OK-let's see what you all can tell me to help me out now. My story is long as anyone who has read it knows. masically let's say my H and best friend had a two year affair. I found out 15 weeks ago today I feel as though I am stuck in time-the questions just will NOT leave me alone. <BR>My new question is : How can both of them claim their hatred for each other when they carried on such a long affair? I realize they must absolutely hate themselves for what they did-and I am glad they do. But I don't understand the games with other peoples emotions. First of all my H told me he didn't have any feelings for her. I was awestruck. The guy I am married to and live with is super loving and caring-how could he have a 2 year afaair and not have had feelings for her? Well, as I learned later-after many tears and the OW's H telling me things, he did have feeligns for her. as much as that hurt to hear at least I knew he was who I thought he was. But now ever since he has told me about the affair he has said how he hates her, hopes never to even see her on the road, so on and so forth. She basically said the same things to me when I finally had a "chat" with her on the phone about 2 weeks ago. <BR>I just do NOT get it-how do you hate someone you did so much with for so long?<BR>I think the reason I am having such a hard time moving forward is because I can't seem to believe so many things that I am hearing-from either side. Trust me-I am glad they at elast say they ahte each other but I am not stupid. I think if there is any hate it is just that they hate it being known now and they hate the guilt they have to live with.<BR>I love my H so very much-haven't stopped for a minute. But I just don't know how to move ahead in this situation. The depression over my loss of security and self worth kills me daily. I just have to make more sense of this before I can ride the next wave.<P>Thanks so much for all your help-I appreciate each and every one of you <P><P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<BR>"Loyalty Is A Two Way Street"<BR>

heartache<BR>Wish I could help you figure this one out.<BR>Maybe the fantasy is over and they really see the other person in the real world and don't like what they see?<BR>I know that my H has told me he doesn't hate the OW but he sees things about her that he never saw before - her selfishness for instance.<BR>Their secret friendship went on for seven years before the physical affair. I really do believe that in all that time he only saw what he wanted to.<BR>The word "hate" is very strong but it could be summing up the feelings about what they did and transferring it to who they did it with. Just some thoughts.<BR>One thing I'm learning from this experience is that we will never understand everything we want to. How can we if they don't? Sometimes we have to find ways to accept what we can't understand. Not fun though is it?

Well heartache, there are two possible answers to your question...<P>One of them you kinda answered yourself. Maybe they're both lying, they're both <B>saying</B> they hate each other because they don't want to say their true feelings.<P>Or the other answer is that it is a common reaction of betrayers to hate the OP after breaking off. It's a way of dealing with the withdrawal. They over-exaggerate the bad points of the OP and build up this hate that they wouldn't normally feel. It's all a reaction.<P>my .02 <BR>--andy

heartache - consider yourself fortunate that your H says he hates the ow. How I wish my H would say that! When I asked awhile ago what it was like to see her (they work together) he said he felt nothing - but he defends her when I express my hatred for her.<BR>Anyway, it would be music to my ears to hear H say he hates her for her part in hurting our family.

Thanks wasstubborn and airheart for your responses. I am not too sure that I am gaining here yet but ................i sure do appreciate your time.<P>Simone-I understand what you are saying. I am so very lucky to have my H here with me-wanting me to let him make it up to me and wanting to work on our marriage. The sad thing is-I never ever knew anything was wrong with our marriage. I am not saying everything was fantastic and all because we lead lives the same as others do-but we don't fight and argue. I now have a super bad attitude and I know that each and every day I do or say things that will push my wonderful H away from me. But something deep within tells me I now possess a license to do or say whatever I please-such as he did. I am halfway to not caring about anything any more. I am so tired of fighting to have happiness in my life. I did think I hd the world on a string when I met and married my H. After a terrible childhood and a terrible first marraige of 13 years I thought I found my very own God-my H was everything a woman would want in a man. But now that he has done this to me and I can't seem to figure out why I just don't care about even trying. I mean I love him-but I will be damned if I am going to become a doormat. I think if my H defended the OW I would stuff it where the sun doesn't shine I mean that-I won't allow him to hurt me any more.<BR>I wish you the best of luck and pray that some day soon your H will wake up and smell the coffee-appreciate you for you and forget about defending anyone but YOU.<P><P>------------------<BR>*heartache*<BR>"Loyalty Is A Two Way Street"<BR>

Hi Heartache -<P>Let me begin by saying that I am sorry for all the confusion and pain you are going through...this whole nightmare of infidelity just stinks!!!! And to have to add a close friend in the mix..UGH, I could not imagine the double-whammy....I am so sorry.<P>A few things you have said here really disturb me....so, if you pardon my ignorance if you've said this somewhere here before........<P>Where does it stand with your friend? Why do you still communicate with her or her H? I'm just asking because I think this is a major block to you in moving forward....it's just keeping you angry and the wounds fresh!!!<P>I, certainly understand all that you have said you felt about your marriage and your H as far as not really knowing about any big problems....I felt that way also. Then I looked at other aspects of life in general in the years prior and discovered a sort of snowball effect of life issues that could have led H to this...<P>I think that you need some help with your feelings...have you been to counseling? Have you and H talked about any of the MB concepts or any other "tools" that relationships need to avoid this kind of thing in the future? Or are you both just floating along?<P>Your pride is hurt....very understandable!!! But PLEASE, Heartache, don't let your pride rule your future.....your H made a very big mistake and a very BAD choice!!! Do not play judge and jury...everyone is human!! This is not an excuse - it's merely a fact!! <P>For some reason, he chose poorly...he must now learn what happened to get him to make that choice, why, and how he should have handled his "problems" or whatever was going through his mind better.<P>If he is willing to learn and better himself....isn't it worth a second chance? Does real love go out the window because of a bad choice? He has recognized and hopefully is remorseful for what he has done. He will never understand the pain and anguish that his actions have caused you.....your trying to inflict some of that back on him will not show him either....<P>Please, look into your heart!!! If you need help with forgiveness, we have a wonderful series of threads titled "the Forgiveness Workbook" on this site that we've been learning (I think since June or July?) It will help you and so will we......<P>DO you love your Husband? Then stop punishing him....it does nothing for you except lower your own self worth eventually. <P>I hope this has helped some and I will say prayers that God lighten your heart and free your mind of just the focus of the affair.....that He will allow you to let yourself move forward with your H.<P>BIG HUGS,<P>Sheba<P>

Heartache,<P>So sorry to hear about your pain. I would like to "ditto" what you have already heard. What I have learned from my W's betrayal is that I will not let her get away with some of the things that happened in the past. But that also does not mean I have the right to become abusive. If my W ever wants to work on our marriage, and I hope someday she does, my direction would be to find ways to communicate with love and respect. If you have something negative to say, say it in a positive way. It will build the both of you. You will feel better about yourself and him. He will feel better in that he is learning the truth from you without condemnation. Believe me, it is a big boost to a man when he starts to communicate without feeling he will be put down. A few times of that negative input will surely dampen his ability to want to make it work. You have an opportunity to take advantage of this time with him. He is most willing to change at this time. Maybe 6 months from now you will not have the same opportunity. Both of you will need to change your thinking.<P>------------------<BR>7Habits (Dane)<BR>"The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them." Einstein.<BR>

Sheba-thanks so much for your input. I am always willing to lsiten to whatever anyone has to say to me.<BR>So far as the "friend"................I don't talk to her any more. As soon as I found out what she did to me and our friendship I quit talking to her. But after she continued to send me e mails I wrote back and said "how dare you ruin my family and my kids security". She of course wrote back in toital defense of herself basically blaming my H for most everything other than her willingness to participate. But as time went on-remember it has now been 15 weeks-my anger grew and grew because I found out so much more of what went on during their affair. She lied about a whole lot of things and if anything makes me mad it is someone who lies. At one point she had me wondering if my H hadn't raped her with the way she talked. I felt I had to let her know of some of the things she somehow forgot to tell her H-things she did that most certainly incriminated her. But then I got an e mail from her H and he told me of yet another thing I didn't yet know. I was so hurt. As soon as H got home from seeing his dieing brother 4 hours away I confronted him. He then told me of even more things he had supposedly not wanted to share with me "to spare my feelings". I was so tired of it all-and when I tried to go to bed I just started crying like a big old baby. I got up, got in my car and headed out of here. I went into town and called the OW's H. I wanted to tell him that I can't take any more-I also wanted to kill his W. We talked for about 2 hours. During this time the OW woke up and he asked if I wanted to talk with her. I said no. I had calmed some after talking with him for so long and as most of us want all I wanted was to ehar this was all a big bad joke. He talked to me some more then asked again. I said no again. Then he asked if she could talk to me-I said no thanks. Finally I agve in and she got on the phone and said how very sorry she was. Well, I opened my big mouth and told her not half as sorry s I am. I told her how much she hurt me and my life. Maybe it is my fault for relying on my H for my happiness but I always felt so long as I had him nothing-and I do mean nothing-could get in the way of my happiness. well, she showed me didn't she? Anyhow-as this conversation went on I just told her in plain english some things I knew she had done-things that I knew were very true-she got pretty quiet. That was the last time I tlaked with her and I am sure there won't be any more contact between us. I haven't any desire for her so called friendship ever again. As for her H I feel sorry for him. I know only too well his pain. He hasn't told anyone-so he has only me or her to talk to. He has confronted my H. I didn't do anything worng and I feel that this poor guy needs an ear once in awhile himself. I have told him I can't take any more stories-my depression is way too deep to keep having the pain renewed. But as long as he needs to talk with someone I will be there-and I haven't nor have I ever had any feelings for him beyond friendship. But I am a "good friend" unlike his wife was to me-I will remain his friend as long as he needs me.<BR>Yes Sheba-I love my H more than life. He is everything any woman would want-looks, charm, helpful, kind, the list goes on. And yes I do want to work on my marriage. I jsut can't seem to climb this wall that he and the OW built around my heart. I ahve spent way too many eyars being hurt to allow another pain into my world. However-I am aware it is bound to happen at some point in the future. I just want to understand why this ever happened. I don't want to pretend it never did and have it hapen again.<BR>Whew-what a ton of talking here. I need to shush for now. I thank you again for the help-I do appreciate it!!<P>7Habits-I appreciate your input also-I am trying to work on those things now. I jsut read in Redbook magazine an article that really gave me some insight to some faults I ahve. Innocent as they may seem reading them made me realize maybe my loving H isn't all it will take. Thanks again!!

I too went through a stage where I hated the OM...I think it's natural, I wouldn't worry about it too much.<P>Your husband probably realized that he wanted to be with you for several reasons...he couldn't live with the guilt if he left, he'd miss you too much, the OW wasn't all that great anyway, it's the right thing...<P>He probably wants to make a clean break from the OW and the easiest way for him to do this is to hate her. Having an affair can be very painful for betrayers as well as the betrayed. Since it's based on lies it's very easy to be hurt. Your husband and the OW decided to be true to the people they married and that can cause alot of feelings of rejection which can cause you to hate someone to cover up the pain.<P>Immediately following my hate stage towards the OM came no feelings towards him either way...so this can be your husbands final stage (as long as he has no contact with her).<BR>