Alright. I called H @5 as DS was packed & ready to go based on the "plans" he & dad made. I did just what Mel said, calmly...

ME: "so DS says you want to see him?"
H: "yea"
ME: "OK, what did you have in mind?"
H: "What do you mean what'd I have in mind? <pause> I want them to come over, sleep over"
ME: "OK, tonight?" (Yea) "When were you planning to bring him home?"
H: "Well I got band practice so I'll drop him off around 4 tomorrow."
ME: "OK, that's fine. I'm working on putting together a schedule for visitation, we can do every-other weekend and..."
H: "WHAAAT?!? Every other weekend?"
ME: "Yea, and a day during the week"
H: "What's this every-other weekend? I can get them to school & back every day, so let's talk about 3 days a week or something"
ME: "I'm still working on it, I'll let you know"
H: "OK, well I got band practice on Thursdays so that won't work."
ME: "Uh huh"
H: "So DD isn't coming?"
ME: "Nope, I'll have DS ready at 5:30."
H: "OK, thanks"

Now, that's great he's "able" to get them to/from school, do I take him up on that? Or do I make things a little INconvenient for him, as in NOT let him see them as often as he wants? I was already the wife who, for 9 years, covered up this awful, secret, embarrassing life we sometime lived (the drunk fits) so please, help me NOT be the wife who plays the children as pawns. I SO don't want to go there.

DD doesn't want to see him. She's not ready to tell him why, but I don't know that she'd get in the truck w/him if he offered a ride to/from school anyway. She needs some meetings too. Until then, I support her & keep her talking. Remember, legally/biologically, there is no true tie so he is powerless when it comes to her. Though he's been her Daddy since she was 8mos old so legal/biological doesn't mean much to either of them. So far.

Plan B letter & visitation schedule next? I'll post it, but I guess I have to have it nailed by tomorrow @4...!

Then let him know you are agreeable to every other weekend and Wednesdays. Tell him you are sure he will agree that as little disruption to their lives as possible is beneficial right now. Tell him you know he is a good father and you know he wouldn't want to disrupt their lives any more than necessary to accommodate the adults problem.

Remember, whether he AGREES or not, you have to protect their best interest. He is PURE SELF WILL RUN RIOT, so their best interest will not be at the top of his list.

So Mel, in other words, YES, I'm making this a little INconvenient for him? Not playing them as pawns, but limiting the to-and-fro in their lives?

DD/11 walked DS/8 to school this morning, and picked him up afterward. I hate it, Hate it, HATE it that I am the mom who has now saddled an 11y/o girl with such responsibility. I feel as though I took that part of her childhood from her and that's not fair. However, I would be financially STUPID to sign either or both of them up for a paid before- or after-school program right now.

Every-other weekend & Wednesdays, that's it. OK. I'll post up my letter in a minute. You still think I should give it to him?

DS is gone. H honked outside & DS went out. I didn't see him, he didn't see me, no talk. That's good and that's horrible, at the same time. DD didn't go to door to see or talk to him.

UGH

I am also thinking that as volatile as he is, that it might not be best to HAND him the letter, but to deliver it to his apartment when he is not there. Or mail to his work.

In the letter I would specify that the kids are not to be exposed to any paramours.

What do you think is the best way to deliver the letter?

ooooooooh, I just that read that DS-11 is not his child? Where is his dad?

You are one tough chick!

I have no idea where this apartment is.

He's self (or, currently, UN?) employed.

You're worried there's an OW now?

I'm working on posting it. I don't think he's volatile, I think he's being cowardly!

DD/11 not biologically his.

HER dad is in FL, sees her maybe twice a year. Poor girl. My choice in men, so far, clearly sucks.

Then I would hand him the letter when he brings your son home, if that is the case.

Do you have an intermediary lined up? Because you won't be able to talk to him after you give him that letter.

I really wish you would try and get the visitation ironed out BEFORE you go dark. Unless he is just completely unreasonable, that will be just one less thing to deal with.

So, I am to understand that you DD does not want to see him? If he is her stepdad, I wouldn't make her see him.

THE LETTER SO FAR:

H-

It is with a heavy heart that I write you this letter. I am saddened by what has become of us - our friendship, our partnership, our marriage. This letter is written to you as a necessity. I'll explain:

The 11 yrs we spent together were filled with countless hugs, kisses, tears, winks and laughs. I have loved you every minute of every day we spent together.

I know I haven't been a perfect wife. I realize that both my inattentiveness and my obsessive tendencies drove a wedge into our relationship. I'm sorry. Please know I never wanted to hurt you or push you away. The pain of your drinking, smoking, and destructive behavior during our marriage has been unimaginable. Continued contact with you has the potential to destroy my love for you and I don't want that to happen.

It is because of this that I must insist we no longer contact each other until you are ready to stop drinking completely. Please respect this decision. In case of an emergency, or any necessary financial or kid-related matters, please contact my mom, and she will contact me. Once you are ready to stop drinking completely, please contact me, and I will be willing to discuss restoring our family and our marriage.

I am committed to a clean, sober, peaceful marriage with you. I believe we can build a relationship that is stronger and more fulfilling than we have ever experienced. As of today, I walk forward in life for myself and my kids, and I want you to walk with us. I love you.

She comes & goes with wanting to see him/not wanting to see him.

I won't make her. I worry that she is trying to appease me, so I keep her talking, I support, but do not direct.

I can iron out visitation/intermediary before handing him the letter, I am in no rush. He is going to try to "demand" more though. I will say what you said though, about avoiding disruption...

Thats good! Just take out the smoking thing!

Add a paragraph that says something like this:

I have attached a visitation schedule becuase I very much want you to see DS-8. I think, for now, there should be as little disruption as possible in his life, so i hope you will agree that he should be in his own bed on school nights. If you want to see him more often on weekends, evenings, I would be more than happy to try and do that. Please just have my mother check with me.

I would also expect that the same bills that you currently pay will continue to be paid.

H-

It is with a heavy heart that I write you this letter. I am saddened by what has become of us - our friendship, our partnership, our marriage. This letter is written to you as a necessity. I'll explain:

The 11 yrs we spent together were filled with countless hugs, kisses, tears, winks and laughs. I have loved you every minute of every day we spent together.

I know I haven't been a perfect wife. I realize that both my inattentiveness and my obsessive tendencies drove a wedge into our relationship. I'm sorry. Please know I never wanted to hurt you or push you away. The pain of your drinking and destructive behavior during our marriage has been unimaginable. Continued contact with you has the potential to destroy my love for you and I don't want that to happen.

It is because of this that I must insist we no longer contact each other until you are ready to stop drinking completely. Please respect this decision. In case of an emergency, or any necessary financial or kid-related matters, please contact my mom, and she will contact me. Once you are ready to stop drinking completely, please contact me, and I will be willing to discuss restoring our family and our marriage.

I've included a proposed visitation schedule because I want you to continue to see the kids. I think you'd agree there should be as little disruption as possible in their lives right now, so I'm sure you'll agree they should be home on school nights. If you want to see them more often, I will try to accomodate - please have my mom check with me. I also think it is only in their best interest that they aren't exposed to any drugs, alcohol, or other relationships you may be taking part in. As for our financial obligations, my expectation is that you will continue to contribute as you did before.

I am committed to a clean, sober, peaceful marriage with you. I believe we can build a relationship that is stronger and more fulfilling than we have ever experienced. As of today, I walk forward in life for myself and my kids, and I want you to walk with us. I love you.

ok, and this is what I want to talk to you about, Julie, becasue before you hand him that letter, you have to be prepared to STAY DARK and withstand his attempts to contact you.

I cannot emphasize the importance of this. If you tell him you are going dark and then you allow him to contact you, he will know you DON'T MEAN IT. And that is a DANGEROUS message to send to an alcoholic. An alcholic MUST maintain control over his enabler or his drinking is in jeopardy. He will not like losing control. He will not like being told he has to respect your boundaries. That will infuriate him because he views you as a POSSESSION.

You can expect him to do everything in his power to beat you down so he can get you back on the plantation so he does not have to change. Alcoholics are very manipulative, and unfortunately, they usually marry ppl who CAN be manipulated.

So, have a plan in place for when he:

1. calls

2. barges in the house

3. asks the kids to give you the phone

4. shows up drunk and raging on your doorstep

Be prepared and work out a plan beforehand.

I would not use the word "propose" because that indicates this is up for debate. IT IS NOT. If he has a problem with it, he can hire an attorney. You are not asking him to approve ANYTHING, you are TELLING HIM this is how it will be. He does not get a vote.

OK, this is what I want to talk to YOU about:

1. AM I stil his enabler? Because I didn't think I was, since he's moved out and possibly on, with a tramp, who knows? I thought I wasn't the enabler anymore. I also don't think he sees me as a possession - HE left on his own accord.
2. Yes he is manipulative, I know that, although I don't foresee him trying to contact me at all. Honestly? I foresee him actually drawing up divorce papers as a result of this. Maybe as a "back atcha" move, but still, that's what I predict he'll do.
3. I won't take his calls, and I won't have trouble getting the kids' cooperation w/this.
4. I'll change the locks. Grrr. I'll change the locks.
4a. But there's still stuff of his here - he'll break into the basement (while I'm not home, I'm confident) to get it out if I change the locks.
5. I don't think he'll show up, drunk or not, at my doorstep. Remember, we "one-up" each other. Showing up will not be on his agenda. IF he does I'll call the police, help him with that bottom-finding, but I don't see it. I think this letter could very well be the end-all.

We will see what happens, won't we? But just be prepared for every eventuality. I don't think he will be as hardheaded as you think once he sees you are no longer playing the game. That WORKED for him in the past, he will quickly see the game is over and he is no longer in charge.

Add a line in your letter about his possessions:

"please let mother know if you want to get anything from the house and I will make arrangements to get it to you. "

Hi julie,

I have company all weekend so I don't have much time...

Didn't you say your Dad was an alcoholic too? Does you mom have the necessary skills to handle your husband as your intermediary? I'm a little concerned about that.

He will now have a lot of freedom to drink/smoke. Will he use in front of the kids or while they are there? Will he pick them up high? I'd be worried about that.

What is the expected/proposed/hopeful outcome of a Plan B letter? I'm serious - you've been around - in a perfect world, what will his response be?

I'm not asking you to predict the future or help me to worry about what happens next. What I'm asking you, as I've misplaced SAA somewhere around here, is what might we hope for the outcome of this letter to be?

You & I see & know 2 different scenarios. I think he'll laugh, crumble it up, and call the kids to arrange with THEM that he'll take them to school. And invite some chick whose number he got at the bar over...to HIS APARTMENT.

Will you please share with me?