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Joined: Dec 2007
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Well, all signs point to my husband having an affair in Iraq while he was gone for 1.5 yrs. He still will not admit to it - he says to me that he just does not love me anymore and wants to find love. I have been a model wife and mother to our 2 children and supported him and took care of everything while he was away. I tried to help him get therapy but he still does not love me. I tried to give him love but he can't even make love to me. I filed for divorce yesterday because I can not stand it anymore. What is more awful is the thought of the OW with him starting his new life and leaving me broke. What did I do to deserve this?

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Sally,

Are you absolutely sure that you really feel that a divorce is the only option? I have no reason to doubt that your H had an affair while in Iraq, but beyond your gut instinct (which by the way is usually right) what evidence do you have that he had or is still having an affair.

If you haven't already done so, please read the information on this site carefully. Also, please provide a bit more information like how long you have been married and the age of your children.

Don't give up, many here have been where you are and now have better marriages than before the affair.

Best,


Who


I am the BW,
He is the FWH
D-Day: 12/02/03

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I'm sorry you are here, Sally, but glad you found this site/forum. It is full of info and people who can help you.

Ask your H if he could be back in love with you and BOTH of you could be happy together and raise your children together as a family...wouldn't he rather do this? Make sure you stress that you would BOTH be in love with each OTHER working TOGETHER to raise your children.

If you still love him, don't make it easy for him by doing the filing. Read all you can on this site aout how to Plan A/Plan B and how to (hopefully) bring him around to telling you the truth. It is possible that he knows how much you have done while he was gone, and that telling you is something (he thinks) you cannot handle. Try to convince him that you CAN handle anything he has to tell you. Create a safe environment for him to be open and honest.

Is it possible that this could be related to PTSS? What has your red flag up about an A?


Peace,
LaLa

FWW(me) 37
BS 38
DS 9 & 5
PA 7/06-8/06
Dday 2/17/07

Fogapalooza-My Babbly Beginning
My Story
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I just want to let you know you can still work it through. My husband had an EA and a PA last year. Our road to recovery has been full force and we are in the clear- it was not easy for me to initiate and work him over- he was not willing for counceling, he was adimient about leaving and getting his own space. He though seperation was the only answer. I turned everything he had problems with around, attending IC counceling even though I thought he was the problem, not me- I found out through IC there were some issues in me which could use some resolution.

we came out of the fog and are now a happy and very loving martriage. I have issues within myself about the affair- he does not and refuse to talk about it- I know nothing about it. That is the worst of our issues now, though. He tells me each and everyday how wonderful I am, how beautiful, surprises me with gifts, etc. Seven months ago he was calling me some nasty names and saying he did not love me, never loved me, etc. One day he broke down in tear- he cried for days on end and apologized for hurting me- although he tried to make it clear he never had an affair...We have to make choices as spouses- do we hold out for the big pay off or let sleeping dogs lie. Personally (I am glad I endured everything I went through. I am happy in my marriage and qam thankful for eah day I awake with him laying next to me. I am thankful I can trust him- I fully trust him- and I am thankful the same applies to me!!!

I just wanted to share my story with you because it is too easy to sign a paper and give up- however a marriage is about working hard to survive- a marriage is the hardest thing you will ever endure. The funny part about it is it takes a lifetime of work and dedication- I knew I did not want to be looking back in ten years wondering if my marrieg would have survived- I wanted to ensure I played all the peices before admitting defeat.

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Sorry I can not agree that just forgetting about the affair is the solution. Sweeping the affair under the rug and not actually figuring out what caused the betrayal does not work.

Please read below from the MB newsletter -

Quote
The plan I recommend for recovery after an affair is very specific. That's because I've found that even small deviations from that plan are usually disastrous. But when it's followed, it always works. The plan has two parts that must be implemented sequentially. The first part of the plan is for the unfaithful spouse to completely separate from the lover and eliminate the conditions that made the affair possible. The second part is for the couple to create a romantic relationship, using my Basic Concepts as a guide.

I'll describe these two parts to you in a little more detail.

The first step, complete separation from the lover and eliminating the conditions that made the affair possible, requires a complete understanding of the affair. All information regarding the affair must be revealed to the betrayed spouse, including the name of the lover, the conditions that made the affair possible (travel, internet, etc.), the details of what took place during the affair, all correspondence, and anything else that would shed light on the tragedy.

This information is important for two reasons: (1) it creates accountability and transparency, making it essentially impossible for the unfaithful spouse to continue the affair or begin a new one unnoticed, and (2) it creates trust for the betrayed spouse, providing evidence that the affair is over and a new one is unlikely to take its place. The nightmares you experience are likely to continue until you have the facts that
will lead to your assurance that your husband can be trusted.

An analysis of the betrayed spouse's childhood or emotional state of mind in an effort to discover why he or she would have an affair is distracting and unnecessary. It takes precious time away from finding the real solutions. I know why people have affairs: We are all wired for it. Given certain conditions, we would all do it. Given other conditions, however, none of us would do it. So the goal of the first step is to discover the conditions that made the affair possible and eliminate them.

After the first step is completed, the second step is to create a romantic relationship between you and your husband using my 10 Basic Concepts http://marriagebuilders.com/ca/to.cgi?l=qa080103bc
as your guide. While your relationship may be improving, it won't lead to a romantic relationship because you are not being transparent toward each other. Unspoken issues in a marital relationship lead to a superficiality that ruins romance.

Your nightmares are only the tip of the iceberg. They are but a small reflection of the suffering you experienced when you discovered your husband's affair, and the fear you have that the suffering will be repeated. You have no assurance that the affair is over because you don't even know who the other woman is. You are being asked to trust your husband, who has already proven to be untrustworthy. For all you know, he could be working with her, or you could be going to the same church, or she could be
your neighbor. And since he won't discuss the details of how the affair took place, you have no assurance that another affair will not take its place.

Infidelity is not something that can be swept under the rug. While those who have affairs want to forget about it and move on, those who are betrayed must take very specific steps before they can fully recover. In your case, those steps have not been taken, and as a result, your fear persists. I will send you a complimentary copy of my book, "Surviving an Affair," if you send me your address. It will describe these two steps to you and provide you with a roadmap toward full recovery. But the path will require full disclosure of all details.

Best wishes,

Willard F. Harley, Jr.


I urge caution in your situation betrayed, because you could end up in a false recovery if you don't follow the MB principles.

I speak from experience here. I thought too that my FWH and I could recover our marriage by picking and choosing which MB principles we wanted and ignoring the rest.

Well, at more than 3 1/2 years post dd, he started heading down the same road that had lead him to a EA and PA in 2003.

Who


I am the BW,
He is the FWH
D-Day: 12/02/03

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I'd be curious to know how she knows he was having an affair. I imagine there are a lot of things that happen in a war that could change a person. PTSD could also explain the things she mentioned. So unless there are other signs, I would not even assume an affair right now and would withdraw that divorce petition. Just my 2 cents worth.

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Hi MEDC,

That's why I asked her if she had any evidence. I know several people, both men and women who came back from Iraq pretty messed up. It takes a long, long time to readjust.

Who


I am the BW,
He is the FWH
D-Day: 12/02/03

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Joined: Sep 2003
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What are the signs that point to an affair? I thought he was having one, but you need to be certain.

And affairs always end, and he may want to come back. Why are you in such a hurry to divorce?

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Hi All. Thanks for responding to my post. The question that you all keep asking is do I have any proof of the affair. My husband is a terrible liar. I ask him and he can not deny or confirm. I caught him texting and then on New Year's Eve I found him on his phone checking messages at 12:15pm. I am not a dumb lady. I may be wrong. But he is completely dead inside for me. If I try to get close, there is no feeling. That may be the war that has killed his emotions. I tried to tell him that he is depressed from the war and I got him therapy. But he still says that it has nothing to do with Iraq, it is because he no longer loves me. He totally wants the divorce too - or thinks he does. I will grant his wish and let him go to her. I will take care of our children (ages 3&8) and go into debt over everything and lose everything materialistic I have, but I will not let him take my self esteem or destroy our children. I am letting him figure out and heal. This man has everything - home, children, loving wife, pets, great job, great military career. He is throwing it away. He needs to find him. I pray he does. I love him. But everyday he tells me that he is not attracted to me - it hurts inside. If he figures it out, and comes back, we will see - but by then I will have probably moved on. That is the choice he is making. Why divorce so fast (and by the way I didn't believe in it as an option), but he just bought a brand new car and I don't know what else he will do. I need to act fast to protect my children and me. Only time will tell what will happen - but I will not be used anymore. It hurts too much. He is ill, but I have done everything I could to get him help - now it is up to him.

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Of course you must protect your finances. That needs to be your first course of action.

Then you need to spy on him and find out WHO the OW is and start exposing the affair. She may be married too. Also let friends and family know what is going on.

Your children are depending on you to step up and fight for their family.

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Sally,

STOP, do not pass "go", do NOT file for D.

All of the things you say your husband has said are "normal" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> for a WS.

How are you helping yourself, him or your family by filing now?

The initial crush of reality after D-day is immense - as so many here know. It leads BSs into a kind of temporary insanity.

While it seems like the "right thing to do" to file - because he wants it - you do...what kind of sense is that?

You don't want to be divorced, do you? If not, don't file!

If you want to save your marriage - get started.

As believer said, you've got to fight for your family!

You're a commander's wife...do NOT give up!

L2F

First step - read, read, read, then develop a plan. There are many vets here to help out with that.

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Thanks for responding. No matter what I do, he continues to tell me he does not love me, and is not attracted to me. He tells me he should have never married me - hard working mother - he wanted someone more like his mom - stay at home wife he could totally control. At the military welcome home ceremony for the soldiers (that I planned as the commander's wife out of love for him) it was so clear to me the power he had over people while in Iraq and now back at home he can't control his wife or children. He wants out. He wants to find that control. Problem is he has everything he ever needed right here - loving wife, children, home, career. He is walking out not me. I have to let him so he can try to find that "love" he is looking for. I have set him up for counciling. I have taking care of everything for him for years so he could be the big man. He is a mess - but only he can figure himself out. Yesterday, after a huge fight with him over the phone, I sent him this e-mail. "Lord - I pray for XXXXXXX, may he find what he is looking for and give me peace." He sent me a thank you for the prayer. He needs to go - it will hurt me and the children - but we are strong - we have lived without him for over a year already - we need to get our lives back to normal and leave this war behind.

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Quote
No matter what I do, he continues to tell me he does not love me, and is not attracted to me. He tells me he should have never married me - hard working mother - he wanted someone more like his mom - stay at home wife he could totally control.

Rewriting the marital history is a classic rationalization technique for those who are having or had an A. It is all part of the "fog". There are experts on fogspeak and reverse babble who can help you respond to this nonsense. Although it is hurtful, it can and will get better if you get the tools to address the issues.

If he is having an A, whether just EA or PA, the first step is removing your spouse from the lover. You can't do this if you don't know for sure if there is a lover. Second step is to implement a good Plan A. Plan D-divorce is a long ways down the road. I would suggest immediately contacting the Harleys or a really good pro-marriage, pro-Harley counselor to help you develop and implement your plan to save your marriage.

Even if your plan fails and you ultimately end up in Plan D, you will be a better person for taking the tough road and your kids deserve no less.

NT


O God, give us the serenity to accept what cannot be changed, courage to change what should be changed, and wisdom to distinguish the one from the other... Rienhold Niebuhr
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I don't really have much advice for you, but just wanted to let you know that I am so sorry that you have to go through all this and deserve so much better. My husband spent 11 months in Iraq a few years ago and after coming home is just not the same man. Our marriage has been rocky from the start, but it was really strained for months after he returned. He is up for deployment again in February and I had hoped things were better and we would handle this one better, but he informed me in November that he isn't interested in trying anymore in our marriage and is moving out when he gets back next December. Claims it has nothing to do with this upcoming deployment other than it made him think about the chances of coming home/not coming home and doesn't want to spend anymore time unhappy in our marriage. He isn't in love with me anymore and can't waste time staying in such a marriage anymore. It seems you aren't sure about an affair and although most on this board would jump to that conclusion, based on my own it just might be all the stress of deployment and returning home that is causing your husband to respond and act this way. I guess you just have to decide if you want to wait it out and see if he comes around to wanting to work on the marriage or if you need to move on. I can't seem to decide what I want to do myself.

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Sorry you are going through the same thing. Remember - this life is not a dress rehersal. We only get one shot at this. I can't wait around for a man that tells me he doesn't love me. I know I am loved and attractive, I dont have time to wallow, cry and wait. He will need to come to me if he turns around. I told him that we can have Saturday date nights if he wishes. It is the only way I see that we can re-spark our passion. I can't make him love me and sometimes you have to set someone free for them to return. And they always do - in some way or fashion. It may not be to get back together - but they do come back - maybe as a friend. Good luck lit1022 - dont let anyone make yiou feel less than what you are - a wonderful loving person.

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Don't give up yet Sallyg. My husband was in Iraq twice and even though he was USAF and never went outside the wire, he still came home distracted and jumpy. Then the A happened and I was totally blindsided by it. And my WS didn't get any counseling when he got home. My WS is saying some of the exact things your spouse is saying. PTSD and they see that they aren't invincible and go a little nuts.


BS(me) 40
WH 40
D-day 10/03/2007
***Recovering and growing wiser and stronger.***
I was divorced 10/08/2008.

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Thanks for letting me know I am not alone. How can you handle the constant rejection and personal attacks. I don't know what I did to deserve this other than not recognize that we needed to work on our marriage and life, kids and work got in our way. He says it is too late and he won't try. I have to let him go. It hurts so much.

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My WS was just the opposite. He didn't say anything. He was very withdrawn into himself. I thought he was fine. I guess not. But some of the things he says are so fogspeak that he word for word has said some of the sentences that I've read about.

Sounds like both of our WS's need some intensive therapy.


BS(me) 40
WH 40
D-day 10/03/2007
***Recovering and growing wiser and stronger.***
I was divorced 10/08/2008.

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Sounds like we are on the same boat and we need to row for our lives right now sister! Remember - this is not us - they need to work on them right now. He will not even try right now. He is looking for that "passion" that "love" that he is missing. Although I have tried - he won't take it from me. That is probably why your man had an affair that you found out about. They are searching for something that they need to find. I think the war forced them to become dead emotionally to survive. Now, they are looking for life tenfold, or it could be that they want to continue in that dead mode and don't want to let us in - because we love them. When I try to touch him, no response. When he tries to kiss me, it is so dead that it is unreal. That is why I think he had an affair. I could be wrong - but he will not deny or admit. What has happened is that I have become his mother - not his lover. I need to let him go, make myself beautiful and happy. In time, he will either come back and see me as that attractive woman that he desires, or walk away. Either way, I have made myself strong and beautiful - for what or who ever comes next. Hey, we have been through one of the hardest times a human has ever had to face. Our love went to war, we cried, we prayed, we survived. We should be proud of what we did. You are awesome and I admire you. Thanks for being there for me - I feel that I am not alone. So many Army Wives are going through this and we can not talk about it. Nice to know you are there. Good Luck and let me know what happens.

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sallq & LA

My situation is somewhat different in that I am almost positive that my husband is not having an affair and he is about to deploy not just returning, but otherwise your situations sounds so familiar. He just decided one day he is done and nothing I do seems to even get through to him (is completly emtionally shut me out), less alone start to rebuild our marriage. The night he told me all this he was so cold and distance. This is coming from a man that has been the extact opposite the entire time I have known him. He wouldn't even give me a hug after telling me all this and basically destroying my life. Since then he has been less cold, but I wonder if he was just faking it till he left (left last week for training and then goes directly to Afganistan in February). I am so hurt and confused right now because the last few weeks he was doing things and saying things that I thought meant there was hope, but now he has been gone a week and haven't heard a word from him (right now he does have a cell phone). I don't know if I should continue to call, write, and continue supporting him or just let him go. He went from being a very unselfish man to extremely selfish and if I call him on it it will only work against our marriage. But I don't think I can go an entire year like this, just waiting till he gets home to see if he really moves out or not. I wish I could actually help you two, but it seems like all I have is my own questions. Thanks for at least letting me vent and get this out, I just am not having a good morning.

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