I agree. I just can't see how that will possibly happen.

I'm sorry. Please don't take offense. I know I have no choice but to be a big girl now. But it's so unfair. I didn't make these decisions. I do love him. And I miss him. I had a great day today! I cannot afford to have the feelings I'm having right now. I'm very bitter that 11 years is gone. I hate that he is probably surrounded by "buddies"...the same buddies who, for 11 years, don't ask him how he's doing - don't ask him how the kids are doing - don't help him when he's in a pinch. But they've got the beer, almost always. And he feels peace with THEM!? He CHOSE them over US? And my kids can even smile while talking about him?

When do I get my time to shine?

You sound like you need an Alanon meeting.

But no matter what, Julie, the decision is always yours. I am not going to sit here and try to talk you into doing something you don't want to do. You can always go back to what you were doing and we will refund your misery. It is YOUR LIFE.

"maybe it will be different this time...." <-----famous last words

right?

Did I say that?

No, I want help, and you've been that, along with all those wonderful, kind, caring, compassionate, divorced strangers. I'm sorry for being a big baby.

I want my marriage back. I don't know why, but I hold the good times...I always have, that's why this has continued. I'm a chronic stay-er and he's a chronic leave-er.

And NO, I WON'T go back to where I was a year ago. I PROMISED my kids we won't be there EVER again.

Yea, I need 12 Al-Anon meetings.

I seem to be d*mned if I do/d*mned if I don't!

Julie,

I remember SO WELL those feelings and the life with a crazy maker alcoholic. He was a master at blame shifting and often making me believe that I was the crazy one. (And sometimes I was). While I was reading your thread I thought, "she needs a meeting", but as I read on I see Mel beat me to it.

BTW, I used to just hate it when I would get caught up in the injustice of it all, the upset, etc and someone would say, "you need a meeting". I just wanted to roll my eyes and scream, you don't understand! HE did this. It's unfair. Look, he gets to go have fun ad I am stuck with all the responsiblities. Then I would go to the meeting. And then I would be centered, able to get a grip and carry on in a more healthy manner. So, roll yoor eyes and scream if you want, but yes dear, you need a meeting.

It IS crazy making, you know that. I remember while I was in the thick of it thinking he was addicted to drinking but I was becoming addicted to the crazy making.

Hang in there Julie. This is HARD work. STICK with alanon. If you don't like the group, find another one. I went to many before I found the one that was right for me. Don't worry about the other's that are enabling. I understand how you feel, but keep your focus on you. They have had a life with your A and have found their own ways to deny / cope. You can't change them anymore than you can stop him from drinking. Keep the focus on you and the kids.

What "divorced" strangers???

Julie,

When I mentioned an atty....I didn't mean for a divorce, but you have to be realistic about the fact that your husband may not follow through with his financial obligations now that he has his own apartment and completely separate living expenses.....not to mention....he still has an addiction. I'd like to think that he wouldn't let his children suffer....but he's an addict and you aren't going to be able to count on his support. I agree with Mel....start getting your ducks in a row in case you need to move to Plan B.

I'm so sorry you're hurting. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I understand that you love him and want him back. Not a thing wrong with that. Once you have started the WORK (and it really is WORK) you will learn to detach from the craziness and draw your boundries.

I remember a therapist I went on early on. After a session with him he had a session with me. I remember so clearly that he opened our session with, "He has been cheating on you. He has another woman in his life." I could hardly breath. I couldn't believe it. Then he said, "the other woman is alcohol". And he was right! He lied to get to it. He took risks with his health and our relationship to get it. He'd do ANYTHING for it. For me THAT was my first moment of understanding.

I did a lot of work, went to a lot of meetings, lived through a few relapses adn have come out very solid and healthy on the other side.

Stick with this. It is going to change your life.

I was thinking the same thing. She reminds of a drunk who hasn't had a drink in 5 days and getting the bad sweats! She is addicted to the craziness.

sickofthis1961, you said: They have had a life with your A and have found their own ways to deny / cope.

My A? I don't understand, will you clarify? There's no A...not EA, not PA, well at least not that I know of or not why I came here, this time. And thanks for chiming in, maybe I can convince you to stick with me?

MelodyLane: The majority of the Al-Anon folks (ladies) I've met, so far, have been DIVORCED women. Very strong, seemingly content, DIVORCED women. I know, I know, but it scares me as I just don't want that.

star*fish: I just don't want to go there!

Guys, I don't roll my eyes or dislike the meetings - it may be a LONG time till I find "the right group" simply because I'd really like to be going there EVERY DAY! But for now I cannot, I can't leave my kids home alone! Not too many people are in my court. Not none, just not many. You are absolutely right, I need a meeting, I felt more centered & confident after the ones I attended too, I wish I could go every day, that really was my plan/hope. In any case, yes I will stick with it and no I won't give up Al-Anon.

A-hem..."she" is standing right here...!

Yea, I'm addicted to a whole lotta stupid stuff. I want my husband back. No, I will not go and beg for him back (I don't even know where he is, whew!) and I will not lower my standards. Yep, I guess that's what the sweats are...I'm going bananas. I was OK w/the stuff gone. I was OK not talking to him. Was OK w/him talking to the kids. But APARTMENT!??! OH God I don't know when I'll swallow that one!

I'm calming down. I'm almost ready to ask y'all what I should do next. I lost my SAA book, and on pages 73-something Plan B is outlined. Well, crap.

Do you write a Plan B letter, even when the estranged has clearly chosen to leave you?

Julie,

Sorry for the confusion...A = your alcoholic. That is how we refer to them on the alanon boards. I understand there is no affair. Im sorry for the confusion.

Yes, here is a good plan B letter that you can use as a template:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post1143897

Go light on the sentimentality, keep it short and to the point so he GETS IT.

Julie, also, sometimes the definition of success IS divorce when the alternative is being married to an abusive drunk. Keep that in mind. It is also important to accept that while some alcoholics do sober up, MOST DON'T. Only about 10% die sober. Those are not great odds.

The odds sure are stacked against him, aren't they?

sockofthis: Al-Anon boards? I had no idea...I did try to find some via Google but landed nowhere fast. If y'all don't mind putting up with my crap I'll post here but I do feel guilty as this is more of an infidelity board.

Sure Julie, I'll stick around. I am willing to bet that he is just thrilled to have his apartment so he will be free to drink as much as he wants to without you around to interfere. And like Mel said, he could very well find himself free to hit his bottom. It is extraordinarily hard to watch them do this. You will want to "rescue" but remember that is enabling.

Before I understood aloholism I could never undertand how he could "choose" beer over me and his family. It just baffled my mind and made me crazy. In the one hand a devoted wife and adorable kids, nice house, etc and in the other a Bud. And he would choose the Bud. That was so painful. I learned the disease is so much more than that.

The biggest (and toughest for overly nurturing enabling types like me) lesson was that I could not control what he did. I couldn't control that he drank. I couldn't control his family (that includes a mass of either enabling types or drinkers themselves).

It took a lot of work before I could release that. I could stop trying to check his trunk, his drawers, his car for emtpies and receipts. I could stop trying to look for healthy support from his family and friends. I hate to beat a dead horse, but I only found it in alanon. My family and dear friends usually gave me loving but horrible advise which usually was "just leave him, you'd be better off". That may or not be the result, but it denies you the work you need to do to heal.

Hang in there, I must be a very difficult day.

Well, maybe he's in a slum - you know, one of those boarding houses, where you pay by the week & sleep on a cot that MANY people have slept on? Not that that's a pretty picture. Maybe he's got a loft I dream about, who knows! Trying to guess it or figure it out or spy my way to the exact location will likely drive me (more) insane.

I'm not an overly nurturing type. Sometimes, I'm overly ignoring. My mind can get so one-tracked that I really do forget to clean the house for a month. Or do laundry for a week. Or, sometimes I'll be online (heh) for 3 hours while he watches TV & attempts small talk w/me once in a while. And then retreats to the basement to get high. And then comes back upstairs to go to sleep, me in his arms.

His life here was miserable too. I know I'm responsible for a lot of it. I'd like a second shot at that. Because maybe, maybe it's true: if I'd been more attentive or less selfish he wouldn't have chosen alcohol so often. If I'd taken him out to dinner maybe he wouldn't have had "our dealer" over for a re-stock. If I hadn't been out to the farm 3x this week maybe he would have stayed home w/me on the weekend instead of getting black-out-drunk.

Don't be mad at me for saying those things. Maybe.

ah yes, the guilts...another codependent behavior that you will spend time learning about...:)

I was the opposite. I really like an organized, well-run house. I used to feel the "if onlys" about that. If only I would have let the house go a bit and spent more time with him he wouldn't drink.

The truth is...while it's good to see where we can improve ourselves and our relatioship, it has nothing to do with their drinking. I am sure that if I let the house get a mess, he would have drank. I would bet that if you got yours more organized, he would still drink/get high. Alcoholics are masters at blame shifting. You will learn to work on that.

I would confront him about his drinking and he would deny it. Then he would say, well you did this or that or you didn't do this or that and within an instant we were no longer talking about his drinking. We were talking about what I did or didn't do. I had to really learn how to handle those conversations and prevent the blame shifting. I am certainly not perfect and I make my share of mistakes. But really, none of them were a cause for him to go out and drink his paycheck or get in a fight with me. In fact, I learned that he would often pick a fight so he could go out and drink. Then he could say it was because I just wanted to argue and he wanted to get away from me. Please avoid getting caught up in that.

And since you are the "more overly ignoring type" you might be better at the detachment part than I was!

Gotta run, I'll check in tomorrow

just one more quick thing about your alanon group. You said there were many who were divorced. Mine has many that are divorced too but there are also lots that are in recovery and several that are still living with an active A and learning to live their lives that way. While it happens often enough, not everyone ends up divorced.