my story, found out my WW was having affair on 12/20. She admitted it immediatly, OM is superviser at work. She claims affair only been going on for aprox 6 weeks. seems to be soul mate. She promised to end it on 12/20 but started contact again almost immediatly. Now planning weekend away on her own to give her time to think. I know exactly what that means, wants a weekend away with OM. So far I have not exposed. Most in theis forum are strong advocates of exposure. Im confused why SAA does not mention exposure. Is this definatly the way to go? are there any other view points on this? I dont want to drink the cool aid (absalutly no offense intended) without all view points.

Im considering exposing to my MIL and FIL who live with us. Also to 2 SIL's. I expect they will be supportive of me. One concern i have, Although I have been avoiding love busters since d-day, could my inlaw's love busters to my WW have the same impact as mine?

I have been married 12 years, we have 2 young lids BB 6 and DD 4. I am a good and attentive father, but i have put my kids before my marrage.

WW is 37 I am 36. OM is 27 and just got engaged in september. My thoughts are not organised, please help.

YES...

Expose to MIL, FIL and S'sIL.

Also...OM's fiancee.

Don't forewarn your wife. She'll get angry but your marriage and family can survive anger whereas it can not and may not survive a never ending and ever deepening affair addiction.

Your children are counting on you to be strong and fight for your family. I KNOW how hard the decision to take action is. Your so used to supporting your wife and taking directions from her in order to keep the peace. Well, you can't conflict avoid yourself out of this one. It MUST BE DONE. The sooner the better.

The courage is in the doing.

Mr. Wondereing

p.s. -- welcome to marriage builders

p.p.s. - Exposing her AND OM at work is the next step.

p.p.p.s. - Very often getting OM to end the affair because it's too much of a hassle (like some 27 year old guy wants to run off and marry your wife, become a step father to your two kids, and LIVE with your in-laws). Don't lay off him as he's single and can very easily find other fish in the ocean OR, better yet...his fiance will place him on a tight leash and he will LOVEBUST the crap out of your wife to make her out to be nothing more than a chick he used. Either way...AFFAIR ends.

Exposure is what may have the best chance of ending the affair. Don't let her go off with OM to "think".

Expose to her parents, to their work (a letter to HR asking what they plan to do about an affair between a supervisor and employee), to his finance, parents, friends.

When the affair ends, she will feel more like working on the marriage.

Don't tell her you are going to expose, just DO IT.

Agree 100% with both Mr W and B.

MEDC drinks the koolaid. You should too.

lol... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

First,
WS Lie .....and they lie big time.
So although it is possible that this is true .....it may be far from it.

For example:
MY W had me convinced that her A was ONLY 3-4 months old at time of discover.
Then thanks to a fair plan A (Thanks MBers <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)......I was informed much later that it was closer to 2yrs old.
[Say WHAT] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Yea,
big difference.
Just want you to keep in mind that when your this close to d-day .....and with an unrepentive WS to boot .....the Real/Whole Story more than likely STILL needs to come out.



In my estimation, No.

Another person's words, deeds or actions are NOT tied directly to YOUR W's Love Bank towards You .

However,
Their Disapproval does put strain and pressure on your W's infidelity.
That is exactly the kind of reality that you want to inject into her fantasy world.

Indeed Its true,
A's Thrive in secrecy.
Hence the Hot Light of Honesty and Openness tends to leave them little place to hide in the Shadows.

Hey,
I've been where you are Now. (workplace, superior issues)

Sadly,
I let my W and her CLB convince me that the only persons that NEEDED to Know about their secrets were the 3 of us.
Which also allowed them to continue to work together.

In addition,
the most difficult (ie, terrifying) time came when it all came to a head,
and the workplace and others came to find out about the Workplace Affair.
Rough times for sure.

Thankfully the CLB was asked to resign (or be fired) ....and then my W decided to leave a couple of months later.
We just needed a cleaner start ....new jobs, new house, new schools, new area ..the works.

Lastly,
[as you were told previously]
whenever and to whomever you do decide to expose to ........ DO NOT GIVE ANY HEADS UP or OTHER WARNING TO YOUR WW or THE OM!!!!
EVER!!!

THIS IS CRITICAL!

Yes,
I know it makes us feel better to bluster and get a reaction out of them ........but you'll only be hurting your own chances should you give any indication that your going to do this.

Its tough enough having to take on the 2 of them,
please don't end up hindering YOURSELF by your Own Actions .

In addition,
Be sure that they already have at least a skeleton plan in place to deal with any accusations you should make .........SOOOO don't give them any Extra Assistance in using more lies in an attempt to discredit you.

Since you can come up with a Real plan [Which you appear to be doing & is by the way your biggest advantage].....don't give your strategy away ......instead let THEM scramble when the microscope is turned towards their duplicity.

Keep in mind that WS's play hard to Keep their A's ........so to succeed in your Goals,
Unfortunately...... YOU have to Play Harder.

Wishing you only success in your Journey. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sincerely greatful to all who have responded so far.
my next question about exposure. Whats the best way? In person? email? telephone.

better or worse,

It's always bothered me too that exposure gets no press at all in SAA. Dr. H does talk about it on the radio show....but I'd really love to see at least some articles about it here on MB.

The best possible thing you could do would be to call the Harley's and get good advice and guidance right from the source.

Obviously.....we're not pros....but those of us who have been here for a while have developed our opinions based on what we heard from the Harleys, and seeing how these things play out with other people.

I like the description of exposure (described originally by long time poster WAT) as a construct of concentric rings. The first ring of defense is the other betrayed spouse (in this case, fiance). If that doesn't work to end the affair, you widen the ring. The next ring would include family, clergy, and very close friends....and so on. With workplace affairs....exposure there can really stop an affair in it's tracks....but it can be more drastic....and it's my opinion that it belongs on the "outer" rings rather than the first wave of exposure.

There are lots of folks here who believe very strongly in total exposure right away. And I'm not saying they're wrong....not at all.....because it definitely creates an explosion. I just wonder if it doesn't also create a pretty large bomb crater to fill up afterwards. I'm also very unconvinced that the way exposure is described sometimes here....is very different from what the Harleys actually advise. Again....I wish we had some point of reference that was more visisble.

I prefer making an attempt....at least early on....to end the affair with the least amount of collateral damage to work, extended family, kids etc.

You can't recover your marriage at all if the affair doesn't end....so exposure makes sense, but I think it also makes sense to create the smallest explosion needed to do the job....as a good recovery strategy as well. The general argument is that if you don't end the affair....no other strategy is worth a dang....and it's true. I still prefer the early concentrated exposure....which allows the WS to end the affair before a nuclear response....is worth doing. If contact resumes....the next circle is considerable larger and then larger still.

This is a hotly debated subject on the board.....which is why I've suggested getting guidance from the Harleys, because it can be really confusing.

Welcome to MB....sorry about your sitch. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

betterorworse, I wholeheartedly agree that you should call the Harleys for counseling. Steve Harley is absolutely the BEST. He charges $185 an hour and is worth every penny. Steve told me personally that he very much endorses exposure, however, whenever he is counseling a couple, he sometimes DELAYS it until he can FIRST have an opportunity to SELL the WS on ending her affair. If one is not in counseling with him or his attempt to persuade the WS to stop the affair does not work, then all bets are OFF and exposure IS recommended as indicated by Dr. Harley, the FOUNDER of Marriage Builders.

You can also attend a MB weekend or do a MB Home Study course.

Another avenue you have at your disposal is Dr. Harley's radio show. You can call him up directly on Mon, Wed or Friday and speak to him yourself on his show. It is free of charge and he will send you a free book for the call.

While the best avenue is to get assistance from them, it is not required. They set this board up for ppl for that very reason. We have many ppl here who have recovered their marriages fully without counseling, etc.

Exposure is simply the most potent weapon in your arsenal. Dr. Harley phrases it like this:


The most effective way to expose, in my experience, has been to do it all in one fell swoop. It should have a tsunami effect so the affairees cannot quickly recover and so they cannot pre-empt you. This way, you deal with the fallout of ONE huge explosion, rather than several small ones. I think to do it any other way is the equivalent of bringing a pea shooter to a gun fight.

Additionally, Dr. Harley is adamant that the children ALWAYS BE TOLD. This effects their lives in a huge way and they need the truth and they need your MORAL GUIDANCE. Children can deal with the truth, they cannot deal with lies. It is my opinion that they be told before all else so they are prepared.


edited to add that the quotes above are posts from Dr Harley on the MB Weekend Forum on this website

Generally, that will have to be decided by you. But for a workplace exposure, I would recommend a certified letter addressed to the director of Human Resources, with cc's to key people such as the affairees bosses and perhaps a key VP. They all need to know that the others have been notified so that no one gives into the temptation to sweep the letter under the carpet. Here is a template that was developed by a board member who is a corporate atty who deals with workplace affairs: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0&fpart=2

Other exposures can be done by a phone call. But is it important to say when you call friends and family that you are: asking for their help. ASK FOR THEIR SUGGESTIONS. Dr. Harley recommends doing it this way, because it motivates ppl to become involved on your behalf. Tell them you are trying to save your marriage and ask for their help.

At the top of your list, I would start with the OM's girlfriend. That will be a critical exposure.

Yes indeed,
this is the manner in which I prefer to view exposure with as well.
Thanks for mentioning that Star Fish...doesn't WAT have a sticky thread on that somewhere? (maybe on just found out??)

With this approach,
Start with OP's Wife/Girlfriend, WW's family .....then work outward from there should you not see the results your looking for.

On the other hand, (just for balance) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
some do prefer the scorched earth policy of complete total disclosure (ALL at the same time).
Arguing that this puts Optimum pressure on the A,
instead of letting the Affair partners put out smaller fires along the way.

Plus some individuals just want to get it all out there and not have to keep facing new people in upcoming weeks.
Cause lets face it, telling others this stuff ain't comfortable in the least .... so there is something to just doing it all at once.

IN addition ,
the "ring" application is basically stating start with those persons that Have THE MOST Influence over the Affair partners, then work outwards from that.

However,
with Work Place Affairs ...it could be said that the Employer "is" the most influential entity that effects BOTH the WS, as well as the OP equally.
To be sure,
its Kind of double strength exposure ....as with one telling,
Both of them are hit where it hurts simultaneously.

PLUS:
it tends to PUSH them apart (as they begin to turn on each other to protect their own interests -- ie : career/azzes).

Also,
if the workplace is Where the Contact is occurring ......well, any way to disrupt that fertile ground is usually advisable.
One goal is to make their time together become Uncomfortable ....not continue to be a place of refuge.

In the end,
Guess each must determine what would be most effective in their own situation .....as I'm sure each type of exposure is appropriate for differing circumstances, as well as personalities.

Main thing is NOT to let fear Paralyze you into InAction.
That is one of the keys.
And believe me, I KNOW how hard it can be.
However,
courage is not the absence of fear ....its doing what needs to be done, in the presence of it.
Stay the course. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Agree very much with many of your points, toprope:


It is no fun to carry on an affair while others are watching. The workplace especially. Workplace exposure for workplace affairs is important for other reasons too, namely that the affair leaves the employer vulnerable for lawsuits. Secondly, one of them will have to leave the job anyway if recovery is to ever take place. Exposure at work is in EVERYONE'S best interest, the wayward, the BS, and the employer. To not do so is to ENABLE the affair, IMO.



To toprope's point, everyone has FEAR, but to choose to allow FEAR to run the ship will ensure you end up crashed on the rocks. Courage is making a decision to TAKE ACTION in SPITE OF FEAR.

better or worse,

As far as children go.....I too believe that children must be told in an age appropriate way. Even little guys like you have, are very perceptive. Each parent has to decide what is reasonable for their own children....but it must be truthful. However, I do not believe that telling children has any relationship to "exposure" as a strategy to end an affair. It's just about being truthful to children who really need to understand their world in a way that makes sense to them....not about creating pressure on the affair. Children sometimes naturally do serve the purpose of putting on pressure....because they are so guileless and honest (It's very hard for a WS to face the admonishment of their children)....but they are not exposure targets in the sense that they are part of any sort of "strategy" early on IMHO.

toprope....I'll look for the original description from WAT. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

betterorworse, just understand that Dr. Harley DOES recommend exposure to children for their own interest. IMO, they should be told FIRST in order to better prepare them for potential fallout:

correction on my previous post! Someone just pointed out to me that Dr. Harley is taking a 6 month break from his radio show so he won't be taking questions. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> You can, however, listen to rebroadcasts every day which would be very helpful.

top rope,

Here's one of the first posts where WAT described the "concentric circles" analogy. I've always really liked it:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post1186190

toprope,

And this one for sure:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post1168899

IMHO the sooner exposure happens, the better.

My WXH was a serial adulterer so (unfortunately) I had plenty of opportunity to try different ways of responding to the discovery of betrayal.

I tried the keeping it secret or only exposing to a tiny circle of family/friends approach... That just gave the adulterers more time to cheat and to tell justification lies. I can see now that when I failed to expose quickly and completely the adulterers were able to stay a few steps ahead of me in taking their adultery deeper underground and/or in soliciting support for it from folks who heard the adulterers' spin before I got to talk to them.

Also, IMHO pre-exposure, plan A hasn't even started. So any deposits into the WS's love-bank pre-exposure just adds to the appeal of cake-eating. The BS not only has to sort of compete with the OP but also with the cake-eating phase when the WS enjoys both the OP and the BS. IMHO that's one reason why exposure should happen ASAP and Plan A should not be stayed in for too long before going to Plan B. It's not just the OP the WS gets addicted to - but also the cake-eating. The longer the cake-eating continues unchallenged by exposure and objection, the more resistant the WS becomes to ever giving it up and choosing either the OP or the BS. When Plan A starts the BS sort of has to compete against themself plus the OP, the cake-eating phase becomes even tougher competition than the OP themself. The love bank deposits the BS makes pre-exposure are IMHO wasted on making it that much harder to compete against the WS's delusional hope to continue cake-eating forever.

My sincere thanks to everyone who took the time to post here. Im feeling much better about exposure now. It feels right and inaction feels wrong. Hopefully I will update on the outcome in the next few days.