better than his way. He said he didn't know what to say yet. Probably he wants to know if I will really follow thru. I'm trying.

He told me the other day that all he can think about is having s*x with me. He said when I ask for affection, or like sitting on the couch together, he doesn't want to be sitting there anymore! I said that's not a bad thing. After all, he was gone (military training) for 3 months. Anyway, so there's a lot of SF going on - his top need. Practically his only need! But the problem is that he doesn't want to kiss me. He said it doesn't feel right after everything that's happened. It makes it feel much less intimate to me, like maybe he should be leaving some money on my nightstand. :-( I guess I keep hoping this will get better as we get closer. But it is really difficult for me.

Today's his birthday. The kids are going to lunch with my sister and he is coming home for "lunch." Hopefully everything will go well.

I guess it went ok. He didn't say much. Wouldn't it be nice to hear something like "wow, you're such a great wife for making these plans for me, this is awesome"? But I think he WAS glad. Would it kill him to say it?

How do you keep going, meeting your spouse's needs, when they are not meeting yours? What keeps you going? I feel lonely so often. We can have s*x almost every day. Why can't we snuggle? Or play a board game? Or laugh? Why can't he tell me simple things about his day? Why can't he txt me back when I send him a fun, flirty txt? How can I enjoy SF when it is sometimes the only way we connect? I would enjoy it more if we had emotional connections earlier in the day (aren't most women that way?). Ahhhhhhhh. I guess things are progressing ok. It's just so slow and I feel so impatient.

I've been worried today that OW will contact him to say Happy Birthday. As far as I know, there's been NC for almost a month, but with it being his bday...I just keep wondering if she will try to contact him. I asked him at dinner if he had heard from anyone with birthday wishes. He said "what do you mean?" Um, what was confusing about that question? I said "has anyone wished you happy birthday today? friends, family?" He didn't answer but I kept looking at him, waiting for his response. He finally looked at me and said "what?" like he didn't know what I was waiting for. I said "I was waiting for you to answer my question" and he said "no one knows it's my birthday."

Ok, first of all, I'm sure she knows. Women are like that. Secondly, he didn't seem to want to answer a simple question with a direct answer. Thirdly, while he was involved with her, there were times that I asked him something directly and he lied...I found out later he had lied and he would say "well we weren't in a good place then for me to tell you about that." Like he was helping me out by lying. Right.

So now I'm having a bit of a freak out, wondering if she txt him or what, if he's lying or not. If I bring it up and ask again, he's gonna get mad and ask why I can't leave it alone. If I don't ask, I'm gonna sit here and wonder and worry.

I tried to give him a good birthday. Arranging things so we could have s*x on his lunch hour, buying him a nice but not mushy card, making him steak for dinner and his favorite dessert (white chocolate raspberry swirl cheesecake!). He has not said thanks for anything (oh he said thanks when he opened the card and then tossed it down). I'm trying so hard to do the right things. I just wish I could get a little something in return...

How was he as a husband BEFORE the affair?

He may be in withdrawal, which is not pleasant, and should not last long. But his refusal to put in any effort, go to counseling, is a BIG RED FLAG.

If he was a good husband before, I would give it a little more time. But the guy is not impressing me.

And come on over to the "Goddess" thread, where we women try to support and uplift each other. Sounds like you could use some.

He was a pretty good husband before the affair. Not a big talker, but he was caring and kind and honest. No secrets, always left his phone out, I knew all his passwords, if I was upset (about whatever) he would comfort me...but we had grown apart for sure. We had gotten into a bad rut where we did our own thing after the kids went to bed. He'd play computer games and I would read, or whatever. But he's always made me feel safe, I've never worried about him cheating or lying or anything like that. So this lack of interest in making me happy, and the dishonesty...it's all new.

I asked him the other day if he had decided BEFORE the affair that he didn't love me. He was gone for 3 months and I was wondering if he had decided that while he was apart from me, even before he got involved with OW. He said "I never said I don't love you." Um, ok. But he said he definitely realized that we had grown apart. It seems like he thinks that is impossible to recover from, especially now that he had the A.

I don't know. I want to go out to the living room and ask him more directly if he has heard from her. His response was so vague and not at all reassuring.

Can you do that without LB'ing? Let him know that it would hurt, but you would appreciate knowing if she contacted him for his BD. Make it safe for him.

If he was a good husband before, he will be again.